CincyBillsFan

And Bean. McD & Bean would have won a Super Bowl in the 1970's through the 1st decade of the 21st century building a team the way they have the 2019 - 2023 Bills. But today they won't. When you have THE guy at QB and anyone who thinks the Bills don't have that guy at QB are crazy, you structure the team to fully exploit his abilities. Bean/McD have not done this. So yes while Mahomes would have been very successful and like Allen clearly an elite talent with the Bills he would not have been to a Super Bowl yet.

I worry that the slide in the O lines play is simply a result of D coordinators having enough film on the two new guards to have figured out their weaknesses and how to exploit them within the Bills blocking schemes. Remember the disaster that was Scaffold didn't become apparent until about halfway into the season. I agree about Cook & Kincaid. Keeping my fingers crossed that they keep getting better. But I also thought Allen was great today. Not he whole game but in the 2nd half Allen did exactly what you want your elite franchise QB to do when the offense is struggling: right the ship and score TD's to win the game. Consider that: * The Bills had 4 meaningful possessions in the 2nd half and they scored TD's on 3 of them and only failed to score points on the 4th when Knox dropped a 4th down pass at the Pats 30 yard line. * Allen was outstanding in the 2nd half when he had to be. * Just 2 quick 2nd half stops by the D against the worst O in the NFL likely would have given the Bills two extra possessions and 10 extra points.

Fair enough and like I said my eyes were really opened the last couple of weeks. And when my information changes my mind does to. I may have been slow on the uptake and as an optimist I'm going to give the Bills staff the benefit of the doubt hear. But damn people like you who did say we were more like the Chargers then the Chiefs were right. We're starting to lose games the Charger way to. Now I hope I'm wrong here and the Bills go on a tear. The NFL is weird like that. But I don't expect it. This will leave Pegula with a tough choice at the end of the season if heaven forbid the Bills fail to make the playoffs.

The injuries should not have been a big factor against what was by most measures the worst offense and QB in the NFL. Sure I wouldn't have expected a shut out but the D forced only one 3 & out and as per usual for this group failed to stop an opponent at several key points of the game. Particularly after the offense had corrected some things and caught fire.

Please, Allen was running for his life on way to many pass plays. How many times was he hit? Most QB's would have been sacked 3 or 4 more times today. He rarely had "good protection". And so what that he missed an open Diggs on a deep pass. Seriously, Allen will miss open receivers occasionally. The issue with the offense was in part the abysmal play of the defense. Way to many people fail to appreciate just how bad our D has been the last couple of weeks. IMO it's been worse then the O because it went up against the two worst offenses in the NFL. They got lucky against the Giants at the end of the half & game with their so called "goal line stands". Today they made Mac Jones look like freaking Joe Burrow. But here's the dirty little secret the defensive boosters don't want to admit: The Bills D seldom in these games grabs hold of and changes momentum. From the Pats opening time consuming drive to take an early 3 - 0 lead to allowing the NE to go on a long time consuming FG drive AFTER the Bills had come out of the halftime locker room and scored a TD to cut the lead to 13 - 10. Even though they didn't score a lot of points how many times did the Pats move the ball today using up time and flipping the field pinning the Bills deep? Buffalo's D created ONE 3 & out. That robbed the Bills of probably 2 extra offensive possessions.

The problem is deeper then Dorsey, much deeper. Bean & McD draft the talent and sign the free agents. And except for drafting Allen and signing Diggs they have whiffed on way to many offensive picks/FA signings while allotting the lions share of resources to the defense. A defense that has repeatedly let the Bills down at crunch time. Today may not have been on the same platform as a divisional playoff game but it was an important game against a Division opponent who happened to have the worst offense in the NFL and the Bills allowed them to go 75 yards for a game winning TD as time ran out.

Actually I can. If the Bills are going to take a high risk on a high end player then how about they do it with the O line or an offensive skill player? Today opened my eyes wider then they have been. I hope I have to eat my words as the Bills go on a 10 game winning streak but I don't see it happening. There are two teams with elite franchise QB's that are underachieving and wasting the talent of their super star QB's: The LA Chargers & Buffalo Bills. And in both cases the franchises have been run by defensive minded head coaches & GM's. IMO the only reason the Bills have out performed the Chargers over the last few years is that Buffalo has a true home field advantage that is worth 1 - 2 games per season and Allen is better then Herbert which is worth another 1 - 2 games per season. Cowherd may be a blow hard but he's 100% right about the difference between offensive & defensive coaches in the 2020's. For example the Bills have had 5 seasons to get the O line right and they haven't. I rest my case.

Because only a moron with zero football knowledge would blame Allen for this game.

IMO what is holding Allen back from fully reaching his potential is roster construction not coaching. And roster construction is primarily Beane. A conscious decision was made in 2020 to direct the lions share of the teams draft capitol and free agent signings to the defense. Diggs in 2020 is the last and only big free agent signing on Offense. There was some move away from this gong into this season with draft picks and an uptick in free agent signings on offense. The bottom line is that whether or not Bean's decision was right or wrong will play out over the next couple of seasons. I believe Bean was wrong where he placed his resources but I hope I am proven wrong in this belief.

Agree. Down here in Cincinnati they had Burrow target Chase even more to the exclusion of the other receivers and the Bengal's offense has finally shown some life. And remember the Rams 2021 Super Bowl champs and how they targeted Cooper Kupp. The issue I'm seeing with Harty is that he was given plenty of targets through the first couple of weeks and I never saw him break a tackle or juke a guy out. He went down easily on first contact. It wasn't until the Miami game that he made that catch and eluded the tackler for the 1st down. As for Shakir, he's dropped a couple of passes that leave me and I;m sure Allen/Dorsey frustrated. One was that incredible pass at the end of the 1st half against Miami and another was against Washington when Allen could have ran for 15 yards and a 1st down but instead threw it to Shakir who flat out dropped it. So our best hope remains Kincaid & Shakir. They need to involve Kincaid more down field and if Shakir can stop the drops he could really boost the Bills downfield passing game. BTW, Davis is fine in that he is making big catches downfield and he is catching TD passes. We're just going to have to live with the occasional drop and the fact that he doesn't execute certain patterns well.

To be fair the problem is consistency not that we seldom make it look easy. Go back through the last three and a half seasons and there are plenty of games where the Bills offense went up and down the field. Also, we end up in 3rd and long not so much because of taking to many "low percentage chances" on 1st & 2nd down. My observations are that we lose yards on way to many 1st & 2nd down run plays and that penalties also put us into 3rd and long a lot. It seems like among the playoff contending teams the Bills have a lot of run plays that lose yardage.

Yep. Teams like Carolina, Denver, Giants, Bears and maybe Atlanta, Indy & the Vikings are the teams I think might be willing to do a deal.

This is an excellent point and very true.

Agree 100%. There is NO comparison between the playoff success of McD versus Lewis. As an aside my answer to the threads question is NO. What becomes dicey IMO is if Allen remains healthy and the Bills miss the playoffs then a conversation will need to be had.

Two observations: 1) It was mentioned that the Giants put a NT directly on Morse which was unusual for them. I suspect that DaBoll knows that the undersized Morse calls some of the O line plays and struggles when he's being pounded on every play. 2) Allen's 8/18 has to be taken in context. First the two "trips" were strange. I can watch multiple games and see that happen only once. It was odd it happened twice in one quarter. There is evidence that Allen experienced a shoulder "stinger" early in the 2nd quarter that impacted his throws. Collinsworth mentioned it a couple of times and the 8/18 could be broken down to 6/10 BEFORE the injury (with two fall down incompletions & a dropped pass) and 2/8 after.

Allen would assume responsibility for the Russia/Ukraine war. To his credit he never throws a teammate or coach under the bus. And I hope this never changes. When have any of us said Allen was perfect? That's a scarecrow you build & throw out to discredit those of us fed up with the undeserved shots certain posters take at Allen. I don't think it's trashing players or coaches to ask the question of whether we've assembled the talent needed to fully exploit having a top 3 QB. I live in Cincinnati and have observed first hand how that organization has built an offense around Burrow. And as an NFL fan I can see how the Eagles & Chiefs built offensive machines around their good (Hurts) and elite (Mahomes) QB's. Hell, SF built their offense first in the hopes a QB would show up.

I haven't read this whole thread yet so maybe this has already been pointed out but Dorsey and Allen deserve a huge amount of credit for cleaning things up in the red zone. This was a big problem from last season and they're now one of if not the best red zone team. For sure they're best passing red zone team. After last season this turnaround is no small thing.

It will help your sanity to appreciate that the vast majority of the fan base thinks Allen is doing just fine and he is the best thing to happen to the Bills since the Pegula's bought the team and kept them from being moved. What gets hard to bear is the small minority of nasty posters on 2BD who are trolling Allen and the fans. I'm just thankful that 2BD has that wonderful puke emoji which is so useful in recognizing the posts of these weirdos. And yes trashing Allen in the way that they do on a Bills message board is weird and is trolling. They claim it's constructive criticism but come on only a fool would see it as that. For constructive criticism of Allen from real Bills fans you just need to check out Gunner, Shaw & Beck, among others. Their posts are fair and evidence based.

Which is exactly what I've been saying. But it's also fair to point out that Allen seems to get a lot less help with his off target throws from his skill players not named Diggs then the other elite QB's get.

Can you enlighten us on who has been consistent this season?

We have very high expectations of Allen but you guys seem to have insanely high expectations. Again when I watch the other elite QB's in action they seem to benefit far more often from great catches and extraordinary runs after the catch then Allen does. The other elite QB's will miss on throws all the time yet be "rescued" by superb catches by their skill players. Looking at the Knox drop I have a hard time thinking that would have been a superb catch. It was a tough catch but well within the NFL norm. I've noticed that several of you posters use the same "cult" description when any Bills fans defend Allen and demand more out of our O line and skill players not named Diggs. But defending Allen from your cheap shots is actually easy when you can point to his stats and repeated wow plays in game after game.

Most people have acknowledged that Allen could have made a better throw. But as you say he can't be expected to make great throws every time. If Knox were catching 100 passes per season and was making numerous great catches you would have a point. But while Knox is solid this was the kind of slightly off target throw that he must catch to give him the benefit of doubt that you think he deserves.

Yep leading by example. The fact was that in the moment Brown was very vulnerable and at risk of getting stomped by the 2 Giants. Allen had to step in to protect a teammate.

I disagree with almost everything you and Over 29 Years a Fan say on 2BD. Allen is the Bills best player. Period, end of sentence. He is the primary reason we've been sniffing at the Super Bowl for the last 4 seasons. While Allen could improve his decision making as a natural consequence of his continuing to gain experience it's unreasonable AND unrealistic to expect him to make a big jump going forward. By any objective measure Allen is a top 5 (I think top 3) QB in the NFL. So if you really believe that Allen is a BIG part of the problem here and that his improvement is the most likley and easiest way to improve the offense then you must be in favor of parting ways with him because Allen is not getting substantially better. So come out and make the (incredibly stupid) argument for moving beyond Allen. I'm sure there are at least 27 teams that would give up whatever they had to get Allen. We should be able to get a bonanza of draft picks for him. Put up or shut up. This constant beating on Allen is wrong and unhinged.

So you're blaming Allen for the Jags loss? Incredible. For the record, if we're able to add one more QUALITY play maker and fix the O line so that it's at least AVERAGE then all Allen has to do is exactly what he's been doing for the Bills to win a Super Bowl. Imagine this team the last few seasons without Allen.