Billl

They’re clearly excluding the Super Bowl, because that obviously makes sense.

Yeah, but just because they didn’t use that specific pick doesn’t mean that having the extra draft capital didn’t allow it to happen.

or a Bills subforum.

Both teams won the trade. Buffalo likely would have drafted Lattimore otherwise, and they wouldn’t have added the draft capital that gave them the flexibility to trade up for Josh. If there has to be a loser in the deal, it was the rest of the league.

Fun fact: Jim Kelly was more than a year older than Josh is today when he played in his first postseason game.

Thanks, Taylor Swift!

This is a huge factor that nobody wants to acknowledge. When you put a total of 440 pounds of Linebackers on the field in your base defense and ask them to play sideline to sideline, they're going to get beat to hell. Now factor in the 17 game season and the elimination of a bye in the playoffs and it shouldn't come as a shock that you're running a MASH unit out there by January.

Injuries are bad, too. Probably best not to have a good training staff.

The Bills kept Von Miller and cut Matt Araiza, right?

I've never seen a fan base more obsessed with coaching.

No, we paid our #2 receiver $9m a year.

We just paid MVS (who several posters in this thread have compared him to) $18 million over 2 seasons. I would give Gabe that contract in a heartbeat.

If you think Knox’s injury was a positive for the Bills, then we can agree to disagree. Similarly, if you think losing a player who had 2700 yards and 27 TDs in 4 seasons while earning $1 million a year is addition by subtraction, we can agree to disagree.

I said that Dawson Knox getting injured wasn’t a positive for the Bills. Buffalo proceeded to go 2-3 with him out.

Cool, so when players play on different teams with different QBs have different levels of production. Who was throwing Davis and Kincaid the ball?

Your memory is so good you even remember things that never happened, then. Kincaid is a solid player. I've never said otherwise.

My point is that Davis gets dumped on here when he's been an incredible value to the team for four years. He's not a game wrecker, but he's provided competent WR2 play for less than a million dollars a season. If Kincaid has 2700 yards and 27 TDs in his first 4 seasons, Bills fans will be fitting him for a gold jacket. Meanwhile, his average salary in one season is roughly what Davis earned on his entire rookie deal. I guess I don't understand why everyone is so hostile towards a guy who never complained and vastly out-performed his contract and draft slot.

Gabe Davis as a rookie: 21 years old, 600 yards, 7 TDs, 9.7 yards per target

Gabe Davis: 24 years old. 750 yards, 7 TDs, 9.2 yards per target Dalton Kincaid: 24 years old, 650 yards, 2 TDs, 7.4 yards per target

This is the crux of the matter right here. A front office is always serving two masters. They are trying to win a Superbowl, but they're also trying to keep their jobs. If you believe, as I do, that the best path to a championship is to rip off the band-aid now, take your lumps in 2024, and target 2025 and beyond, the it's a question of whether McBeane feel they have enough job security to survive a 7-10 type season. To me, Beane is acting more like a guy who would rather continuing to kick the can down the road for as long as he can win 10 games and make the playoffs rather than someone who is singularly focused on winning a championship. It's why I think this board directs too much blame at McDermott and not enough at Beane. It's not just cap management, either. Even the draft picks have been safe lately. A 24 year old TE in the first round and interior OL in the second are solid pieces, but they're relatively high floor, low ceiling picks. They're not the type you take when your mentality is "superstar or bust". They're the type you target when you feel that you've got enough firepower on the roster already and need to supplement them with quality supporting pieces.

The reason for optimism with him for me is that he has steadily increased his number of QB hits each season. Generally speaking, that means the sacks will come. Alternatively, it’s why I’m not as high on what Oliver did this season. His sack total increased dramatically, but his number of QB hits was the same as it’s always been which tells me that this season was likely a bit of an outlier. I wouldn’t be surprised at all if Rousseau were to lead the team in sacks next year. In fact I kind of expect it. If he never takes the next step, you let him walk after 2025 and draft his replacement. Overall, he’s great value on his rookie contract but at his current level of play he isn’t the kind of guy you give a huge contract. Setting the edge is great and all. It’s like Davis blocking downfield. But you pay DEs to kill QBs, and if you aren’t getting at least 8-10 sacks a season then you aren’t worth $20+ million IMO.

Extend him at what price, though? If it takes 4/$86 million with $60 million guaranteed, are you good with that? He's a solid player and a great value at his current contract of 4/$12 million. I listed him as the most likely Bill to have a breakout season in 2023, but it never materialized. Unless he finds another level in 2024, I think Beane can find similar production in the draft on day 2.

@SuccessThat’s a pretty big qualifier given that Allen, Milano, Diggs, Dawkins, Tre, etc. were added more than 3 seasons ago. This is a declining roster, and it’s no longer at a championship level. Losing a close game in the Divisional round doesn’t change that. The team was closer to missing the postseason than winning a Super Bowl.

I literally said the exact opposite.

He’s Montgomerie in the sense that he’s one of the best ever to not win a major. Colin is in the golf HOF, so that’s not an insult to Josh. Josh can absolutely win a title(s), and if/when he does, the Montgomerie comparison would no longer apply. Marino is the standard bearer for great QBs who never won a ring. He did make a Super Bowl and won an MVP award, though. I think Josh has at least a 50-50 chance of winning one. At that point, you start talking about his place in history and how he compares to guys like Favre and Elway. If he doesn’t ever break through, he’ll forever be on the list with Moon, Kelly, Marino, etc. It’s not necessarily fair, but that’s reality. I do think that OBD will be wasting a year of his career if they try to make a run in 2024 by hanging onto players who are on the downside of their careers. What’s more is that they’ll be throwing up roadblocks in the future by pushing bad contracts into future seasons thus potentially wasting additional years of his career which would be a crime. As a Chiefs fan, I want Mahomes to win every title from now until the end of time, but in the years that the Chiefs don’t win it, I’d much rather see a team like the Bills win than someone like the Eagles or Bengals.