Fan in Chicago

Au contraire, marginal cost of taking out 1 ppm of sulfur increases dramatically the lower the end spec. It was okay until 500 ppm diesel but getting it to 50 ppm and lower is much much harder. Add to this another complexity - this product has to be sent through existing pipelines which have been used for high sulfur stuff for decades. These products pick up sulfur along the way and what started off as 50 ppm at the refinery can be well above that level at the back end. So to compensate, either build new pristine pipes (expensive), clean up the existing pipes (too much opportunity cost of an idles pipeline) or produce lower than required spec product (see first sentence).

Whoa Nelly ! As CTM said, the fuel efficiency craze was a result of very high gas prices (higher than today in real dollars). I kind of agree that mandating a certain average fleet spec for mpg may help but that only drives companies to change the balance between SUVs and hybrids for example. This issue is very complex and I am not sure anyone has done a full study yet. But think about it this way, not knowing the number of miles driven by vehicle class, there is no sure way of reducing gasoline consumption by mandating a fleet mpg spec. If Toyota produces one hybrid Prius with mpg =60 and one highlander with mpg =20,they get an average fleet mpg of 40. But if the Highlander is driven for 100 miles a day and the Prius only 10, real weighted mpg = 21.3 What have we achieved ? I agree with emission specs which happen primarily due to govt. mandates so no arguments there. Lower octane ? What are you talking about ? When lead was taken out, the refining industry had to re-adjust their production to get equivalent octane without TEL (tetra ethyl lead ?). Also car manufacturers changed their compression ratios to make cars efficient without lead (good anti-knock properties). But this was also an emissions play and not a mpg play. Even today, fuel specifications are getting more stringent with diesel trending to 50 ppm sulfur and gasoline that may end up with 10 ppm sulfur but this is what refineries have to do to make these ultra low polluting fuels. This has nothing to do with conserving fuel, which will continue to be driven by the overall state of the economy and the supply-demand balance of oil-derived products.

So you think it is possible for the car makers to make Humvees, Ford Explorers, Toyota Landcruisers to give 35+ mpg, if the adminstration told them to ?

Muuuauuuuuuuuuuaaaahhhhhhhhaaaaa hhhhaaaaaaa Maybe he is still listening to tapes of statements by members of our stellar defensive unit from Sept. 12th.

You would have to set up a financial model for the revenues, costs, profits etc. and see how that would change based on the team's performance. Contrary to popular opinion here, I think the stock would be fairly healthy now because the value of a stock is based on the discounted cash flow from future operations. So if the potential to do well in the future exists, the stock should do very well. If we were on a downturn or had way too many question marks regarding personnel and coaching, the stock would be discounted. But I think it will take somebody who does finance for a living (not me) to set this model up and then it would be re-calculated every day. Example, if TKO gets injured the stock takes a small hit based on how serious that injury is and how the teams fortunes would change based on the level of severity.

It would be a fair comparison if JP had started last year (for a full year). Can you imagine what this board would have been like if JP was the starter last year and DB backing him up ? {uncontrollable scary shivering smiley}

But then again .. maybe it will work.

I agree with (1). We tried to rationalize his departure but it is hurting us more than we bargained for. I am guessing PW isn't helping Minn much which means both teams ended up poorer. Don't agree with (2). I think JP will be fine once he finds his bearings like Carson Palmer (as others have already pointed out). I never expected him to have a Ben R season especially with this OL I would add that our OL is also changed from last year and needs time to gel. I think Duke will be starting pretty soon, probably at Center. We just need to finish the first half at 4-4.

Isn't that the truth ? He was supposed not to gift games away which he is doing (1 INT, don't mention the 'almost interceptions). D was supposed to bail him out and score with some turnovers which they are not doing. ST was supposed to help the D which is not happening. Yes they are competent, RL has kicked better but no punt/kickoff returns for TDs, no consistent punting. IN summary, we expected him to struggle and the other facets were supposed to cover for that.

Simon, sir, I think I have a new person to respect on this board after Lori. Your preview was very good and this sanity inducing post made me sit up and put things in perspective. Only things I would add are that compared to last year at this time: -ve: we now have a few injured players on defense +ve: Rian Lindell appears more reliable -ve: ST play has dropped off +ve: We will get Parrish into the line up in a couple of weeks +ve: While JP's accuracy is off, he is not making bone headed decisions Let us see how the season plays out. At the beginning of the season, I had said that if we go 4-4, we will then go 6-2 and squeak into the playoffs. Yes, I know the second half of the season is really tough but I believe if we start hitting our stride that this stretch will show us how ready we are for the playoffs.

Does that mean he will have a slump in the next game ? Something about this 'needing motivation' just does not feel right.

I wish that being a starter on an NFL team is motivation enough for a player. Why does it take a public flogging to play like a star when he should be playing hard every game ? This is not directed at WM but every player that goes out with 'something to prove'.

Actually I am getting a bit tired more by people repeating the same assertions no matter how many times people (me) post evidence to the contrary. But, seriously, if it appears that I am on a crusade and it is getting obnoxious, I will back off.

Egads - that was my post # 666. Maybe I am helping the devil after all with posts like this that support the oil industry

Pipelines carrying products out of the gulf states started shutting down on Wednesday, largest refinery shut down Thursday morning. Also, it is possible people are panic buying causing a sudden spike in demand prior to the actual supply crunch.

In economics, that is called elasticity of demand - percent change in demand per percent change in price. Gasoline and cigarettes are extremely price inelastic which is why it takes a lot of price change to reduce demand of gasoline and also why cigs get taxed like crazy.

I am sure JP will lose his marbles if he read this board. Talk about messing with a young QB's head! He will swing from considering himself the second coming of Favre to Ryan Leaf in two clicks.

Hey cool, we can lose the next one too then !

Let me try an analogy - a tad weak but let us see if it works. Say you are one of three network admins hired in the early 90s by a company in the middle of Iceland, where no computer jock wants to go work. Over the years, the company did very well and kept increasing the size and complexity of the network. Software got upgraded and you three did well to keep up. In the late 90s, one of the three left and you two were left to handle duties but it was okay as your productivity increased. Come 2004, Microsoft started major upgrades to their systems and you two started working 14-16 hours a day compared to 12 hours before. You are taxed, start falling sick but keep working hard anyway. Come 2005, company gets a huge new contract and network traffic continued to increase along with demands on your time. Now in summer, the other programmer gets cancer and goes on a 3 month treatment while also using all the vacation he never took. You are the only one left. You go to your boss and ask to be paid twice as much. he has to pay you as he has no other option. in a nutshell that is what is happening. Network = gasoline demand, network administrators = refineries, cancer = katrina/rita (sorry), you = oil company It is supply/demand dude. Please don't equate it to gouging as the reason you ask for the double pay is to compensate for the 16 hours you are putting in and the fact that the boss does not have a choice.

I don't particularly care if any one person has a monster game as long as we win. I am nervous to say the least. Blow-out or squeaker, a Win is all that we need.

Just for kicks, I pulled up Brett Favre's initial career stats as JP is considered as having similar potential to him. PASSING Year Team G GS Att Comp Pct Yards YPA Lg TD Int Tkld 20+ 40+ Rate 1991 Atlanta Falcons 2 0 4 0 0.0 0 0.00 0 0 2 1/11 0 0 0.0 1992 Green Bay Packers 15 13 471 302 64.1 3227 6.85 76 18 13 34/208 30 9 85.3 1993 Green Bay Packers 16 16 522 318 60.9 3303 6.33 66 19 24 30/199 37 5 72.2 1994 Green Bay Packers 16 16 582 363 62.4 3882 6.67 49 33 14 31/188 44 4 90.7 http://www.nfl.com/players/playerpage/1028 He did very well in his first season with the Packers and took off after his third. I do not count his year with Atlanta. So, the first year with the Pack would be a safe yardstick to measure JP with. It goes without saying that if JP comes even 75% of what favre achieved, we will be fine as Favre did not have much of a defense to support him (no stats to support this, but just memory). favre actually suffered a slump in 1993 as he fell from TD-INt-rating of 18-13-85.3 to 19-24-72.2. Not sure where I am going with this, but it is useful to put JP's performance this year in perspective. Not every QB will be a Ben R.

That may save you a few bucks this week, but the combined effect of Katrina and Rita will continue to cause supply disruptions through the end of the year.

Apart from the human and property destruction that this Cat 5 hurricane may cause, let me pre-warn everyone here about another disastrous effect. Most people are already worried that gas prices may be affected if the hurricane really hits the Houston area. But I don't know if anyone understands the magnitude. Katrina hit an area where about 10-15% of crude oil is processed into gasoline etc. The Gulf coast capacity is about 40% of the national total !!! Imagine if refineries get hit there. I would venture $4-$5 gasoline if the worst happens. Also, there are oil and gas platforms there in the sea which, if idled, will severely damage the crude and natural gas supply for months. Ofcourse if the refineries are down also, you won't need that much crude oil. But, in summary, be warned of an impending calamity for transportation fuels for much of this year.

Being politically correct I see ?

Interesting observations. JP - part of his growing up will be off the field and how much he lets things like other peoples opinions affect his play. I want Wyche to coach him about these aspects also. Much as I hate the media, this is something he has to live with. MM - I also like the way he is handling issues. We are not privy to his internal dealings with players. But part of being a coach has to be a part-time psychologist. During the Chicago Bulls' run in the 90s, the coach Phil Jackson was known to use these techniques to keep his players motivated and sharp. I sure hope he is using such techniques with WM and JP. WM - I do not sense this discontent though I have not seen the pouting after Peters touchdown. In any case, discontent is not bad unless it translates to his quality on the field. Time will tell, but maybe having TH around may have been motivation for him and now he knows MM cannot replace him with anyone this season. I surely hope that issue, if any, gets resolved soon.