CincyBillsFan

Did you read my post? I addressed the discrepancy between the lack of 1st half production and the excellent 2nd half production. I don't have enough info to say what is causing this but I don't think it's Allen. Not when I can see how the Bills have structured their offense over the last 5 seasons. Buffalo is a defensive minded franchise that believes that surrounding an elite QB with less talent is the way to focus resources into creating an elite D. This WAS a Super Bowl winning template from the 1970's to early in the 21st century. I don't believe it's the template to win a Super Bowl TODAY. Sure it has been successful in lifting the Bills from 20 years of average to bad football to Division titles and playoff appearances but it's not enough to lift us to the next level. You seem mad at Allen because he can't lift his game to a point where the Bills O is overpowering with the talent at hand. IMO NO QB in the NFL could take this current Bills offensive talent & coaching philosophy and make it a consistently potent force. And for the record McD & Bean have NOT been able to create a consistently great D. The stats look good but every season this defense has failed the team at the most critical moments. Meanwhile, the Bills are squandering a generational talent at QB. This is what pisses me off.

We are over thinking this. What is hamstringing Allen is a bad O line and mediocre play makers not named Diggs. Watching what other teams put around their elite or just very good QB's clearly highlights just how poorly the Bills have been at doing this. Maybe the reality is that what we're seeing is the best Allen and this offense can be as currently structured & coached. A top 10 unit by the stat measures that count (points & yards) but never fully realizing the potential of the great QB at the helm. Allen & the Bills offense is looking more and more like Herbert & the Chargers. It's plain to see and we all know the common denominator.

The Dolphins game. Three straight TD drives to start the game while the D was floundering and unable to stop the fish. This put pressure on Miami to keep pace and abandon the run which played into the Bills hands. Allen and the offense have been flat IN THE FIRST HALF of the last 3 games. The London effect clearly impacted the first 2 of those games. Yesterday, Belichick out coached Dorsey & McD by a wide margin. The Bills only scored 10 points with just 1 TD in the 1st half of those games. They also missed a FG. That prorates to 20 points IF their 2nd half performance mirrored their first half showing. But there is a 2nd half of football and the Bills offense looked a lot better. They've scored 49 points and scored 7 TD's but also missed 2 FG's. That prorates to 98 points (33 points per game). So you see there is a lot more going on here then "highly paid Allen sucks".

I'm sure about 28 other teams would give up almost anything to acquire our "250 M" QB. So what's your point? Are you putting this loss on Allen playing poorly and being inaccurate? What's your definition of accuracy - completing 95% of his passes and being on time with every throw? Were you in the film room to conclude that Allen was late on his throw to Knox? Maybe Knox was the 3rd read? As it is that was a very catchable ball and it wasn't caught. Judas Priest must every Allen throw be perfect because the Bills receivers can't make contested catches? And I doubt Allen "picked Dorsey" I suspect that Allen approved of Dorsey as OC after the Bills management had approved of him taking the job. You keep talking about Allen being the "top paid player" when in fact by NFL standards and his own production he is underpaid. Allen wasn't brilliant yesterday but he played well enough to win and he led the Bills to a comeback victory with an excellent 2nd half performance. Oh wait the D allowed the worst QB & worst offense in the NFL to go down and score a TD to win the game at the end so I was wrong about Allen leading that comeback win.

First over the last 5 years the majority of the draft & free agent resources have been given to the defense at the expense of the offense. Second, the Offense has frequently picked up the struggling defense over the last 4 seasons. This year it was the offense keeping pace with the Dolphins that allowed the D to settle into place. Yesterday the offense did all it could to pick up the D in the 2nd half. Just don't let the Pats score a TD on that last drive and the worst outcome is a FG and OT.

Then by your definition Allen is a great QB because over his career he has overcome mediocre coaching and offensive talent to lead the Bills to 4 straight playoff berths, 3 straight division titles and one AFC Championship game. And he did this for a franchise that went 18 years with ONE playoff berth (miracle backing into the playoffs) and no division titles or playoff wins. 18 years. How did the Chiefs do in the 5 years before Mahomes arrived?

KC's skill players may not be more talented but their offensive coaching and Offensive line are significantly better then the Bills.

That's fair and was my position up to a couple of games ago. I changed my mind when someone posted that if you're going to take a chance on a high end/high risk talent and you have Allen at QB you do it on the offensive side of the ball.And I agree. Bean & McD have focused on building the kind of late 20th/early 21st century defenses that used to win Super Bowls. But this mindset won't work in the 3rd decade of the 21st century. If you're going to swing for the fences do it on the offensive side of the ball. Like signing McCaffrey.

There's a lot of truth here. I've been banging the O line and they have regressed while others are blaming Allen and he's been average in the 1st half of the last 3 games but Allen and the offenses production, including the O line play, has been very good in the 2nd half of all 3 games. That's a fact every bit as true and observable as the Bills offense has struggled in the 1st half.

The biggest thing for me is that the O line is now playing terribly. As bad as last year. I worry that defensive coaches have enough film on the two new guards and have identified their weaknesses within the Bills blocking schemes. We saw something similar last season where it took about 7 or 8 games before opponents realized how bad Saffold and Brown were. I may come across as an Allen homer but given how the O line had played the last 3 weeks I think Allen has performed very well. Most QB's would have had nightmarish games facing the pressure he has. The push we've been seeing right up the gut is devastating under the best of circumstances but with a weak right tackle to boot it's hard to overcome. In fact Allen is one of the few QB's that can make something out of these tough situations. From you keyboard to God's ear!

You said he wasn't "patient" I showed you evidence that in the last two games he was plenty patient. As far as comparing Allen directly to Mahomes over the last 5 plus seasons how can I when Mahomes has enjoyed significantly better offensive coaching; significantly better weapons and a significantly better O line? Apples and oranges.

I wonder the same about you? Did you watch the drives against the Giants and Pats where Allen was extremely patient? Allen took what the D gave him and also made a couple of plays that only he or Mahomes could make. Against the Giants the TD drives were: 89 yards in 17 plays & 75 yards in 12 plays. Against the Pats: FG was 57 yards in 13 plays; the missed FG was 51 yards in 12 plays; the 1st TD was 81 yards in 10 plays and the TO on downs with the dropped pass was 42 yards on 13 plays, Seems to me the last two games the problem was not Allen's lack of patience. Maybe he was being to patient? Yea because using one 1st round pick to draft either Darnold (assuming he moved down if the Jets picked Allen) or Rosen would have been the height of football wisdom.

You don't have to be wearing "Bills glasses" to see that the way the bills structured their team after Allen was drafted would not have worked any better with Mahomes. In fact the bad O line and lack of multiple elite play makers on the Bills from 2018 - 2022 might have meant that Mahomes would have struggled on the Bills. It was Allen's physical gifts that allowed him to survive and often thrive with an inferior O line. And for the record I'm not saying Mahomes would not have thrived on the Bills and been considered elite. He would have been successful in the same way Allen has just minus the Super Bowl wins like Allen. To say Allen doesn't have the same drive as Mahomes is a crappy cheap shot. Allen has had to overcome a lot more to reach an elite status then Mahomes has had to.

What, you want great play both half's all the time? Do you watch NFL football? Allen was meh in the first half and exceptional in the 2nd half. The Bills got a 3 point lead with 2 minutes left in the game and the D let the Pats go 75 yards for the winning TD. And that was that.

The Bills scored TD's on 3 possessions in the 2nd half only missing scoring a 4th TD on their fourth possession because of a dropped 4th down pass. So Allen wasn't exactly "meh" in the 2nd half.

This is has been especially true the last 3 seasons. It not only robs the offense of possessions it leaves them on the sideline getting antsy and often flips the field against Buffalo putting the Bills inside there own 20. We saw that happen today on a couple of drives.

So you believe that had the Bills drafted Mahomes it would have turned out any differently then how it did with Allen? I don't and I'm curious as to why you think it would have. I am convinced that had Buffalo drafted Mahomes in 2017 then KC picked Allen in 2018 the Chiefs would still have those 2 SB wins but with Allen at QB and the Bills with Mahomes would have looked a lot like they have under Allen.

I was so pissed off I didn't stay for the Pats extra point!

I turned the TV off after the Pats scored that last TD. I was just talking to a friend from Buffalo who said that Allen threw a deep pass that Diggs should have caught putting the Bills in FG position. Is this right?

I doubt he minds having the game on his shoulder I think he welcomes it. But the Bills have not structured an offense to take advantage of what Allen does best. Frankly they have been criminally negligent in this regard. Look at that O line and the skill players not named Diggs. Now check out the Eagles, 49's, Dolphins, Bengals & Chiefs.

Allen played great in the 2nd half. They scored 3 TD's and a 2 pt conversion on four possessions and only a Knox 4th down drop kept if from being 4 TD's on 4 possessions. That's two straight games where the offense and Allen were excellent in the 2nd half. This indicates to me a structural problem not some type of issue with Allen. If I had to guess the recent deterioration of this season's O line has gotten into Allen's head. For something like the 5th straight season the Bills are fielding a below average O line. This season is shaping up to be back to back years with a much below average O line. Allen always has to worry about his right side and now were seeing the almost immediate pressure up the middle that many of us thought was gone with the signing of McGovern and drafting of Torrence. It's inexcusable that Bean/McD have not been able to fix the O line. And frankly the draft capital & free agent signings for this unit have not indicated that this is a high priority by management. And that is the crux of the problem and emblematic of how defensive oriented coaches & GM's think.

I kind of agree. Let the season play out with McD/Dorsey. No big signings either. If they right the ship and we go on and win the division and win at least one playoff game then we keep the status quo and try to tweak our way to a Super Bowl. But if we don't make the playoffs then a day after the season ends coaching and GM heads roll and we turn the direction of the franchise 180 degrees.

If you don't think Allen is "elite" you don't know football. So please lose the damn quotation marks. I think it's obvious that as a whole the Bill's offense is not elite. The times they do look "elite" is when Allen & Diggs are playing great and firing on all cylinders. But it's a mirage created by the FACT that Allen & Diggs are truly elite and can raise the level of the offenses play. Sure the D has been hit hard by injuries but NE had the worst QB & offense in the NFL and yet went up and down the field.

Like Herbert. The defensive mindset and talent surrounding Allen is not fixable when Allen is being reined in and the offense structured to please Bean & MCD. Sorry but we are in deep trouble if Allen can't make this offense work. And IMO it's not on Allen.

Two of those games involved the London hangover. But yes, unless we see an immediate improvement, the offensive problems may not be fixable with the current coaching & talent on the Bills. The ONLY solution may be to go all in on hero ball Allen. Sure that will mean there will be a couple of clunkers but there will be a lot more highly productive offensive games like we saw the last 2 years. Allen & Diggs are the only excellent players on Offense. After them you have average to below average talent at every position. Maybe Kincaid will rise above that as he's shown glimpses of the productive player he could be. And if we're lucky Cook will join him.