CincyBillsFan

But doesn't this just illustrate that even the elite QB's can have bad games? Remember Mahomes stunk up the joint against NE in an AFC title game before having a brilliant 2nd half. There is more to the advantage an elite QB gives a team going to and winning a Super Bowl then their play. There is an aura of confidence they bestow on the whole team that is difficult to quantify but IMO very real.

Eight of the last 9 Super Bowl winning teams have been led by elite QB's including the last 5 in a row (Brady, Stafford & Mahomes). So things seem to have changed.

So you're blaming Allen for the D blowing three games where the Bills had the lead with less then 2 m9nutes to go?

Given his production in TN and the "quality" of QB's throwing to him D Hop would clearly be the #2 guy in Buffalo. In fact he would be the 1B guy. And his presence would draw coverage away from Diggs. The Bills made a choice and they went with defense. And you can argue that from a defensive standpoint it was the right choice. But therein lies the problem, the best teams with the best chances of making and winning a SB are all focusing on their offense. Even Baltimore with it's great D spent the off season focusing on the O and helping Jackson out. I would love to know the answer to this question.

Kincaid is tracking the ball while the DB, who is likely faster, is desperately chasing him to catch up. What else would you expect? That throw was perfect and the play gained what it was supposed to. Again watch the throw and catch in real time and there is not an appreciable slow down by Kincaid. Had Allen thrown that pass further there would have been a good chance it would have been over thrown or Kinciad in racing to catch up to it would have gone to the turf laying out for the ball. There are passes that Allen misses that warrant criticism like the deep ball to Diggs. But throwing shade at Allen over the pass to Kincaid is an example of Allen Derangement Syndrome.

It is unreasonable to claim that Allen under threw Kincaid on that play. The ball was perfectly thrown and your freeze frame pictures do not change that. Watch the throw in real time and see just how smooth it is. As an aside in picture #1 Kincaid is open at the 41 yard line (near the hash) and the clock reads 13:41. The 2nd & 3rd pictures show Kincaid catching the ball in stride at the 34 yard line about a yard further from the hash and the clock reads 13:40. That's about 8 yards traveled in less then a second. Hardly slowing down.

Good question. My guess is that McD/Bean were hoping to replicate the success they had bringing in Brown & Beasley in 2019. Obviously they missed. I don't know if we could have signed D Hopp with our CAP restrictions. My guess is that if we signed D Hop we wouldn't have been able to sign Floyd and Floyd has been a difference maker on the D. But these are the tough choices that a GM/Coach must make and an offensive minded coach would have signed D Hop and the defensive minded coach Floyd. The Bengals let two very good safeties go in order to put more FA money into their O line. That's how an offensive minded coach with an elite QB thinks. For the record, and given the performance of both Floyd & D Hop (68 catches for 1011 yrds & 6 TD's) Hopkins would have been the better signing. Can you imagine his numbers with Allen throwing the ball and not the collection of misfits in TN?

I agree with you if this was a stand alone event. But the mishandling of Allen's rookie year and the surreal trust in Peterman speak to a bigger problem with McD and offense in general and QB's in particular. Again, my main reason for wanting to move on from McD is that when a franchise has an elite, generational talent at QB you will better exploit this good fortune with an offensive minded coach who surrounds that QB with the best possible offensive talent. For the record I would love to be proven wrong here as I don't see McD being replaced anytime soon. But all the evidence I see in today's NFL supports my concerns of McD.

That's fair but in the end Allen was thrown to the wolves in week 2 without having taken very many 1st team reps in training camp and the preseason. Even worse he was thrown into the fire with an offense that had been dismantled by management in the off season. The reality is that McD & Bean's best laid plans went up in smoke when Peterman could not generate a single 1st down after NINE straight possessions. The fact remains that a complete misjudgment by McD & Bean about Peterman AND MaCaran ruined any chance that their reasonable plan for Allen would work. And for some of us this can be directly attributed to the fact that the Bills management & coaching embraces a defense first philosophy.

I disagree. Looking at how McD & Bean handled Allen his rookie year is an insight into how the Bills have handled him and the offense over the last 6 seasons. My and other peoples arguments about why we need to move on from McD have been twofold: * As a defensive coach McD will commit more resources to the defense then to the offense. And he will always be more comfortable with defensive players and schemes then offensive players and schemes starting with the QB. * Both Bean & McD are much less effective at judging offensive talent then they are defensive talent. I truly hope I'm wrong and McD/Bean can find a resolution to this quandary. But until we make a Super Bowl with the current coaching/management group I remain skeptical. The idea that teams with elite caliber QB's should have offense minded coaching is compelling to me.

If fans know not to trust preseason game results shouldn't coaches be expected to also know this? The only consistency we ever saw out of Peterman in actual NFL games was his amazing ability to set NFL records for sucking. Who can forget his two pick sixes in only two games, after Allen went down with an injury in 2018. That McD & Bean thought Peterman could play is a major mystery to me.

Bean & McD deliberately blew the offense up that season. The problem and it's one of the reasons I'm not thrilled abut McD or Bean is they completely misread the value of McCarron and Peterman. After Peterman set another impressive NFL record in QB futility, NINE straight possessions without a 1st down, to go along with his 5 INT first half performance the previous season. the Bills ad no choice but to throw Allen to the lions. Can you imagine the fans reaction had Peterman been put on the field against Sand Diego in week 2? As it was Allen's first 3 games were against three of the best D's in football at that time: the Chargers at home and the Vikings & Packers on the road.

The reality is that McD & Bean screwed up Allen's rookie year about as badly as you could. Allen himself and DaBall are responsible for his surviving and towards the end even thriving. Agree 100%. Bean & McD completely screwed up the plans for Allen in 2018. To their credit they shook the cobwebs off and fired those two horrible WR's (Bengiman & Holmes) and brought in veteran help for Allen. But the credit for Allen not busting goes to DaBoll and Allen himself.

Allen hit him perfectly in stride what the hell are you talking about?

He also did great in that Indy playoff game to.

I would rather have Allen's proven track record in the playoffs then his having Jackson's TO's this season. BTW Jackson turned over the ball 13 times this season. Less then Allen but not insignificant. I would also rather have Allen's durability as Jackson in back to back seasons suffered season ending injuries which negatively impacted how those seasons turned out. And I agree that fewer TO's by Allen would have led to more Bills wins. But also stopping two very bad offenses, NE & Denver, from going down the field in the last 2 minutes of the game to beat the Bills after Allen had secured the lead kept us from being 12 - 4 and chasing he Ravens for the #1 seed. Well your memory appears to be flawed if you think Allen is worse this year then he was in 2019.

That's true but Jackson's late game pick six against the Browns didn't help ether. I think Jackson will win this years MVP but there will be a lot of other guys getting a decent amount of votes. For the record Jackson's challenge isn't winning a 2nd MVP but playing well and winning some playoff games. In Jackson's 4 playoff games to date (1 - 3 record) he has not been exceptional in any one of them and he's been bad in 3 of them.

Were you visiting Tibet after the Bills lost to the Jets? A lot of people brought up Allen's bad game. In fact it entered beating a dead horse territory with all the glee & gloating 2BD's resident Allen critics talked abut it. Again, if it's Allen's fault and not the coaching then are you arguing that the Bills should move on from Allen if we miss the playoffs this year?

"Widely inaccurate" and "throwing numerous passes into the dirt"? I call BS on that observation. In fact the only throws into the turf that I can recall were deliberately put there by Allen to avoid getting the WR blown up and losing 5 yards on the completion. I am forever thankful that 2BD offers that wonderful vomit emoji to confer on crap like the above post. Tell me again why you put your thoughts on 2BD? Is it really that big of a turn on to troll other fan bases?

Let me get this right: you're saying that the Finns will be more motivated to bounce back from an epic beat down and to deny the Bills a spot in the playoffs then by actually winning the division? Are you serious? And if the same Dolphin team that showed up against he Ravens shows up in Miami Sunday night then the Bills are likely to win and win big.

It also depends on what you're used to. If you're coming from a cold climate and you've acclimated to temps in the 30's, 75 in he sun can seem pretty damn hot. Sure it's not at bad as September but it could wear players down. The key as other posters have pointed out is getting the game out of the sun.

Bingo. We lucked out and got a rare talent at QB. The job was and continues to be to surround this generational talent with exceptional play makers, O line and offensive coaching.

Interesting question. First my disclaimer: McD deserves the credit for turning the franchise around and building a winning culture - that is undeniable IMO. The problem as I see it is that at this moment in NFL history defensive coaches are not getting to or winning Super Bowl games. Belicheck, the greatest defensive mind in NFL history, was the last with his masterful 13 - 3 SB victory over the Rams in the 2017 season. Since then the SB has been dominated by offensive minded coaches and franchises. As a defensive coach and a franchise which has focused the lions share of its resources on the defense, the Bills do not appear to be set up to make a SB let alone win one. Their competition in the AFC the last few years, KC & Cincy, have clearly road their offenses to much better outcomes. Even the Ravens made a definitive move to focus more on their offense (new coaches and some big FA signings). So yes, even after the Bills recent run I would favor replacing McD with an offensive coach. But now the caveats: * If the Bills make the SB obviously you keep McD and the theory that the NFL is now dominated by offensive minded coaches would be moot. * We may be seeing a return to defense as the more important factor then offense in the NFL. If so then obviously McD would have a leg up on most competition. * Could a defensive minded coach like McD who going forward supported focusing the lions share of the Bills FA money & draft capitol on the offense and who was okay with hiring an experienced "name" OC win a SB? For me this next game and any followup layoff games will determine whether the Bills should move on from McD. And I say "should" because I agree with other posters that Pegula will not fire McD no matter what happens this Sunday in Miami. McD job security will just be a discussion point on 2BD.

So are you advocating that we move on from Allen instead of McD?

One of the things that bugs me about the over the top criticism of Allen from a minority of posters that shows up on 2BD after Allen has an average game is just how perfect a fit his is for the Bills & Buffalo. I can't imagine any QB available since 2017 that could have replicated Allen's success with the Bills. How about 1st round picks in 2017? Let's start with the best of them in Mahomes. I doubt that he would have thrived as he has in KC under a defensive focused franchise with a defensive minded head coach. Sure Mahomes would still have been good but he lacks some of Allen's attributes (proactive running ability) that was a unique fit for a Bills organization without great Offensive skill players and spending draft picks & FA money on building an elite D. Sorry but Bengamin at WR and Clay at TE were not going to make anyone forget about Hill & Kelsey. Then there's Turbisky & Watson. Enough said or is someone going to argue for those two over Allen? In 2018 we have the busts like Darnold & Rosen and the average play of Mayfield. Then there is Jackson who is likley to win a 2nd MVP but has only ONE playoff win on a team that makes the playoffs a lot. No way he thrives on a Bills team that is unlikely to have put in a custom made O just for him. They haven't done it for Allen so why do we think they would have for Jackson? Burrow would have been nice but we would have needed to have the first pick in the draft to get him. And do people think he would have thrived in Buffalo versus Cincinnati that had all those great WR's? Or we could have waited until later drafts and grabbed "elite" talents like Zack Wilson, Justin Fields or Danial Jones (all of whom went higher then Allen). Even Trevor Lawrence doesn't look like he's going to be anywhere near as productive as Allen. Did I miss anyone? So Allen is the perfect fit for the Bills and the city of Buffalo. He is an elite QB who is ridiculously productive. Is he perfect? No. Can he play better, particularly cutting down TO's and being more consistent? Yes. But even if Allen stops improving he is the best QB option we could have gotten over the last 7 years and we're damn lucky to have him. And even if he doesn't improve any further he is more then good enough to lead the Bills to a Super Bowl win. So instead of worrying about what Allen needs to do to get a little better we need to focus on making sure the Bills - like the Chiefs, Bengals, Ravens and other teams with elite QB have done - focus the franchises resources against surrounding their top QB with all the necessary tools to optimize his performance. Anything less and we'll be crying about what could have been for decades.