Lurker

My God, maybe it depends on your definition of what the meaning of the word 'is' is... http://10.95.4.165:15871/cgi-bin/blockpage.cgi?ws-session=738099866

The title of this post sounds like a Russ Brandon sales pitch...

Thank God for that. TSW would have had to shut down for maintenance if I hadn't corrected my group think...

OK, chief. "by all most other measures" Does that make you feel more secure now?

So, "You can not argue in good faith that there are no measures in which Josh Allen is superior to Josh Rosen." Right? Sure there are measures where I think Rosen is superior to Allen. I provided plenty. And I said the measures where Allen is superior to Rosen don't matter as much to me given the best QBs tend to be surgeons, not blacksmiths. So what's your point?

That doesn't make a bit of sense...use your words, akm0404

Sure I can, since I personally value the assets that Rosen brings to the table (reading defenses, seeing the open receiver, good enough movement skills, better than average vision/anticipation/ball placement) than the characteristics you list. BTW, Rosen has a 70% completion rate on deep balls going against pro-style defenses and PAC-12 DBs, which is about 30 points more than Allen had going against the future insurance salesmen playing for Mountain West teams...

This has to be Beane's deal breaker on Rosen. By all other measures, it's not a close contest. But it bugs me that we always have to give up skill-for-brawn in Buffalo. I'd like to find a QB that calmly scan the field, look off safeties, see the open receiver rather than throw into coverage--do the things that great QBs do--rather than plumbers and cast offs and failed draft picks who stumble, bumble and slide through town every 3-4 years...

No coaching staff studies the failures of past regimes. These guys are ego-driven Alpha males who only charge forward, using their own experiences as road maps. History is for historians and fans...

Gotta sit him or he'll become a clone of E.J. Manuel. Transitioning from the Mountain West Conference to the NFL for a guy who has to rebuild his mechanics? No way the kid can succeed in year one of that scenario. All you'll get is the NFL version of the QB who was running for his life at Montana. Until they have the tools to help him succeed (competent O-line, competent WRs, competent QB coaching), let AJ take a licking and hopefully keep on ticking...

Same results!

Well, a great A-hole is better than a colostomy bag, IMO. Some of the greatest QBs were not the 'best buds' type guys we WNY's are known to love. But NFL players will follow them if they can see the results on the field. It's a rough, bottom line business, not a sing-along society...

And Sammy Baugh's Year Age Tm Pos No. G GS QBrec Cmp Att Cmp% Yds TD TD% Int Int% Lng Y/A AY/A Y/C Y/G Rate Sk Yds NY/A ANY/A Sk% 4QC GWD AV Career 165 83 11-10-0 1693 2995 56.5 21886 187 6.2 203 6.8 86 7.3 5.5 12.9 132.6 72.2 1 2 1937+ 23 WAS TB 11 5 81 171 47.4 1127 8 4.7 14 8.2 59 6.6 3.8 13.9 102.5 50.5 1938* 24 WAS TB 9 3 63 128 49.2 853 5 3.9 11 8.6 60 6.7 3.6 13.5 94.8 48.1 0 0 1939* 25 WAS tb 9 1 53 96 55.2 518 6 6.3 9 9.4 44 5.4 2.4 9.8 57.6 52.3 0 0 1940*+ 26 WAS TB 11 11 111 177 62.7 1367 12 6.8 10 5.6 81 7.7 6.5 12.3 124.3 85.6 1941* 27 WAS TB 11 1 106 193 54.9 1236 10 5.2 19 9.8 55 6.4 3.0 11.7 112.4 52.2 0 0 1942*+ 28 WAS TB 11 8 132 225 58.7 1524 16 7.1 11 4.9 53 6.8 6.0 11.5 138.5 82.5 1943+ 29 WAS TB 10 7 133 239 55.6 1754 23 9.6 19 7.9 72 7.3 5.7 13.2 175.4 78.0 1944 30 WAS qb 8 4 82 146 56.2 849 4 2.7 8 5.5 71 5.8 3.9 10.4 106.1 59.4 0 0 1945 31 WAS QB 8 8 128 182 70.3 1669 11 6.0 4 2.2 70 9.2 9.4 13.0 208.6 109.9 1946 32 WAS QB 11 2 87 161 54.0 1163 8 5.0 17 10.6 51 7.2 3.5 13.4 105.7 54.2 0 0 1947 33 WAS QB 12 1 210 354 59.3 2938 25 7.1 15 4.2 74 8.3 7.8 14.0 244.8 92.0 0 0 1948 34 WAS QB 12 3 185 315 58.7 2599 22 7.0 23 7.3 86 8.3 6.4 14.0 216.6 78.3 0 0 1949 35 WAS QB 12 8 145 255 56.9 1903 18 7.1 14 5.5 76 7.5 6.4 13.1 158.6 81.2 0 0 1950 36 WAS QB 33 11 7 3-4-0 90 166 54.2 1130 10 6.0 11 6.6 56 6.8 5.0 12.6 102.7 68.1 1951* 37 WAS QB 33 12 9 5-4-0 67 154 43.5 1104 7 4.5 17 11.0 53 7.2 3.1 16.5 92.0 43.8 1 2 1952 38 WAS qb 33 7 5 3-2-0 20 33 60.6 152 2 6.1 1 3.0 20 4.6 4.5 7.6 21.7 79.4

Wow! Better check my brain at the gates of OBD, huh? Well, I guess since so many fans do that exact thing, what good is independent reasoning Join the party. Break out the flaming tables...

The Bills' core competency....

https://www.google.com/search?q=armatures&rlz=1CAACAG_enUS598US598&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwixztiYtdraAhWxtVkKHTDOAdgQ_AUICygC&biw=1242&bih=536 Which one is Allen throwing to?

Agreed. I was enjoying it as well until that point. Since accuracy is not measured, you can't just say it trumps completion percentage. How do you verify that statement without data? Yes, it intuitively makes sense, but show me how accurate Allen is vs other QBs. You can't, since no one collects the data. Completion percentage , while a dirty / inexact measure, does get measured and is historically correlated with better success...

They see Cam. Big Ben is much more of a pocket passer than Allen...

The relevance of that article is the links it aggregates. Not the writer's opinion. The data / stats collectively are horrondous... Here's some more "fun' video: https://www.theringer.com/nfl/2018/1/26/16932920/josh-allen-wyoming-quarterback-hype-nfl-draft (Love the Senior Bowl drill video vs. Mayfield )

No offense, but Palmer is being paid by Allen as his 'consultant.'.. Read this article and tell me you're comfortable with the pick: https://www.theringer.com/nfl/2018/4/25/17277580/draft-qb-thoughts-baker-mayfield-lamar-jackson-josh-allen

This would be a fun conversation to listen in on.... https://www.seccountry.com/alabama/josh-allen-old-tweets-katherine-webb

LOL! You'll enjoy this, then... http://www.nfl.com/draft/2013/profiles/ej-manuel?id=2539228

I will do likewise. But I also like to do my own due dilligence and spent the past month watching as much video of these prospects as I could. Now, that's like saying I know physics like the late- Stephen Hawking because I read one of his books. But 50-years of watching and going to NFL games does give you some idea of what to look for--and I frankly don't see enough intangibles here (reading defenses, awareness of pre snap coverages, looking off safties, not staring down receivers, throwing guys open) to feel Allen's the guy. Beane and Company do. So into the breach I'll follow. But I'll be looking over my shoulder a lot for the accident waiting to happen...

And IMO, you're speaking in just as big absolutes as the folks who don't like the pick. No one knows with certainty. But probabilities and history show that players who have desireable traits, experience and abilities when they are picked--and don't have to be "fixed" or re-molded into something new--have had more success than those, such as Allen, who are just a big piece of clay. The NFL junk heap is littered with guy's who have potential. Very few coaching staffs have the ability/time to overcome player limitations, no matter how great of "teachers" they think they are...

https://www.theringer.com/nfl/2018/4/26/17288362/2018-draft-buffalo-bills-trade-josh-allen-tampa-bay-buccaneers