CincyBillsFan

But it's more then it should be. When we drafted Allen, the detractors, and there was a sizable minority of them among the Bills posting fan base, claimed that he would be a bust and NEVER be a starting caliber QB. Then after he showed flashes of excellence during the first half of last season the number of folks claiming he would be a bust declined but not by a lot. Then after he showed solid growth in his game after the injury the detractors still harped on Allen's accuracy & decision making "issues". Allen gave us good reason to be optimistic about his being a franchise QB with the way he closed out last season. Sure, he was still a work in progress but the persistent negativism & pickiness of the Allen detractors got old during the off season. Hell we had 20 page arguments about the definition of "accuracy" as the Allen haters, and yes they come across as haters, analyzed every throw he made. Frankly it got silly. Now after a strong off season by the Bills upgrading the offense and a strong training camp & pre-season by Allen we had a reason to be optimistic about Allen going into the season. And after the first two games our optimism has been reinforced. I just think the time has come to get behind Allen. Constructive criticism is fine and makes for a better message board but the assessment of Allen by the haters is just annoying. It doesn't add anything to the discussion IMO. Oh and for the record GunnerBill I love your takes on Allen. Your tough but fair and since I can be overly optimistic you point out stuff that I don't see or appreciate. This allows me to temper my optimism with some realism.

It appears that Allen is now working under the new "perfection" criteria where QB's are judged harshly if EVERY throw isn't perfect. I need to know where the hell this insanity come from? It sure didn't come from watching the NFL.

My goodness this is the very definition of DEPRESSED! I would love to see the Bills go to 4 straight Super Bowl games again before I die. Hell going to another SB would be awesome. And even if they lose every one I'm laying in my coffin with a smile on my face.

Context is everything.

I could have sworn Allen "cleaned it up" in the 4th quarter last week. You know the quarter where he was on fire leading the Bills to two 80+ yard TD drives to win the game! Details & context matter.

You mean a defense like the Raiders that Mahomes chewed up yesterday? Now that was an elite secondary. The Bills play who they play. And don't lose hope, I'm sure a couple of defenses will shut Allen down and make him look like the inexperienced 2nd year project QB that he is. But then again just like you want to see Allen against better defenses I would love to see Allen with the Rams or Chiefs skill players! We can all play the glass is half empty/half full game.

I agree 100%. It's the eye test baby and Allen passes that one. My guess is all this numbers stuff is a natural reaction by human beings who want to control every situation. It's in our genetics. Football is a violent, chaotic game that is also tightly controlled and planned out. It really is a form of "war" carried out in a much less fatal environment. Analyzing the numbers gives us a false confidence that we actually can predict events. Clearly there is a place in football for statistical analysis. And yes such analysis can provide insight into players and teams. But they're are over analyzing things; particularly for Allen. I mean EVERY SINGLE PASS he throws is critiqued. This isn't the Olympic Diving Championships! Hell some of the biggest plays a QB makes is when they throw it up for grabs and a WR comes down with a 50 yard TD!

I agree about there being a different feeling. Just contrast the first 2 games from this season to last season. Sure the Jets/Giants aren't as good as the Ravens/Chargers but people were seriously arguing at this point last season that the Bills couldn't beat Alabama! First, the defense is elite. While we've had a good defense the last two seasons over the last 20 years we've had some awful defenses. IMO having a great defense provides a foundation that makes you think you can win every game and beat the big boys. Second, Allen looks to be a step above the QB's we've had here since Kelly. It's not the numbers that convince but the demeanor, leadership and stunning plays that this guy makes. He appears to be a clutch player which is worth it's weight in gold for a QB. Allen also has a short memory, essential for great QB's & DB's. Think about last years Miami game where he threw a bad pick 6 to allow the Dolphins to tie the game right before halftime then comes out to lead a long TD drive at the start of the 3rd quarter. Even better was his 4th quarter performance against the Jets. This was after the 1st 3 quarters where everything that could go wrong did go wrong. Third, from the ownership to the GM to the head coach and coaching staff there appears to be a plan. They don't seem like they're winging it as they to often did before.

I didn't have a problem with what the Bills did I was just pointing out that they seemed to down shift the offense in the 3rd quarter and this was by design. I also believe that it will come back to bite them in the ass at some point. But over the course of an entire season this type of strategy, given how good the defense is, will probably lead to more wins then losses. And even though they were still throwing the ball they seemed to do it more out of 2 TE sets with a FB and it didn't seem like they were using their whole playbook. And as others have pointed out the Bills O got sloppy in the 3rd quarter with a dropped pass and a couple of false start penalties. But I'm fine with this while at the same time I was frustrated by it as well. Like I posted earlier - my heart says keep the pedal to the metal while my head says the Bills managed the game in the right way.

It may not be impressive from an NFL standpoint but the fact that Allen is the first one to have seven straight 200 yard games passing since Kelly in 1992 is pretty amazing. That's 27 years. It also says two things: * Allen is starting to establish himself as a true heir to Jim Kelly. Whether you're talking about his 4th quarter come back wins or this streak of 200 yard passing games, he's showing us that he may be the guy. * This streak also highlights just how futile the Bill's QB'ing has been over the last 25 years. A flash here and there but very little consistency. Dare we hope?

My first expectation is that Allen leads us to a WIN. That has happened two weeks in a row. If he does that he's already flirting with an A. My second expectation is that he's clutch. Sure a QB can complete a couple of nice passes at the end of the half that take their team from the 15 yard line to midfield then the half is over. Or on 3rd & 20 a QB can throw a beautiful 17 yard pass. But that's not clutch, that's just numbers. Clutch is taking his team on a 98 yard drive to break the game open. Allen gets a lot of credit for making some terrific throws on a drive that I kept saying "let's at least get the ball out to the 30 so we can get a good punt off". That TD drive was way more important then everything the O didn't do in a lethargic 3rd quarter. Clutch was Allen leading the Bills on a long 4th quarter TD drive after the Giants had cut the lead to 7. The key play was an amazing scramble & throw by Allen. In fact Allen's play in both 4th quarters, on the road, has been outstanding and the very definition of clutch.

But a lot of receivers catch that ball GunnerBill. I'll wait for the replay's but I thought it was a good throw under the circumstances.

It's going to depend on the game situation. If they're locked in a shoot out with Brady and up by two scores in the 3rd they'll need to keep attacking. But today they were confident that Eli & the Giants were not going to score on any 2 minute 75 yard drives. As a fan I'm not thrilled with that type of thinking but then again I watch these games with my heart NOT my head. Fortunately for all of us the coaches use a little more of their brains in managing these games.

My grade is an A for the simple reason that we won and like last week he was instrumental in our victory. The offensive explosion in the late 1st/2nd quarter was all Allen. The 98 yard drive was as beautiful as it was improbable. Sure the 3rd quarter sucked and that was a combination of by design and some sloppy play by the offense. But when the Bills needed Allen to come through he did leading a masterful TD drive in the 4th to seal the win. Looking only at his numbers he gets a B+ but taking into account his clutch play when we needed it most (98 yard TD drive and 4th quarter TD drive) and the fact that the Bills won he gets an A+. So by averaging a B+ & A+ I get an A. Now that's my kind of analytics!

I get the frustration and was yelling at the TV like a lot of other people. BUT this is how the Bills are going to play it, at least for the first half of the season. The reality is that we're going to lose a game because of doing this - guaranteed. But in defense of the coaches we'll never know how many games we will win because we put the onus on the defense to protect a 2 score lead. My guess is we'll win more then we lose doing this.

He's smart to. On the run that got us the 1st down and sealed the game late he was clapping while lying on the ground. There wasn't a wasted motion on that run as he understand exactly where he had to get to for the dagger to be driven into the Giants heart.

Here are some random comments on this game: * Get used to what we did in the 3rd quarter because when we're on the road in the 2nd half up by 2 scores we're not going to hand a team a score by being overly aggressive on offense. This is how the Bills are built. Great defense that is very difficult to drive 75 yards for a TD on. Now once the lead is cut to one score then they take the shackles off and get more aggressive on offense. At home though, look for the Bills to go for the kill when they get up by 10 - 14 points. * Allen was superb today. The growth we're seeing in this kid from game to game is astonishing. He threw 30 passes and had only 2 bad throws - the deep overthrow to Brown and the quick slant to Foster. He had a couple of smart throw away passes and about 15 perfect throws all over the field. Allen has shown me through just two games that he can make EVERY throw accurately now. Think about that for a moment - he is accurately throwing EVERY type of pass. Allen's accuracy "issues" have officially entered the land of make believe. Allen is accurate. * On the topic of Allen, that TD drive in the 4th quarter after the Giants had cut the lead to 7 was a thing of beauty. The 3rd down conversion where Allen put a move on a Giants defensive lineman to get outside would have made Thurman Thomas proud. And the throw was a carbon copy of a whole bunch of clutch passes he threw while on the run at Wyoming. * On the topic of the O-line I thought they struggled at times and the false start penalties contributed to our lackluster 3rd quarter. BUT, Mitch Morse is an awesome center. His downfield run blocking is amazing and have you noticed that there isn't a lot of immediate pressure on Allen up the middle. * Beasley & Brown have been amazing through 2 games. And was it me or did Zay Jones drop a great TD throw by Allen? * Dawson Knox had a highlight reel block on McKenzie's TD. * Edmunds is very close to becoming a dominant middle LB. That almost pick six was incredible for what it showed about our 250 pound MLB's athleticism & speed. Truly awesome. * As far as playing 4 great quarters? Do people watch any other NFL games? I mean KC was down 10 - 0 in the 1st quarter to Oakland! * One final thought - going back to last weeks 4th quarter performance our offense has looked very explosive. With 9 new guys and a 2nd year QB they have the potential to be a real force in the 2nd half of the season. That 98 yard drive today in the 2nd quarter was sublime.

It's sad to watch the end of Cam's career. It reminds me of Kelly's last season when suddenly he couldn't make certain throws and defensive coordinators became aware of it. In Newton's case it's worse because BOTH his am AND his legs are failing. D-coordinators no longer fear cam's mobility which means they can sell out to stop CMAC. It's a testament to McCaffrey that he's been as productive as he's been the last 10 games facing this situation. Of course it would be unfair to put this all on Cam. With one of the best TE's & RB's in the NFL; solid WR's and a QB that can still execute at 80% the Panthers should be able to field an offense that can win games like last night. The biggest problem facing Carolina is their offensive line. It is beyond horrible. What good is an O-line when it can't run block OR pass block.

I hate the exclusive use of the cable & end zone cameras. If it's safe for the fans in the UPPER DECKS then it's safe for the cameramen on the ground.

Judas priest what kind of cowards work for Fox sports! The stadium is FULL of people, the refs and players are on the field but these panty wastes won't put their video operators in harms way because there was some lightening earlier! The cable cm is a terrible way to watch the game. My advice is to cut back on the booze because watching this game is like being on a boat in choppy water.

I actually don't think your crazy here. Sure the odds favor the Pats by 35 points and I wouldn't bet a dime that the Dolphins will cover whatever spread emerges BUT remember last year after the Bills went 0 - 2 and folks were debating whether they could beat Alabama? And they were going to Minnesota, a potential Super Bowl team, in week 3? How many people had them up on the Vikings 27 - 0 at half? Zero, nada, nyet!

Yep, you don't get benched right after completing a 40 yard pass!

This is exactly right. I also think the analytics folks grossly overrate the predictive nature of their modeling. The level of variability inherent in EVERY NFL pass play requires a HUGE sample size of plays to have any chance of the model being accurate. This means that the analytics would expect to do poorly in evaluating QB's with less then 5 years of playing experience. The other thing I would add is while the "truth" of Allen is somewhere between the two extremes it's a lot closer to what we fans see then what the analytics guys see. Bills fans (at least the real ones) want Allen to succeed so they will engage in some level of confirmation bias. I know I do. However, the reality is that QB's entering their 2nd year in the NFL are almost ALWAYS a work in progress. They will make mistakes and bone headed plays. This is a given and especially true where a team like the Bills was rebuilding it's offense at the SAME time they brought in Allen. No one can dispute that Mahomes & Jackson walked into much better situations then Allen, Rosen, Darnold and even Mayfielde did. So we fans look for the positive. We expect negative stuff to happen. You can call it "confirmation bias" but we see 3 great throws followed by a bad throw as overall being good for a 2nd year guy in a way we wouldn't for a 7 year vet. We fans also look for evidence that a young QB is IMPROVING and with Allen it's indisputable that he is. We fans also look at the intangibles (try mathematically modeling them) like leadership, competitiveness & the ability to learn. Again Allen shows out very good here.

Damn, though it was only ONE game even Allen's biggest supporters probably wouldn't have predicted he would make a list like that so soon in this season.

I'll go with Kubiack here who thought it was a great throw. From what we know about that play: * I saw an analysis showing how Allen froze the Safety in place on that play with his eyes which resulted in Brown getting single coverage. * With Brown seeing single coverage he EXPECTED Allen to throw the ball back shoulder (under throw) based on the fact that the Jet's corner had taken away the over the top throw. Which given the situation - Jet's up by 6 under 4 minutes to play - one would expect a CB to do. No way is the Jets defense going to get beat over the top here. For this reason, at the snap Brown probably figured that if Allen could look the safety off then the ONLY play to be made would be the back shoulder throw. * It was obvious by the SMOOTH way in which Brown caught the pass and made a move to score the TD that this was exactly the pass he expected to get. * We also know from reports that Allen & Brown have worked on this pass a lot during the preseason.