Rob....PLEASE go back and read my posts before the thread descended into lunacy. I am against poor ettiquette by other cyclists as much as the next guy. I hate it. Why? Becuase its dangerous and becuase its continues this antagonistic relationship between cyclist and driver. I tried to explain this and I tried to be reasonable about it. But for some reason, there are a lot of people in this discussion, lead by Jim, who seem to think that its an "all or none" approach. That me admitting I go through lights slowly after checking that the intersection is clear at 6AM with no traffic around is the moral equivalent as blowing through them at full speed at 6PM during rush hour. I tried to be cool and explain my position but it went nowhere. So now we are here in this discussion. And thats what Im "outraged" about. That no matter how hard I tried to be reasonable and empathetic and explain the mindset of a cyclist and what we go through when out on the road, it was met with "!@#$ you, youre just another one of those smug !@#$s, who think youre above the law and Im gonna run you down!!!!!" Then that was coupled with the testimony after testimony of you guys who you were so terribly inconvenienced every time you ran across a group of people riding on a Sunday AM. As if some great sin was committed against you. I mean...come on. If you want to have this discussion, fine. But be fair about it.