MasterStrategist

Considering he's done it before, yes I do. Not as many in the open field, but zone reads in the redzone...Gabe and Diggs both. Daboll to an extent, but mostly Dorsey had longer developing deep routes. I think McKenzie commented on this, after Bengals loss. But it just takes watching the games to realize our offense is predicated as a downfield scheme. Diggs gets moved all over, rest of offense is fairly straightforward. Personally, I like Dorseys scheme (which is mainly Dabolls with more personell groupings & more aggressive). It's about finding the right balance of being aggressive and taking shorter throws, that's mostly on Josh. He has outlets/layered options on most playcalls. Go back and watch LY games, see how many times Josh passes up the easy 5 yard dump offs. Again, finding the right balance...which he had in Pats/Chiefs playoff games.

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I know where you're coming from, it's not his best trait...but I wouldn't say he can't do it. It's more in breaking slants and digs, that he could be used more often. I'd agree Gabe isn't a 1b, or even a traditional 2. But where our opinions differ, is if that matters. Jmo, our offense has plenty of dangerous weapons. We have 1 guy in Diggs that can do it all, and then a complimentary group. OL needs to protect better. Knox doesn't get used near enough, mostly bc he's used as an extra blocker/outlet receiver. I'm hopeful about Kincaid, Shakir, and Harty. and an improved running game. I think that's enough, but it's on Dorsey to scheme it up and OL to play to their potential

I'd be on board with this. My guess is he either wants too much $$$, and/or Beane trying to figure who the odd man out is: Boogie or Aje. Pretty certain they were interested in upgrading, then settled for Shaq and cheap fliers (Ray). Maybe interest is still there, perhaps waiting for Dhop scenario to shake out? This season is going to rest on the trench players actually performing, regardless of Dhop. I'm hopeful for both, but alot riding on Spencer stepping it up and Vons ability once he's back. JMO...

Couple comments here: 1. agree he isn't Dhop, but Gabe can run the underneath routes. Josh himself said the offense should be incorporating more throws to him underneath. This is a chicken/egg argument, because Dorsey hardly used him in that role (is that bc he "can't do it" like you said, OR bc he's our best deep ball threat and it clears out more for other guys?) 2. Even if Gabe is used primarily as a deep ball threat, who cares. This offense has been top 5 for multiple seasons. Our offense isn't the reason we've lost jn the playoffs. Cincy game, yes, offense was bad and so was defense. Bottom line, is it's been overdue to address the OL and slot position; which is where I agree we needed to get better (underneath/reliable targets middle of field). Beane addressed this already. It's time for Dorsey to scheme around his multiple weapons, and more importantly the defense to step up come playoffs. Defense has let us down against KC 2x, Cincy, & almost Indy.

We actually did run the ball, and that 2nd half of season offense wasn't neat as bad as many want to point out. See my prior post: Also, there's a lot of ways to win on offense in the NFL, most fans understand that. But the issue now, is that Cincy has a 1a/1b situation at WR and many are envious/think that's the necessity. It's like the hot new fad, everyone needs to copy that model. While OTOH, KC just won a SB with similar weapons to what we have now, BUT didn't have LY. Biggest addition is a guy who can potentially dominate in the middle of the field, in Kincaid. He's not going to be 1b to start the season, but I could see him growing into that role by EOY. Also, we added multiple IOL that should upgrade our situation. Dorsey has a lot of pressure to succeed, but I believe in him. Many ppl wrote off Daboll too. Our offense will be a "pick your poison" throughtout the season, and it will be Dorseys job to scheme up the best matchups week to week. Not many teams are matching up with our current personnel, even without Dhop.

Not disagreeing that Dhop helps us immediately over Gabe, but weren't you the poster trying to make a point that a stud QB can carry an offense? IIRC, using Mahomes and this past KC team as an example. KC with a stud #1 option to go with a generational QB/coach, and an OL to give him plenty of time to throw. I admit that I may have you confused with someone else, if so my apologies. But I thought that poster had a solid point. Either way, hopefully our IOL moves pan out quickly. McGovern is a rising player, and the addition of Kincaid. Dorsey has the pressure on his shoulders to make this work.

From one professional number guy to another, I'd agree overall: 1. 1 year in the future, likely the Groot or Elam draft class, we will be heavily hampered cap-wise. This will almost certainly lead to us being unable to sign 1 or 2 of the following long term: Groot, Elam, Cook, or Spencer Brown. 2. Likely sacrifices our competitive balance for 1-2 years total. Not a horrible team, but not going to be top 3 in the AFC, unless Beane crushes the draft these years. Josh Allen and a few others, while trying to find 1-3 new core players via draft 3. Short term, Davis and Ed gone after this year. Which might happen regardless, depends how you view this loss (both are polarizing to fans). Beane has stated his thoughts on both guys, unprovoked by questions on either player, when discussing teams longer term plans This is what reality will be, and boils down to whether Beane thinks Dhop is worth that. Alternatively, we have more flexibility with signing our own guys. Who at this point, there isn't a "sure fire" we MUST resign guy, out of all the players mentioned above. But, it comes with the ability to do so if someone makes a big improvement and/or gives flexibility to add another piece (ie Dhop at a different position next season). I won't speak for all posters who have cap concerns with signing Dhop. But that's how I view it, and analyze the pros/cons of the teams immediate and future competitive balance.

Agree, no need to sugarcoat. But some stat sites only show 57 of his targets as actually catchable. Just sharing information (ie:source is fantasy pros). Gabe can obviously improve, so can others on our team. My purpose of the post is let's not exaggerate what happened, just to align with an agenda of signing Dhop. Dhop is a better player than Gabe, or any other receiver we have not named Stefon. That's something we all should agree on. This topic has spun into we "need" Dhop, must spend at all costs because our window is about to close, Beane can't let Kc sign him no matter what, etc. Their is an alternate scenario that we play to our potential, our acquisitions contribute as expected, and our young guys take the needed step forward. That includes Gabe playing to his, which is somewhere between this past year and KC playoff loss. In this "team scenario", we don't need to mortgage future cap. this is a Sb roster with or w/o Dhop. And if you or anyone else feels it's Dhop or bust, it's likely going to be disappointing once he takes the biggest $$$$ offer elsewhere

Don't act so level headed. You know our window is closing, sky is falling, no Dhop=no SB...and most important, KC might get him instead of us, oh no. You're spot on with this. Although I'm expecting a million replies about being worried about salary cap, amongst other gripes. In reality, our team (led by Beane/staff) has made ample improvements at key areas of concern. And echoing your point, we also have young/potential budding stars on both sides of the ball. This isn't the end of a dynasty, but just the start

Bills didn't lead the league in drops, had 29, which was 2nd worst. 7 teams had 26 drops or more, including the SB winning Chiefs. Gabe had 7 drops, tied for worst in the league with Jamar Chase, Travis Kelce and others. Stefon Diggs 6 drops. Obviously the team could do better in this area. But let's not have mic drop moments about stating incorrect information, and acting like the importance is so paramount....it's gonna happen when you have a team throwing alot and our style of QB play...lets ask Chief fans how bothered they are with having 26 drops.

Very fair and well said! Can't argue the merits of this, we will see how this shakes out. Either way, I'm feeling good about our current group...Dhop would be a nice bonus, but not necessity to me I guess it's just as important as others posting a dozen times on their thoughts, or posting eye roll emojis,, or someone who spends time as a moderator. People quote you and you respond, it's a message board...figured that comes with the territory.

At what cost? Or does that not matter If you're ready to bucket Shakir with Ford, that's a you problem. I'll take it to the reputable mechanic, ***that's not overpriced. That's what this boils down to me, is cost for Dhop...

The dropped passes stat, can you please share the specifics/source? It's been said alot, assuming someone actually provided our stats from LY by player. Smoke got meaningless snaps. Beas was brought back because our top slot option broke an ankle, Isiah was inconsistent/struggled against zone, and our 5th round rookie was learning the ropes. Beane has since talked up Shakir, brought in Harty, and used a 1st on Kincaid. That's an upgrade, and this isn't enough for you?

This team as is, can compete and win the SB. Just like LY and the year before. Nobody was complaining after the KC loss, except about 13 seconds and lack of DL pressure (maybe toss RT into that too). All of a sudden, after the team (entire group) played poorly against Cincy, we need another all pro WR? Makes no sense.

Depends if you think Dhop puts us in SB contention/how much does it move the needle? Yes our offense is likely better, but by how much? We've been a top scoring/top end offense and the defense failed us against KC 2x, then against Cincy that was a complete team failure. Beane might not need to buy patience, Pegula might not agree with you. And everyone has a different risk level, depends what you define as too much caution....again, likely not Beanes view.

Agree about AZ. But at the same time, let's not act like that all of a sudden Dhop being released opens the Beane/Pegula piggy bank. Cap concerns still exist, if you like or not, Beane doesn't want to leverage too much future cap. We also don't know what Dhop is asking for, but can imagine it's OBJ $ territory. It's a luxury to have 2 all-pro WRs, agree? Please explain if you think this is a necessity, because Beane could spend this $$$ next year or the year after or the year after....to improve other positions, specifically OT/DT. This is like taking my 5 yr old into the store, and he wants the new/shiny toy. There's always going to be that new/shiny toy though, and this is just my opinion, but Dhop doesn't put us over the top. This is a move I make when we lack a true Wr1, which is exactly what other recent teams did (that HappyDays and others cited)...such as OBJ to Rams, Aj Brown to Philly, etc. Those teams lacked #1/demand defensive attention type Wrs....we dont.

Unless Dhop takes a significant pay reduction or heavy incentive-laden deal, there's no way Beane pulls the trigger now. He would have done it already, instead invested in at least Kincaid and possibly others since his potential trade talks stalled. Last 3 seasons : Josh averaged 575 pass attempts 1. Diggs avg 150-160 targets Let's say Dhop takes another 150, thats less than 300 targets to go around for : Davis, Knox, Kincaid, Shakir, Harty, and our RBs (which is supposedly a reason we liked Cook and traded for Hines). That's a significant wasted investment at this point, again, if we have to pay Dhop anywhere near OBJs deal. To me, Beane is smart enough to know Dhop was likely getting released. I'd love to have Dhop too. But it is highly unlikely for us now, unless Dhop surprises and takes less money

For every "Saints" situation, you have the Steelers, Chiefs, Packers, etc. Id list NE but theyre a different breed with the GOAT and best coach. Teams that didn't mortgage their future, won at least 1 title and had competitive teams year in and year out. Btw, how many titles did the Saints win? You can disagree with Beanes philosophy, but he said his 1st press conference that he intends to have 1 eye in the now and 1 toward the future. Building a consistently competitive team. Hitting on the draft is critical, and being smart with his spending. That's been his focus. Oliver and Davis could very well be in our plans beyond this season. Beane has stated that, unprompted, but obviously the price has to match the value.

Defense: Elam and Groot. I'm convinced something happened behind the scenes with Elam LY, causing him to be in the doghouse. But he's going to become a star CB this season. Groot goes off for 12 sacks, with improved playcalling and secondary play. Offense: Cook and Davis. Both go over 1k yards, led by improved OL play and Dorsey having all his doubters now fret him leaving for a HC role.

and with that overly simplistic mindset, Beane should have spent all this "potential dhop $" on improving RT, LG, and RG in FA. instead he upgraded our guards, and found supporting options. This is a better team already, on paper, than LY. It's not supporting Gabe vs Josh, it's understanding this isn't the last year of the NFL and Beane is wisely considering future salary cap impications/roster build.

Right, and that was 2020/2021 when Davis was developing. He's a capable Wr2, who got extra attention LY because of a perfect storm of poor OL play (Knox having to chip), no reliable slot option, and battling thru his high ankle sprain. We will soon see what Beane decides to do.

Glad Beane doesn't see it your way. We needed improved slot/middle of field targets, and better IOL play. Check and check, by how Beane attacked FA and draft. An aging Dhop isn't the answer, unless Diggs goes down. We have 1 all-pro WR, a lot of other weapons: Davis, Knox, Kincaid, Shakir, Harty, Cook/Harris, and just 1 football to go around. Beane built this right, the NFL salary cap isn't designed to pay 2 all-pro caliber players at WR...some teams struggle to pay 1. Way too many ppl hung up on what Cincy has, this is a child like envy behavior. Cincy soon won't have that luxury when those rookie deals expire.

So Davis goes back to being a rotational player, at best? That essentially goes against everything Beane has said and other players, about Davis. I'd be shocked if this happens

Exactly. Which makes no sense at this point. Basically relegates Davis to a glorified backup, and no chance of signing him long term (which would contradict what Beane has said). If we're looking to spend big $$$s still, it would be better used at a position of weakness, ie: possibly RT, improving pass rush