Jared

I don't think I have ever seen this called a penalty on a runner ever in the last year+. Can anyone think of even one example?

Bill is 64 years old. He's said publicly that he doesn't want to coach past 70 (I think that was the number he said). Can Josh or Matt wait 6 years for a HC position? I wouldn't blame either for leaving. I doubt both stick around that long, but one of them may. As for Josh McDaniels specifically, I think (hope) he learned from his first go around in Denver as a HC, and will be a better coach the second time around. But no one will know for sure.

Different Pats fan here: I go to JetNation, Finheaven, and here. I read PatsFans, but never post there. I find it more fun to talk to fans of other teams, rather than just rehash the same topics with the same Pats fans over and over again.

The Vikings example is a tough comparison. Their solution was to throw a ton of draft picks at buying a replacement QB. The Pats example is a little better, where the coaches clearly had to implement a brand new offensive game plan to adapt for their rookie QB in week 3, and his skills and deficiencies.

It is hard to use team records to compare QBs. Winning with Brissett definitely shows BB's excellence, but let's be clear here: Brissett only gained about 160 yards of offense total, and only 100 passing. If Brady plays that game, the Pats might have won 45-0. Similarly, people make hay of Cassell leading the 2008 team to 11-5 record, but neglect to mention Cassell threw for 21 TDs with basically an identical receiving corps that Brady threw FIFTY TDs to. Comparing Brady and Manning: I think if you swapped them, Brady would have put up a bunch of stats from 2003-2008 throwing to Marvin and Reggie, while Peyton would have won the rings on the back of the Patriots defenses. But that is just conjecture at this point. Both are excellent players. Similarly, a great player being followed by another great player, or a team succeeding after a great player has moved on, doesn't mean the great player isn't great. Steve Young and Aaron Rodgers success does not mean Montana or Favre are somehow lesser players than they were before.

He wasn't asked to do much. 11 of 19 for 100ish yards, with most of those incompletes being intentional overthrows (better that NO ONE catch it, if your WR can't). The Pats intentionally played a very conservative offensive gameplan to prevent their rookie QB from having a chance to screw up. He successfully played within the scheme that was called for. What more do you expect from a third round rookie starting on a short week?

This is true about every OL in the league. Read the rulebook definition of holding, then watch literally ANY passing play from any game.

Hey Flutie was... oh... right.

There is an entire quarter to go. It is the offense's job to score points. If the defense doesn't like it, DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT.

These things happen every year in every close game. Look at how the Seahawks beat the Packers in the NFCCG. The last five minutes was one ridiculous play after another. The Patriots ones are just memorable because they were on the way to championships, or in championships, while that Seahawks/Packers game will be forgotten. In the SB, you have Malcolm Butler's pick, but two plays before that was a ridiculous bobbling catch that the WR probably only catches 5% of the time.

Yep. You need to know how to defend them. Every team runs these plays. Some teams just run them more often than others.

This is respectable as hell.

Pats fan here (I initially stopped in to read Rex reactions, but I saw this thread). Peter King in his MMQB article clearly states that on all three plays in question, there was between 7 and 10 seconds from the time of the PA announcement to when the ball is snapped. I'm not sure what other benefit a defense is deserving of against a trick play.

I saw an article a week or two ago showing that NFL arrests for domestic violence were lower than the general population. The author was trying to claim "see, players aren't bad!" All I thought was "or the league covers it up better than regular people."

What, you're saying you don't know who the Fish or Jets drafted with their 2nd and 3rd day picks and now that impacts who the #2 and #3 guards are?

For the most part, though his issues look to me less about the pure speed, but the guys who can change direction on him. A small pure speed rusher can be diverted outside, guided past the QB, or just smothered with size. The hardest ones are those that can start getting the OT moving back and out, then change direction, cut across the front of the OT, and turn it into an inside move. Cameron Wake did this to Solder a number of times against Miami, and the young, confused interior Gs were not giving him the help he needed. (and for the record, I am a Pats fan. I just like having intelligent football discussions with other people.)

According to www.predictem.com, the Patriots were 8-8 against the spread in 2013. All teams ranged between 11-5 (SEA) and 5-11 (WAS). The majority of teams (18) went between 7-9 and 9-7 against the spread. The Patriots were 9-7 against the spread in 2011 and 2012, 10-5-1 in 2010.

Stork is a 2014 draftee who was injured in the preseason. The Patriots were hoping that after the Mankins trade one of the young OL would step up (Stork, Cannon, Devey, Kline, etc). Since both Wendell and Connolly were capable of playing both G and C, depending on which young OL stepped in, it would cause Wendell and Connolly to shift around. Stork is a C, which keeps the two veterans at guard. That seemed to work decently last week (though against arguably the weakest pass rush the Pats have faced so far this season). I think of Stork, Devey, and Kline, Stork is the best interior lineman, so last week's OL is probably the best they can do. Cannon would be better served staying as swing tackle. If Stork is out, then either Devey or Kline will start at guard, with probably Connolly sliding to C. If that occurs, the biggest issue is not just straight up inside rushers, but stunts. The Pats have shown that their slightly undersized, technician based interior blocking can be vulnerable to movement inside if they are not all on the same page.

I didn't say that. I just think that much of the Patriots OL issues were, to some extent, self inflicted. Assuming Stork continues to play solidly, their OL should be roughly equivalent to last year: that is to say, good but not great, and still susceptible to a strong inside pass rush or elite speed rushers. The Pats were still very beatable last year.

I'm not sure where the idea of the Patriots not paying their players comes from. We aren't talking about baseball here. Every team has a similar dollar value to work with. Only a few teams in the entire league are notable for not paying close to the max. Their cap number this year is 128 million. Denver, for example, is at 129 million. The Patriots opened up the checkbook to lock up Gronk and Hernandez long term. They offered Welker what they felt he was worth. Welker got insulted and walked. Turns out that the deal the Broncos offered Welker was even LESS, but by then the Patriots had already signed Amendola. Obviously no one could have predicted that Hernandez would turn out to be a double murderer. Everyone knew he was a thug, but no one expected that. As for defense, the Patriots already locked in Wilfork and Mayo. They will probably sign McCourty long term. They are obviously paying huge money to Revis as well. ****, even their kicker is the third highest cap hit for a kicker in the NFL this year. Spikes would have had a place on the Patriots defense even as a firey, two down LB. Ted Johnson was excellent in that role for the Patriots during the dynasty years. However Spikes never seemed to quite buy in, and it was clearly a culture clash with the coaching staff. A combination of that and a desire to be paid like a three down MLB doomed him in New England.

The Pats OL is kind of an interesting issue. Last year the Pats main OL was Solder/Mankins/Wendell/Connolly/Vollmer. Marcus Cannon was a swing tackle and primary backup (he got some action at guard). Vollmer and Solder were generally regarded as good but not great tackles, Mankins was an aging mauler who was still an excellent run blocker but declining pass blocker, and Wendell and Connolly were serviceable veterans. The Pats drafted three OL in 2014: C Stork (4th), T Fleming (4th), and G Halapio (6th). Mankins, as we all know, was traded away. Speculation was that they would be unable to resign him/reduce his cap value, so the decision was made to get value for him rather than release him next year. However, this meant that his interior spot had to be filled. Stork was the highest drafted OL, but he was hurt. They tried Cannon as a guard. They tried Halapio. They tried a couple cast off veterans and second year UDFA Jordan Devey. None of these combinations seemed to work, and for the first few weeks of the season the OL was wildly inconsistent. Additionally, during their two losses, they faced some excellent pass rushers (both Hali and Wake had amazing days on the outside), and faced hostile environments on the road (Miami in the heat, KC in the noise). In Week 5, the OL was seemingly stabilized with Solder/Wendell/Stork/Connolly/Vollmer. So basically their best OL this year can be summed up as "last year's OL, + their highest drafted rookie." When considered that way, their OL doesn't seem nearly weak as it was in previous weeks, when they were mixing and matching players. This is not to say that OL is a strength. However if they stay with this group consistently, and Stork continues to show progress, it should be a serviceable group, and not a significant weakness for the team. If they stay settled with this lineup (which I expect them to do), they should improve every week as they work together, barring injuries.

Orton is a lot like RB Thomas Jones.. He is solid, but teams always think they can do better.

No, instead there are a LOT of young players on this team who grew up as fans of the NFL while Tom Brady was establishing a dynasty and breaking records. Oh, and he just blew out the last undefeated team in the NFL last week. No pressure.

This discussion is meaningless until Brady retires.

Frosted mini wheats.