SectionC3

Wrong. Both sides can be in the wrong. The point is that all of this nonsense has to stop. And stopping it means stopping all of it. Including the types of BS that are quotes at the outset of this thread.

This can go to an extreme. Do I trust the elevator guy with the MAGA hat to properly install the elevator in my building? A fair question. At some point all of this suspicion and nonsense and blame game has to stop. Want some truth? Trump is an abomination. A pathological liar. People on the left feel (rightfully) like he can't be trusted. People on the right defend his blatant lies and mistruths, which causes people on the left extraordinary frustration and to question their intellectual integrity, character, and honesty. Then, people on the right have, in many instances, raised fair and legitimate points about, for example, a variety of cultural issues and security issues. I'll say that, taking the border wall out of the picture, the right has been correct about border security, and about taking a tough stance with China. But then the left lumps the right together and calls them all racist, Nazi, etc. Some of the frustration of the left--"the China virus"--is warranted. However, I understand the frustration of the right in that respect. Of course, the right is not shy about calling people commies, and hate-filled, and pedos, etc. And so we can keep going down this path of blaming each other, and having hurt feelings, and engaging in inflammatory rhetoric that both sides rightfully find frustrating or insulting. Or we can all knock it off and try to be more respectful and figure this thing out before somebody else is killed for expressing a viewpoint. Here's another hard truth that doesn't make me a commie or a pedo or whatever. Trump is not the man for the moment. People on the right want certain social changes and security improvements? Maybe find somebody with similar positions who isn't such a divisive, selfish, inept leader and you'll really start to make some progress. I don't doubt that for a second. I also don't think that Trump is capable of unifying anything or anyone. That's just the reality of it. He's a divider. Always has been, always will be. Nothing changes until the "old" crowd - Trump, the Clintons, Biden, Pelosi, Schumer, and Mike Johnson - all are off the stage. The sooner the better, and hopefully we can find some sense of normal.

That describes your rhetoric. As far as the insults go, look in the mirror. "Lowest form of life" seems to be something you said just this morning. You are part of the problem. If Simon's going to do something, he ought to take a look at what you write. Again, Big Blitz is part of the problem.

But we don't here. So tone it down. Precisely the sort of rhetoric that has to stop. "You people remain the absolute lowest forms of life on earth." Prone to hyperbole much? Knock it off. You're part of the problem. That's the point. Two-tiered economy. Regular unskilled labor has a problem right now.

There’s some truth to this but it’s hardly a perfect analogy.

Doesn’t rule out two tiered economy. Skilled labor will get paid. Unskilled labor, probably not so much based on recent jobs report. It’s gonna get tight for them.

I don’t wanna get into speculation, particularly when there is a victim to be mourned. But I will say that something about this strikes me as very strange and certainly very deliberate, if not professional. Thomas Crooks and Sirhan this is not. My guess is two tiered economy. Agreed.

We share the frustration with the lazy. I see it as a “thousand pound sisters” problem. I have a lot of contempt for that. No, you didn’t read it properly. He said natural born.

So a naturalized citizen who paid taxes doesn’t get the net? And what about kids, citizens or otherwise?.

It’s turning the same “pedo” stuff that MAGA has tossed around toward people like me (and, in real life, me) back toward MAGA. It’s a form of satire. If you can’t understand that, then I can’t help you,

Who is “they?” Also, BPS teachers are on the low end of public school pay scale. But I agree that those who want respect must earn it and that the fights, etc. have no place in school or anywhere else.

But Im a pedo or evil? This is exactly why the rhetoric has to be toned down on both sides. School choice (vouchers) isn’t a great solution because it threatens the integrity of the public school system. Same logic applies to rural America. We just agree to disagree there.

Nobody said anything along the lines of what you’re saying. The point is that kid on grape st deserves a good school, and good transportation to and from school, and maybe a meal or two to help concentrate at school, and a safe school, so he can have an equal shot. The same applies to Johnny Rural, and nobody has said (or acted, for that matter) differently. Get bad grades, or get a RAP record? Not my problem. But they all - grape st and rural America - deserve a fair shot.

So you agree that, to some extent, we have to level the field at least at an early stage to give that kid on Grape St. a fair shot. What he does with it is on him. Work apparently is slow these days. I couldn’t resist. Back to no more joking around now.

Agreed. Drugs, lazy, obese, hopelessness. It’s not a racial issue at all. As much white as anything else.

Then prove it. Where is all of this free stuff? And, while we’re at it, why do I subsidize the thousand pound sisters? We should prioritize those who are here (citizens and legals). Things are way too expensive (electricity and food), and nobody’s doing a damn thing about it. But we also can’t be angry about every dime - you about immigrant kids, me about the thousand pound sisters. Now, if it turns out that an inordinate amount of money is spent on free “this and that” for illegals, then im with you all day. But let’s see what the numbers say and take it from there. Offer rejected, to your likely chagrin. And again, you’re part of the problem when you paint so broadly.

This is precisely the type of broad based crap talk that has to end.

It’s not a level field. It just isn’t. Contrast education in BPS with education in Clarence. At some point the leveling has to stop - I had this conversation at length on law school, and there it obviously ends at the bar exam - but we are kidding ourselves if we think the kid on Grape St. starts out the same as the kid in Spaulding Lake.

We have to prioritize the people who were here first. Agreed. I think a lot of the immigration issue is fear mongering, though. How many and how much is the question. It’s probably not nearly the extent to which you think. on the flip side, I don’t want to hear about unemployment among low educated whites if we’re yanking people off of roofs and out of fields and deporting them. That part of the working class is going to have to do the jobs—-and eat the inflation — opened and caused by an immigration policy that avoids amnesty and that removes workers from our economy. that, I note, is different from border security. I am against a wall but 100% for a better managed border and a better managed immigration process.

I get where you’re coming from. It’s why people are pissed off and the working class voted against its own financial interest. All you’ve done is work. You’re not the problem. You’re the solution. You should be respected, and treated fairly. We gotta give people an equal shot in this country - I don’t think anyone disputes that. But we can’t unlevel the field or cure historical racism and sexism with more racism and more sexism. That is not the way.

Agreed. One of the things that pisses me off about young entitled (mostly white) people. I worked my ass off to get where I am. Scrimped, saved, invested, did the stuff nobody else wants to do. And when I see these slovenly entitled little ***** using mommy and daddy’s money for that house or this car and then blaming others for their “plight” it really rubs me the wrong way.

Completely agree on the last line. It’s an interesting point in the context of this dialogue. I listened to what Kirk said about trans mass shootings before he was murdered. I agree with his point that there are too many trans mass shooters. One is too many, and there are more than one. I also understand why that point pisses some people off because it lacks the nuance that trans people probably are not over represented as mass shooters and can be taken to paint that group with a broad brush (as overrepresented mass shooters). This is not to say that the absence of nuance in any way justifies this heinous violence. I just … noticed it as sort of emblematic of why people don’t listen to each other and why we have this struggle with reasonable dialogue in this country today. We all have to listen better and respect each other more.

At this point it’s responsible journalism. Do we know whether the person who commuted this murder actually believes those things, or whether the murderer is trying to mislead? I acknowledge that the former is likelier. But it’s fair to wait on the characterization until more is known.

Yeah I agree. This was no rookie. It was a well-planned operation. I hope the person is caught and brought to swift justice. Let them rot in prison for the rest of their natural life. I have no idea how big the blue sky thing is. This website is the extent of my social media involvement. My point remains - there’s jerks on both sides. I agree it’s sad. And it has to stop or this country is going to fracture.

How big is the segment? One can say the same thing about J6. A segment of the population that votes right supported that. So how about this - we all tone it down and stop painting with a broad brush. We either use this heinous act as an inflection point to all be better, or we let it amplify the vitriol and deepen the divides. The choice is ours.