bills_fan

Don't we know that...*cough* Wide Right *cough*

FFS - You're right, I should clarify, PW faced most of the doubles in 04, and yes many of them were chips, but it still allowed the LB/S to fill the hole quicker and PW actually succeeded in slowing down the blockers on several occassions. SA has been getting chipped on running plays in 05, tho not at the rate that PW was getting blocked. As for the actual plays, and remember I reviewed 3 games from 04... Versus Seattle, In the first half PW was on the field for all 1st down plays and any 2nd down plays where Sea had less than 6 yards to go for a first. He rarely played on 3rd down, 1 3rd and short play. PW rarely played the second half against Seattle (we were up 24-3) and only came in as part of a basic rotation on 1st down. When he did play with the limited snaps, he was effective, recovering a fumble and stopping Alexander once. Versus NYJ, PW played most first and second downs. Again, 6 yards was the cut. RE was brought in on 3rd downs and 2nd and short. Versus Baltimore, PW played more of the game than I have ever seen. Remember our D held Bal to 160 Total Yards, PW was in on 1,2,3 downs and rarely was spelled. He missed 2 1st down plays and 3 2nd down plays the entire game. This could be the reason Lewis got us by the 4th quarter, where he had most of his yards. Boller didn't complete a pass in the 2nd half and PW helped shut down the run till the bitter end. I did not have a chance to review the Miami game, where Edwards played in the base. Essentially RE was part of our nickel and dime D's last year. After the Miami game, PW was the guy who was sent to the bench so Sam could play on 3rd down. It worked out pretty well. Finally, Merlin, check out the link for Watson, a huge run-stuffing DT out of Michigan.

Unfortunately, they were the ones I could get. I would love to review the Pitt game. As far as a possible solution goes, and I know that we need OL bad (and I am one of the biggest OL preachers around), but... http://football.about.com/od/nationalfootb.../gabewatson.htm THis guy would solve the problem. From the reviews...I'm thinking a young Ted Washington. Any Michigan guys want to shed some light on this guy?

Scary thing is...if we had Phat Pat, we could realistically have beaten the Falcons and the Saints, being 5-2 and now be looking at a game in Foxboro.

You guys could be right, tho I thought it was the Miami game, where Sam was benched for the 2nd half. Now, Sam may have had a point...he's a penetrator, he does that very well. Asking him to be a stay-at-home DT is not playing to his strength, which is what we always accuse the coaches of fugging up. I know that Fletcher has been banged up and Milloy is not 100%, but I can't imagine that these guys fell off so fast. Its more likely that the opposing OL are blocking them b/c RE/TA are being handled in one-on-one matchups. At least thats what the TB (also with Crowellwhen he replaced Fletcher) & AtL games showed. The solution is to find a run-plugger in the offseason. For now, maybe play more of a containment type D, where all 4 down lineman hold up the OL at the LOS and allow the LBs to fire thru the gaps, sort of a half run-blitz. But that leaves us vulnerable in many other areas...play action fakes in the flats, screens etc. that would go for big gains.

GG, I don't know what scheme Minny is playing. I haven't seen them all year. I just know that PW was the right player for our system and the way we played last year. Running the same system with the only difference being RE (thats why I only looked at TB and Atl, wanted to see us with TKO), yielded vastly different results. The essential reason was the xtra blocker PW tied up while still maintaining his ground.

Or a very expensive FA signing. Its just a bit depressing that we go into this offseason with our biggest priorities being run stuffing DT and LT, when last year our biggest losses were run stuffing DT and LT. I know. But Sam and Phat Pat complemented each other's styles very well. Edwards, plays very similar to Sam (tho not as good obviously) and isn't suited to Phat Pat's role. I'd like to get a hold of the Pitt game tape to break it down as to why they were able to run against us even with PW. PW was a monster in that game. My hypothesis is that one of 2 things happened....1 - PW freelanced and tried to penetrate and threw the scheme off (unlikely) or 2- The LBs and Milloy were a step slow filling the hole after a long year against fresher Pitts back-ups (more likely).

I was a bit bored and was able to get tapes of 3 games from the 04 season and contrast them with some games in the 05 season, to try and get a handle on what we did differently in our run D. This is what I found out... I contrasted these games from 04 (the Seattle game where we held Alexander to 39 yds, the Jets game in Buffalo, held Martin to 67 yards, and the Baltimore game, Lewis (not jamal) hit us for 89 yards on 21 carries) with the Atlanta game (1st half) and the TB game. I picked these games from 05 because I wanted to see how we were doing with TKO. The Bills scheme in 04 was predicated upon forcing the RB to run at Phat Pat, and pick a lane to either side of him. Essentially the DEs rushed upfield and established containment outside. Sam penetrated the backfield, trying to force the RB to cut towards PW. PW, on damn near every play was doubled, but he held his ground. That created three gaps for the RB to rush through...the spot Sam vacated, and on either side of PW. TKO, Fletcher and Milloy generally filled the gaps nicely, making the tackle and not allowing the RB any room to move. Essentially our LBs & Milloy were the 3rd line of defense against the run. First the DEs did a very nice job of holding outside containment and not letting the RB bust it outside. Then Sam would shoot a gap and guess trying to make the tackle. This is the essence of Sam's game, penetration, and he is very good at it. This strategy worked well as if Sam guessed wrong, PW was able to hold his ground and force the RB to make a split second decision and try a gap, where a LB or Milloy was waiting. It was quite an effective scheme. Now, contrast that with the 05 Bills. Basically, everything is the same except that Edwards or Anderson are not commanding a double team. Sam has generally been beating the double team he is commanding, but RE or TA is being blocked 1 on 1. That leaves the opposing C, usually, to take on a LB in the gap. Cadillac and Dunn/Duckett simply followed the C, who sealed off the gap leading to big gains. Our LBs, then tried to compensate by not filling the gap but heading up field, guessing where the RB is, trying to make a play. This is the infamous "losing gap responsibilities" that Gray spoke of. The problem is that the gap is larger due to RE or TA being moved off the ball (didn't happen too often) but neither were ever doubled, which happened all the time with PW last year. Also RE is more of a penetrater and not a stay-at-home lane clogger. The conclusion I drew from this is that Pat Williams was the keystone in which our run D was built on. The necessity for him to be doubled on 1st and 2nd down, allowed us to do more as far as filling the gaps to stop the run. Essentially the LBs had either a clear lane or more time (due to the frequent chip blocks on PW that I saw) to fill the gap before the blocking and RB got to the hole. Essentially, even tho PW played on only 60% of the defensive plays, his role was huge. He occupied two blockers enabling our LB/Milloy or Sam to make the play almost unimpeded. Then he came off the field on 2nd and long or 3rd down and Edwards, more of a penetrater, rushed the passer. For us to get back to being successful stopping the run, we NEED a guy to clog the lane and maintain his position. It also won't hurt if he draws double teams. Unfortunately, I don't know too many of those type of guys in the league. We need a vet, probably signed as a FA because he needs a rep to draw double teams, who can clog the lane. Is Big Ted available?

Actually, when healthy, Villy can play. I'd put Geisinger in for Gandy. Gandu is a backup T, nothing more. Anderson is a fat tub of goo. Teague is awful. LT - Peters LG - Geisinger C - Preston RG - Villy RT - MW Lets see what we have over the next 8 games. Play JP, Parrish, Evans etc. This may actually be done over the bye.

Pass that schitt, man!! While I admire your optimism, since 2002 I have never felt worse going into a game than this one. The Bills have absolutely no chance to win on Sunday in Foxboro. That sentence was very difficult to type, as I have not felt that way since the 3-13 year of 01, and at least we were in an acknowledged rebuilding stage. Now, I think TD & Co. are simply delusional in thinking this team has any chance at all. The problems on this team run deep and will take years to correct. Its a damn shame that we are entering a second rebuilding phase under TD, after having not been built the first time.

Thats exactly the team I want the Bills to be.

You may be right. But we'll never know unless we at least work him out.

Chargers....hmmmm.....AJ Smith, used to be our guy back when we had a good team.

Thats one more win in Foxboro than TD's teams have. Oh yeah, that SD team was the team assembled by those guys who know nothing about football...the late John Butler & AJ Smith. Glad we don't have those guys in our front office.

Point taken.

Yes, back in July. Now its October and the guy isn't working yet. Maybe he'd take a pro-rated deal. Doesn't hurt to ask, and then announce that we spoke with him. At least it would give the appearance of trying.

But, but, but...they're all his players (except EM), coaches and organization. He's the chef that put this witches brew together. Sorry, his fault this team is where it is right now. Noone else's. The buck stops with the President/GM and noone else.

Gerald Warren, Courtney Brown, Ekuban etc. sure changed their attitudes in a hurry when they became Broncos. Point is, what we have is not working. I have no idea if Verba would work out with the Bills, you'd think the guy would want to try and salvage his career. Maybe it works out, maybe it doesn't...but at least try. Send the message that you're pissed and will try anything to help out the team. This is not cutting Bobby Shaw, but the players & fans need to know you're trying or else this ship is going down fast.

Precious!!

Give the guy a pro-rated contract for 9 games and see how he does. Do we have anything to lose?

Does TD count in that mix?

Ross Verba ever sign with anyone?

Did we ever consider requiring a Breathalyzer before permitting posting?

Nor, apparently, is it good enough for TD.

I was thinking about this exact point on Sunday. We blew it. Again. Td was wowed by Greggo's lists & passed on Fox and Lewis. Then we get down to 3 coaches, one of whom was a good HC for 5+ years with a team that had no front office, another who won 5, yes, five SBs (with Parcells and Belicheck) two of the coaches in NFL history, and a guy who was OC for a mediocre offense for 3 years and earned the nickname "wicky-wacky" Mularkey because of his penchant for falling in love with trick plays. Who does TD pick... Yes, for whiffing of HC twice, he should lose his friggin job. He's had 5 years to put this together and blew it. The team now has to be almost totally rebuilt. The D is old, we have no oline, all we have is a few decent young skill players to build around. I don't want TD rebuilding it again. He fugged it up. Let someone else have a shot.