CincyBillsFan

I saw the game a lot differently then you did that's for sure. Rosen was a wreck out there. He missed several open receivers, threw 3 INTs and should have had 2 more. Was careless with the ball fumbling 3 times & losing 2 of them. His poor start doomed Arizona as they were down 21 - 3 in the 1st largely due to Rosen miscues. He also appeared to make several audibles on the run game and every time the play went for nothing. Denver was clearly fooling him into thinking he could change the run play/blocking. Most disturbing if I was an Arizona fan was Rosen's demeanor which was piss poor. He openly threw a fit a couple of times after things didn't go his way which won't earn you many friends when your a rookie that's thrown 2 pick-sixes. Now does last nights game mean Rosen won't be a great NFL QB? Absolutely not. All we saw was what happens when a rookie QB with a weak O-line goes up against a team with a decent pass rush. Kind of like what Allen has faced this year only that in addition to a struggling O-line Allen has very little receiver talent around him. My bet is that both Allen & Rosen will be at worst solid NFL QB's. But only TIME will tell. What I won't accept is any suggestion that Rosen is the better QB then Allen. Last night should put that to rest.

That's fair and while I think the Cards have a better assortment of receiver options for Rosen then the Bills have for Allen their O-line is clearly inferior to the Bills. But to also be fair the improvement in the Bills O-line play is due to both better play by the Bills linemen and Allen's mobility.

It may not be teaching us anything about Allen but it sure as hell is calibrating Allen's performance relative to one of the other rookie QB's.

Long time lurker though. My point was just that Bills fans and I suspect Cards fans are going to be comparing Rosen & Allen for as long as both are in the NFL. And for the record I think they'll both have long NFL careers. BTW, why the hell is Rosen still out there? Do they want to get him killed?

Disagree, for reasons beyond either QB's control Allen & Rosen are joined at the hip because of the actions of their teams on draft day. Hell, we're posting on a thread titled "The Rosen Era has Begun in Arizona" on a freaking Buffalo Bills message board! That is weird if you think about it.

Wrong. Rosen is teaching a lot of people on this board that rookie QB's playing on bad offenses tend to struggle big time. On top of that it seems like since the day Allen was drafted by Buffalo, there have been a lot of Bills fans complaining that we should have drafted Rosen. It may not be right but a performance like this by Risen does take some of the pessure off Allen.

Is it me or has every run audible Rosen made at the LOS resulted in either no gain or a loss?

Can we all agree that Fitzgerald is a far better receiver today then KB is? It's clear that he's Rosen's security blanket.

This is a good example of why you have to be careful with stats. Rosen got a TD pass on a nice throw but during that drive the Broncos dropped 2 INT's. Again, I'm not seeing anything tonight that would suggest that Rosen is ahead of Allen.

It's inevitable that the two will be compared. And when you have hundreds (or is it thousands) of posts on this message board arguing that the Bills should have drafted Rosen over Allen what else would you expect?

If I was an Arizona Cards fan this is what would have me worried. Say what you will about Allen and his struggles he's never thrown the fits I've seen Rosen throw in the 1st half tonight. Not a good look IMO.

Okay when it mattered Rosen was 8/17 for 60 yards and with 2 INT's. His completion percentage is under 50% with less then 3.5 yards and attempt. The reason I post these stats is that you have to assume Denver will go into a big time prevent defense and that Rosen will have much better stats.

Great catch. This guy is a tool and I guess tools are going to tool.

Fair to say that Rosen is flustered. Missed an open guy badly and is clearly feeling the heat of the pass rush. Almost had another pick 6 on that weak side line pass.

Rookie QB's on bad offensive teams equals bad QB play. I agree with you about Allen having the "it" factor. In a couple of years when both Josh's are doing well that may be the point of difference.

Look for Rosen's numbers to improve as Denver goes into a prevent defense.

If you look at the Cleveland versus Chargers game, Mayfield had about exactly the same amount of success that Allen did.

I wanted Allen over Rosen. But frankly even after this entire season you're not going to know which one of these guys was the better pick. For sure we can't judge them game to game. The one thing we can say is that both QB's have struggled as would be expected for rookies playing on poor offenses. I will say that Rosen seems to have better skill position talent surrounding him then Allen does.

I was born in Rochester and slowly became a Bills fan by osmosis on Sunday afternoons. What cemented it for me was when I was 10 my dad & a couple of the other fathers in our neighborhood took us kids on a road trip to see a game at the Rock Pile. As a kid growing up in Rochester I thought of Buffalo as a far away place where you went on vacation to see the zoo or Niagara Falls! Anyway the game we saw was against the Boston Patriots and even though OJ didn't play that day the Bills won the game and I was hooked. I attended a few more games during junior high & high school and have to admit that with the Bills being awful I also rooted for the KC Chiefs who won the Super Bowl in 1970. But OJ's amazing 2000 yard season in 1974 brought me back into the fold and returned me to football monogamy. One game I remember while still in high school was a trip to Rich Stadium to watch the Bills play the Vikings. It was a massive snow storm and I got to see a couple of NFL TD records set by OJ & Fran Tarkenton. The Bills lost but what stuck in my mind was the constant barrage of snowballs that were flying out of the stands and crashing on top of the Vikings sideline. I mean it was HUNDREDS of snow balls constantly falling among the Viking players & coaches. We were seated in the open end zone high up and so our view of this snow ball Armageddon was surrealistic. Even as a HS kid I knew it was wrong yet there was a certain beauty to it all as the snow balls rose up from the stands and then descended in a graceful arc to smash into the Vikings bench. At that point a reality hit me as a Bills fan - win or lose, Bills games could still be a blast! I guess my favorite memory was when the Bills ended the Miami winning streak at Rich Stadium on opening day of the 1980 season. By that time I was in college at UB and as I recall the weather was beautiful with the sun out and it actually being hot. As college students attending the game and taking full advantage of the tail gating the game was a blur but I do remember that the Bills kept turning the ball over as if some weird curse was in play. Then they got 2 TD's in the 4th quarter to win and the fans stormed the field and tore down the goal posts. I guess this is where the term PANDEMONIUM to describe a Bills game got started? If not, it should have! And of course the super bowl run was amazing. At the time it left a bitter taste in my mouth but over the years I've come to realize the greatness of the achievement. No one will ever again go to 4 straight Super Bowls. No one.

Good questions: * Among the many sins committed by the Bills organization with respect to bringing a raw, rookie QB on board was their failure to get him a good TE. Watching the young QB's play on any given Sunday and you can't help but be struck at how critical the TE is to their success. TE's are a young QB's security blanket - they're usually close to the LOS for a pass; they're a big target that is easily seen and the good ones have great hands. Now look what we've given Allen to work with. * Kyle Williams can play as long as he wants. The guy shows great effort & skill on every down. He's a less zany version of Fred Smerlas. * I would get Allen the BEST veteran TE and the best veteran slot receiver available in FA. I would use the draft to bring in a downfield receiver to compliment Zay.

Your YAC comment is spot on. I think back to the quick pass he made to Bengimen in the flat after Allen made an audible. How many times do you see a big WR shrug off the tackle of a DB coming in fast and gain another 10 - 15 yards Not to mention KB had 50 pounds on that DB. The throw that came back on the illegal formation was a thing of beauty as you noted. First he got away from the best pass rusher in football and 2nd the pass was perfect. Allen still has a lot to work on to get better but it's clear that he's showing steady improvement. The FACT that he has played against the best defenses of the 4 rookie QB's is a big deal and has impacted his development relative to those other guys.

Agree 100%. Now that the Bills are entering the part of their schedule where they're taking on teams with poorer defenses it would have been nice to see how Allen did. As others have pointed out Allen has faced the toughest defenses of the 4 rookie QB's to date.

Great stuff. Thanks for taking the time to do this. My take from the video clips: * Allen has a lot of things to work on as you would expect. * My first impression from watching the game that Allen threw the ball well seems confirmed. IMO the most impressive throw was the one called back by penalty. By all rights he should have been sacked on that play and even as he scrambled to his left the ONLY WR open downfield was KB and he threw nearly a perfect pass to hit him. That play would have been a big momentum changer if it had stood IMO. * Looking at the clips here I don't see anyone running open more then 10 yards the field. Clay was open on the 1st play but that was about 8 yards and McCoy was open on the helter skelter play but beyond that it seemed like our guys were covered.

Bingo. I'm also curious as to why people seem to discount the enormous difference a year can make in a QB's development?

This, and the fact that he has the weakest offensive supporting cast of the 4 rookie QB's, is the critical piece of information in understanding why Allen is the least impressive of the 4 rookies. To take it a step further in the two & half games Rosen has played in he has faced the #7, #12 & #17 defenses. Darnold has had it even easier facing the #2, #18, #23, #25, #27 & #28 ranked defenses! Sure, playing Buffalo helped the defenses out but with 6 games in the bag the sample size is big enough to say with confidence that Allen has faced the toughest defensive competition of the little three rookies (we can all admit that Mayfield was a step above the other 3).