Virgil

I don't know if I had to see it live or what, but I think I'm finally understanding what the team is doing. I think it's so easy to underestimate the mental toughness and Buy-in needed from players into the coaching and the scheme. I also believe that you can become a mental loser and not understand a winning culture. Even with all the turnover on the defensive side of the ball (only 4 starters left from last year), they still look so much further ahead than the offense. Why? Because of the turnover in my opinion. I think that most of the offensive needs to be blown up more. It's nothing against Tyrod, Mills (Even though he's a dumpster fire) or anyone else. The mental mistakes these guys are just used to making is so obvious. The batted down balls, illegal formation, all of it. I don't really think it matters who our QB is with this offensive line and their super combo of penalties and terrible blocking. It all just needs to be blown up with guys who weren't part of the Rex Ryan clown show. And yes, I think even Incognito is part of that. These guys just don't know how to not mess up anymore. Rex broke them. And yes, the offensive coaching staff deserves some of the blame for not fitting scheme to talent. This is the same line as last year, but now we can't even run the ball so far. Yes, it's preseason. Yes, we are seeing vanilla. But the issues aren't about scheme really. This is just an old losing mentality and you can just see the difference between the players from last year vs this one. Call it a rebuild, can it whatever. But all the players with Rex PTSD need to go.

I went to Camden a lot when I lived up there. I know a spot that's maybe $20 and it's an easy out. It's 4 blocks from Camden, and they share a parking lot. If interested, message me. Now, for a preseason game, it may not matter with light traffic. However, make sure you eat at Matthews Pizza while you are there. Don't judge it by its appearance. Voted best pizza in the state for over a decade.

Because if he's not a fit, then he's simply not a fit. If health is the issue, I'm surprised they let him on the field

At this point, if we can get a 3rd for him, take it

The question is whether or not I can commit to a full rebuild and care about this season as much. I don't believe tanking exists when you play for non-guaranteed contracts. But as a fan, do you ultimately hope for only 3-4 wins for the draft picks?

This isn't about the preseason to me. Unless they can get 9-10 wins, I think I'd hope for 4 wins instead of 5-8. I don't want to root for them to lose, but the high picks just mean more

I'm not trying to get into the tanking, not tanking conversation. No team is going to say they are tanking or in a complete rebuild when their are tickets to sell and players to keep happy. The Browns and Jets did it, but I think the fans wanted it too. Here's my concern. I believe that there's a natural transition whenever you get a new head coach. Nothing against the coach, but a new scheme just takes time for players to feel comfortable in and some players simply don't adapt. Look at our current DB's and LB's. We've pretty much turned them all over, not because they weren't good, but because they just don't fit. That's point #1. Point #2 is that we have the 4th hardest schedule. Yes, that changes from season to season, but I don't see it changing enough where we are given any favors. Point #3. Rookies are rare to contribute enough to where they are difference makers. Best case scenario is a solid contributor in their first 2 years. Put those 3 points together and I just don't see us making a playoff push this year or maybe even next. It's not that I'm a pessimist or disagree with what the team is doing. I would hold these standards to any team. I actually believe that we will get more production out of Matthews than Watkins. I agree that our defense will be better next year. But our offense line scares me and our no-name DB's/LB's scare me too. I just think it's too much against us. So with that, besides cap tragedies like Dareus, is there anyone that shouldn't be traded if we can't get value? Should anyone really be off limits? If the plan is to have a cap healthy team, with good young talent, where in 2 years when the Brady Era is done, is that a bad thing? While I hate the idea of 2 more years of non-playoffs, I think about the run we could go on from there. Again, I'm torn.

Anyone else think TT should've delayed the snap so that blitzer couldn't just keep momentum? If he stops at the line, then blitzes, I don't think that INT happens

I'm still not convinced on Mariotta. They don't ask him to do much and I feel he's similar to Tyrod in that he has a great running game and doesn't make the anticipatory throws. When the game is on the line and he has to make it happen with his arm, turnovers tend to happen.

2917 - All Hail Zorn!

While they are high numbers, I wouldn't count it out if we are fully rebuilding and 3 years out. It's a on if dead space that's replaced with low paid draft picks that we get in trade. Plus, then the player is gone and off the books by year three. I agree it's a ludicrous number, but we've seen teams do worse to acquire picks and weather the storm of a rebuild.

I like it. What's scary is, those are all need picks and you didn't address linebacker. We have a lot of holes for this new scheme

Is the purpose of this to gloat over those who are wrong in 3 years when the outcome of the trade will be known?

Thank you for actually addressing the post, not the title

We are stocked with picks, may be gunning for a QB, and also a bunch of defensive holes. Each year is deep at different positions and weak in others. What if the season ends and the top 3 teams with picks and need QB's and won't trade with us? I know we have the ammo, but they need to be willing to deal with us and I don't see us being worse than the 49ers, Jets, or Browns. And then, what if there just isn't the starting talent needed at the defensive positions we require? I'm just afraid that we won't have a draft that meets our needs and this drags down the line.

A few things here. On some level, if you're a fan, then you have no choice than to celebrate it because it's done and over. I look at it from a betting man's perspective. Based on the last 3 years, would you bet on him being healthy and finishing with a pro-bowl season or a sub-par season because of injury or Tyrod's play? If it's the latter, you get absolutely no value from him and maybe keep him on a "prove it deal". So, if you get a 2nd rounder in advance of that more likely scenario, it's a big win. If he breaks out like you think he could, then yes it sucks. It's all a gamble and you just need to have faith in the regime changes or you will be miserable for at least the next 3 years

I think our run game will be good, but it's going to be different with a new offensive coordinator. Even if it's the same as last year, we still only won 7 games. I agree with parts of our defense being better. I think our pass rush will be better, but our LB's scare me a lot. If we don't get to the QB, I worry about underneath coverage, getting to the outside, and the deep ball. You aren't wrong. I think a 7 win team with less talent, new scheme, and harder schedule isn't far fetched for 4-6 wins

TT still has a deep threat in Jones. He still has weapons. The issue is, TT doesn't only have to get better, he has to dominate to not make the team go all in on a rookie QB. And to the point said earlier, no one can be 100% on any of the rookies. There are way too many examples of hits than misses. I like TT but just don't see the jump happening strong enough for him to lock it up. But I'm very happy to be wrong

Why would Shady care about the picks we have coming up? He should be pissed because he didn't come here to be part of a rebuild and it appears that's what we are doing. As for the picks, we already had 4 of them and arguably got less talented at premium positions

I wanted to get a trial run post in here before the season started and it looks like it took today's news to motivate me. I wanted to do them for the preseason games, but there's just too many players, vanilla schemes, and other things going on to limit observations to 10 things. I'm sure a lot of our new members won't have any idea what this thread is about, but I'm hoping things go as well as last year. I talked to Bill From NY and I have his blessing again. He's going to do a cameo review for one of the games, but I'll leave that as a surprise for some of you. As for today, I think my co-workers assumed someone died in my family. I literally stopped dead in my tracks when I saw the news on my phone. I saw in silence for about 5 minutes as I went through all the articles, called my father and had to convince him I wasn't lying to him, and then just listened to WGR and the pressers while I tried to wrap my head around what happened. With that being said, here we go: 1 - 6 Wins - That's about where I had the team this season, even before today's trades. I'd like to think that I'm somewhat a realist who takes every loss to heart and eagerly awaits the return to glory. With that, I believe that any team, regardless of talent, will struggle with a new head coach, especially a first time head coach. It doesn't matter the team or coach, it's just a matter of scheme and culture change. I'm not going to look up the stats, but I'm sure it's not favorable. Like anyone in a new environment, people need to learn, grow, and develop. I like the hiring and hope for the best. But that, plus our strength of schedule; I just think 6 wins was realistic. 2 - Tyrod - I've been accused of being in the COT and I joking go along with it. I like TT. I want him to succeed. I want all of our players to succeed and once I know they are who we are going with, I will root for them. I don't understand bashing your QB when he's your answer right now. Go with it or be miserable I think. With that, I think he took less to come back because his agent found a dry market out there. To take this deal means he's willing to bet on himself and I like that. Losing Watkins for him is a concern, but I think they got him another deep threat with Jones and a deep threat doesn't require a lot of skill. TT's first TD bomb was to Harvin, so he can make that work with anyone. The hard thing for TT this year is that I feel like he's as good as gone next year. I just don't see him lighting it up with all 1st year receivers in this system. Same reason I think Kirk Cousins will have a rough year in losing all of his familiar weapons. I think TT will give us an average year and then we use our picks to get a QB. I'm not saying I agree or disagree, I just think there's too much to overcome for him. With that, if this is a rebuild, then I'd be curious to know what trade options are out there for him now. If Denver offers me a 3rd rounder, I think we have to listen. 3 - Shady/Kyle, signed FA's - I really worry about the message that was sent with this trade today. Whether you are for or against it, you have to agree that our talent level decreased today. Both players traded away are better combined than what we received. Yes, we got draft picks, but that's for next year. So the only message I can take from this is that we are in the middle of a plan to get better over time. And that's completely fine. However, I wonder if this plan was made clear to players we just brought on. I wonder what Shady thinks about going through a re-build of sorts? I wonder how Kyle feels about going through ANOTHER rebuild as he edges closer to retirement? At the end of the day, they are professionals who get paid millions. But I think the faith, dedication, and buy-in to the program also goes a long way to what we see on the field as well as future players wanting to sign here. And maybe we aren't done. Is it worth trading a massive Dareus contract and eat the dead money this year and next so we can be free of it when this rebuild is done? I'm not saying yes or no. But if I'm a player drafted or brought in by the old regime, I don't know how you feel safe. 4. Standing here The old man said to me Long before these crowded streets Here stood my dreaming tree 5 - Drafts aren't 100% and we aren't alone next year - I agree with the method of building through the draft and not relying on FA. In a salary cap world and players having an average playing career of under 4 years, you need to be able to cycle through talent. However, not all picks in the top 3 rounds are homeruns and not all drafts are equal in talent. Just because we have 6 picks in the first 3 rounds doesn't mean that we are going to nail all 6 picks. Just because it's considered to be a good qb draft class, doesn't mean they will hold up until next year. And worst of all, even if we only win 4 games next year, there are other qb hungry teams that may lose less (cough Jets). Even with all the trade ammo we have; if we are picking 4th and the three teams ahead of us need a QB, why would they trade us? If the Bills had the first pick and a Andrew Luck type QB is available, there isn't any package of picks that will make me pass on him. This is my biggest fear. We will need a QB, RT, and multiple LB's, S, and DB's to fit this new scheme. What if those guys just aren't there in the draft talent wise? Do we just trade back and kick the can to the next year? And even if they are available, how long does it take for these guys to contribute and compete at a playoff year. Best Case Scenario is what the Raiders did 4 years ago. But that's 4 more years of this. 6 - The Pegulas - The thing I learned today is that our owners are not getting in the way. I've read quite a few things about them meddling or giving uninformed input. For the trades to occur like they did with the talent involved, I think it's clear that Beane and McDermott have the keys and are in full control. For this, I am pleased. Not because those two have earned the right to make these decisions, but because we've empowered them and put faith in who we gave the keys to. 7 - Sammy - I have a Sammy Jersey and I think that he has the size, skills, and ability to be a top 3 WR. He has the best route running ability and hands I've seen in a very long time. With that being said, what you leave on the field is what matters. Unless he played all 16 games this year and put up 1200+ yards with 8+ TD's, I would have been hesitant to give him the contract he would've earned in FA. I love the kid and hate to see him. I feel really bad about him playing with Goff in a contract year. I don't think we were going to get a 1st rounder for him and I don't see him pulling off the season I needed to see for him to get that contract from us comfortably. With that, the end result sucks and we are probably a worse team this year without him, but the smart bet was getting value for him. 8 - Darby - I also really liked Darby and don't see how a corner of his ability can't fit into our scheme. His contract was small and we had him locked up for 2 more years. I'm going to choose to have faith that McDermott really saw something that wasn't going to work in his scheme or the value in obtaining Matthews and a 3rd was too great. The problem is, if we don't resign Matthews, then this was all for a 3rd and I just don't see that as a good trade for a very good DB that finished 2nd in DROY the other year. On the flip side, Gaines is nowhere near the player Darby is. And Wright got torched constantly in Baltimore. He even had a nickname for it. 9 - The Fans - I feel really bad for the season ticket holders like my father this year. It was already a tough sell for the season with all the changes. And like many fans, my family can't attend all the games. He still needs to sell the December games, which is always tough since we are usually out of the playoffs by then. But we do have some nice early season hype that helps sell those tickets. After today, right or wrong, I think a lot of people are sold on this being a rebuild. I think that's a message that wasn't clear until today and the tickets are already sold. While rebuilds are necessary, you can't blame so many of the fans that don't have faith in a rebuild here after 17 years of futility trying to do it. 10 - Today's Trade Value - When you look at a trade, you have to look at the present and future. In the immediate present, we are a less talented football team. I don't think anyone is arguing that. At the end of the season, we may lose both players to FA and are left with a 2nd and 3rd round pick and without a 6th round pick. Will those two picks result in players better than Sammy and Darby? Who knows? If those picks are used in trades to get a potential franchise QB? Who knows? Will that QB actually be a franchise QB? Who knows? End of the day, we are clearly focusing on the future, the scheme that McDermott wants to run, and everything before they were hired is up for grabs. It's hard to go through this for everyone and you have to respect both the negative and positive reactions. I'm torn on having to go through it all again. Even if we are in position to get Darnold next year, who is to say he'll be available for us, he'll be a franchise guy, or that he'll still be that great come draft time? Remember Jake Locker and all the other #1 QB's going into the college year only to have them completely fall off in production? This is a lot of "What If's" and a lot of faith to put into a first time coach and GM. But we all share the same goal of turning this thing around. I look forward to seeing how it goes. Go Bills.

RT performance Utilization of both fullbacks Who we rotate at safety Backup Qb's All linebacker play

Selfish piece of...... 😀

In hearing that Ragland is now running with the 3rd team, I'm on the thinking that we need to just trade him if he's that far off from being a fit for the team. I'm concerned about how obvious we are making it with his demotions. At this point, I wonder if we even get a 4th rounder for him. Nothing personal about the guy and I'm not watching practices, but it's frustrating to see two of our top 4 picks from last year be completely wasted.

Why not just go to the panthers game? Or even the preseason ravens game? I'm assuming the two-for of a bills game and being in New Orleans. Either way, the visit to the Cap is worth it. Especially after 30 years a fan. That's crazy

It's a case of whether or not you believe it should be about the entire career or what the represented at a time in the NFL. Kurt Warner and the greatest show on turf was a very big moment for the NFL. It was just insane what they were doing. FFL leagues had him, Bruce, and Warner going 1-2-3. Never have I seen such a thing. TD just couldn't stay healthy. But when he did for those few seasons, I'd compare him to any RB in history. He was just a tank. I can see both sides of it. But for me, I want to walk the hall of fame and see the transition of greatness through history. Those two and what they represented were part of that. I'll get flamed here, but Andre Reed is less deserving that those two. He was very good for a long time, but never dominant. To me, I'd rather have TD in his prime on my team than Andre Reed.