MasterStrategist

I've never said Gabe is a "solid #2". Instead, I've said: 1. Gabe is a non traditional #2 / serves his purpose in our offense 2. we don't need a true #2. We have a complimentary group of weapons now, to build around Josh/Diggs 3. Diggs should continue to get 160-170 targets per year; then remaining 300+ to Gabe, Kincaid, Shakir, Knox, Harty, Sherfield, and Rbs 4. Dhop will be too expensive, said this over a month ago. 5. At this point, adding Dhop renders Gabe or some combination of Kincaid/Knox less valuable/far less snaps in our offense. Which i don't think Beane desires, again at the cost of Dhop...key point being the cost 6. Cap implications: we have to get creative/leverage future capital to likely get Dhop....And even though it's possible, Beane has been less inclined to do this during his tenure. It likely disrupts 1-2 years of offseason signings/ability to resign our own and almost guarantees Ed and Gabe hit the open market. All of above is opinion, disagree if you will. But it's not based on me thinking Gabe gives us a solid #2 this year. I think there's a chance still he becomes that, but I'd expect we try to spread the ball around (ie: KC offense LY), and let each week's opponents allow us to dictate which matchups favor us more.

Weird vendetta against Gabe. We lost to Cincy as a higher seed at home. Yes, the 1 seed is important but you know what is more important... Keeping our blue chip talent healthy. Its luck/fortune, but we can't lose a Tre White, Micah Hyde, Von Miller, etc...or multiple of these guys. If we were 1 seed LY, we weren't getting past KC or Cincy (proven) with our secondary injuries (compiled by DL injuries). Gabe wasn't the cause of that...

Every team loses a stupid regular season game each year. Did Ross use that against Taylor, losing week 1 to Steelers, and costing them a high seed? Look I'm just against ranking Coach at 22, way too low. I'm not for replacing Coach at all. He's proven to beat KC, on the road, he needs to make it happen in the playoffs. Cincy, I'm less concerned matching up with their team if our secondary is healthy. Not an excuse, but their strength became a weakness for us by seasons end. I have faith in Coach getting us over the hump, taking over playcalling and improvements we've made elsewhere to the roster.

Hey man I'm in agreement on Cincy game. I also think Josh missed some easy passes/he typically connects on, early in that game. Defense just looked like garbage. Yes injuries on Cincy OL and our DL/secondary, but our scheme was awful. Agree, this has been discussed alot. Just don't like Ross' justification for #22, it doesn't add up to me that's all.

You're gonna earn the nickname "Madden Boy" pretty soon. What do you think it would cost/draft capital to acquire? Donald has contemplated retirement for 1+ year, are you willing to risk this isn't just a 1 year rental? How do we fit the 13.5m under cap this year, is Ed traded somewhere/cut? Are Rams interested in Ed, why?

1. We lost to a "higher ranked" coach and QB, in 2 of those playoff seasons. 2. Cincy loss, this team was outcoached but more so OUTPLAYED. This was a complete failure top to bottom. Excuses aside, just a poor showing all around I'm not advocating McDermott ahead of Reid or Taylor, but 22 and the reasoning above to defend that is just dumb/click bait.

Glad you came around

Thought Dhop is in Toronto training?

They scored with 1 second (week 6 game), which would have been time expired in the playoff game. And yes, perhaps they fall on it in playoff game at the 20. That sets them back 5 yards and might have been the difference. Point is you squib 100x out of 100. And the prior poster is correct, that was the more aggregious blunder of the infamous 13 seconds That also doesn't exonerate Frazier/defense. I'm glad he's taking a year off, we needed a change...hopefully Coach can get this defense to be more clutch.

We will never know what happened, but it appeared to be a major major mistake and coat Farwell his job. Odds are in your favor to take at least some time off the clock... Great example, week 6 vs Chiefs...we score a TD with 16 seconds left. Guess what happened next: squib kick (not even a great one), picked up at the 20 and returned to the 28, took 4 seconds off the clock. That's about as comparable as we'll ever get/prediction as to what would gave occurred. That would have, in most likelihood, been enough to win

@Warriorspikes51 believes anyone and anything that links Dhop to us. Good for him, its nice to dream. But Dhop himself could say he's not signing with us, and not sure that changes his mind.

He's bounced between 3 teams in 3 seasons, signed by Miami last September because of all their injuries. Likley a similar 1 year deal to Quess ($1.6m). He's sitting there on May 29th for a reason. Again, I like the signing. But it's depth and if he has to play meaningful snaps, then that means Spencer played horrible. My point is let's not act like we just upgraded the RT position, best chance of that happening is Spencer playing his A game.

Looking at stats only is helpful, but not telling the entire story. I like the signing but realistically he was forced into action for Miami LY, because of their tackle injuries. He's a Quess 2.0, which isn't bad. But he's better at pass pro, not better than Spencer. This doesn't move the needle improving OL, unless you Sherfield moves the needle improving WR2...basically same backup types.

Brandon Shell isn't starting, unless Spencer goes down. He's a solid backup, likely competing with Quess and then Doyle once he returns later in the year.

Exactly!!!!! Brandon Shell is a good backup competing with Quess, but that's it. Problem is nobody is available and everyone is about this year only. The scenario exists that we save the cap and do this next year...

I keep mentioning this because ppl such as yourself keeping mentioning Gabe as a #3... 1. Gabe doesn't play the slot, hardly ever. 2. Putting our 3 best Wrs on the field, includes Gabe. But then 2 things happen-- likely Kincaid/Knox to the bench and Diggs or Dhop in the slot. 3. Gabe becomes what you are really saying which is how we was used in 2020 and 2021...a backup, who now likely gets even less time because it's not Smoke and Manny keeping him off the field but Dhop. I'm not a fan of option 2. At which point you my as well get an asset back for Gabe, because there's zero chance he resigns and gets his snaps likely cut below 50%. This is why posters suggested a Gabe trade above. I'd also be floored if Dhop gets less money than OBJ...this is pure speculation right now.

Considering he's done it before, yes I do. Not as many in the open field, but zone reads in the redzone...Gabe and Diggs both. Daboll to an extent, but mostly Dorsey had longer developing deep routes. I think McKenzie commented on this, after Bengals loss. But it just takes watching the games to realize our offense is predicated as a downfield scheme. Diggs gets moved all over, rest of offense is fairly straightforward. Personally, I like Dorseys scheme (which is mainly Dabolls with more personell groupings & more aggressive). It's about finding the right balance of being aggressive and taking shorter throws, that's mostly on Josh. He has outlets/layered options on most playcalls. Go back and watch LY games, see how many times Josh passes up the easy 5 yard dump offs. Again, finding the right balance...which he had in Pats/Chiefs playoff games.

$$$$

I know where you're coming from, it's not his best trait...but I wouldn't say he can't do it. It's more in breaking slants and digs, that he could be used more often. I'd agree Gabe isn't a 1b, or even a traditional 2. But where our opinions differ, is if that matters. Jmo, our offense has plenty of dangerous weapons. We have 1 guy in Diggs that can do it all, and then a complimentary group. OL needs to protect better. Knox doesn't get used near enough, mostly bc he's used as an extra blocker/outlet receiver. I'm hopeful about Kincaid, Shakir, and Harty. and an improved running game. I think that's enough, but it's on Dorsey to scheme it up and OL to play to their potential

I'd be on board with this. My guess is he either wants too much $$$, and/or Beane trying to figure who the odd man out is: Boogie or Aje. Pretty certain they were interested in upgrading, then settled for Shaq and cheap fliers (Ray). Maybe interest is still there, perhaps waiting for Dhop scenario to shake out? This season is going to rest on the trench players actually performing, regardless of Dhop. I'm hopeful for both, but alot riding on Spencer stepping it up and Vons ability once he's back. JMO...

Couple comments here: 1. agree he isn't Dhop, but Gabe can run the underneath routes. Josh himself said the offense should be incorporating more throws to him underneath. This is a chicken/egg argument, because Dorsey hardly used him in that role (is that bc he "can't do it" like you said, OR bc he's our best deep ball threat and it clears out more for other guys?) 2. Even if Gabe is used primarily as a deep ball threat, who cares. This offense has been top 5 for multiple seasons. Our offense isn't the reason we've lost jn the playoffs. Cincy game, yes, offense was bad and so was defense. Bottom line, is it's been overdue to address the OL and slot position; which is where I agree we needed to get better (underneath/reliable targets middle of field). Beane addressed this already. It's time for Dorsey to scheme around his multiple weapons, and more importantly the defense to step up come playoffs. Defense has let us down against KC 2x, Cincy, & almost Indy.

We actually did run the ball, and that 2nd half of season offense wasn't neat as bad as many want to point out. See my prior post: Also, there's a lot of ways to win on offense in the NFL, most fans understand that. But the issue now, is that Cincy has a 1a/1b situation at WR and many are envious/think that's the necessity. It's like the hot new fad, everyone needs to copy that model. While OTOH, KC just won a SB with similar weapons to what we have now, BUT didn't have LY. Biggest addition is a guy who can potentially dominate in the middle of the field, in Kincaid. He's not going to be 1b to start the season, but I could see him growing into that role by EOY. Also, we added multiple IOL that should upgrade our situation. Dorsey has a lot of pressure to succeed, but I believe in him. Many ppl wrote off Daboll too. Our offense will be a "pick your poison" throughtout the season, and it will be Dorseys job to scheme up the best matchups week to week. Not many teams are matching up with our current personnel, even without Dhop.

Not disagreeing that Dhop helps us immediately over Gabe, but weren't you the poster trying to make a point that a stud QB can carry an offense? IIRC, using Mahomes and this past KC team as an example. KC with a stud #1 option to go with a generational QB/coach, and an OL to give him plenty of time to throw. I admit that I may have you confused with someone else, if so my apologies. But I thought that poster had a solid point. Either way, hopefully our IOL moves pan out quickly. McGovern is a rising player, and the addition of Kincaid. Dorsey has the pressure on his shoulders to make this work.

From one professional number guy to another, I'd agree overall: 1. 1 year in the future, likely the Groot or Elam draft class, we will be heavily hampered cap-wise. This will almost certainly lead to us being unable to sign 1 or 2 of the following long term: Groot, Elam, Cook, or Spencer Brown. 2. Likely sacrifices our competitive balance for 1-2 years total. Not a horrible team, but not going to be top 3 in the AFC, unless Beane crushes the draft these years. Josh Allen and a few others, while trying to find 1-3 new core players via draft 3. Short term, Davis and Ed gone after this year. Which might happen regardless, depends how you view this loss (both are polarizing to fans). Beane has stated his thoughts on both guys, unprovoked by questions on either player, when discussing teams longer term plans This is what reality will be, and boils down to whether Beane thinks Dhop is worth that. Alternatively, we have more flexibility with signing our own guys. Who at this point, there isn't a "sure fire" we MUST resign guy, out of all the players mentioned above. But, it comes with the ability to do so if someone makes a big improvement and/or gives flexibility to add another piece (ie Dhop at a different position next season). I won't speak for all posters who have cap concerns with signing Dhop. But that's how I view it, and analyze the pros/cons of the teams immediate and future competitive balance.

Agree, no need to sugarcoat. But some stat sites only show 57 of his targets as actually catchable. Just sharing information (ie:source is fantasy pros). Gabe can obviously improve, so can others on our team. My purpose of the post is let's not exaggerate what happened, just to align with an agenda of signing Dhop. Dhop is a better player than Gabe, or any other receiver we have not named Stefon. That's something we all should agree on. This topic has spun into we "need" Dhop, must spend at all costs because our window is about to close, Beane can't let Kc sign him no matter what, etc. Their is an alternate scenario that we play to our potential, our acquisitions contribute as expected, and our young guys take the needed step forward. That includes Gabe playing to his, which is somewhere between this past year and KC playoff loss. In this "team scenario", we don't need to mortgage future cap. this is a Sb roster with or w/o Dhop. And if you or anyone else feels it's Dhop or bust, it's likely going to be disappointing once he takes the biggest $$$$ offer elsewhere