BigDingus

I always hated when commentators or "experts" threw out "put Rodgers on any of those Patriots teams, and he'd easily have 5 or more rings!" How quick do these people forget that Brady's biggest feather in his cap other than SB wins is the fact that he's usually surrounded with little big name talent, and castoffs from other teams that seemingly become different people when playing with Brady. And the one time Kraft went all out & surrounded Brady with talent? He had an All-Time great year, destroying records left & right, and they went 18-0 until choking against the Giants (not much fault of Brady's though). The running joke has been that you could plug in anyone around Brady, and as long as he's able to remain upright he'll still lead the team to the Super Bowl. Rodgers very well might be able to do the same, but it's not as simple as many want to make it. Who knows if he'd really elevate the people around him to the same level as Brady? Who knows if he'd pull off as many last minute wins or gaming winning drives (though he has done that plenty). And who knows if he'd thrive as much as Brady in Belichick's system, or if he'd be anywhere close to as clutch. One thing I do know, Brady has him beat by a wide margin in what he's actually done on the field. And unlike what many other QB's of dynasties had, with a plethora of all-timers & Hall of Famers, Brady has largely done so as the one core piece plus a rotation of role players. Rodgers reminds me more of a better Marino, while Brady reminds me of a better Montana.

I'm not feeling up to reading through all 5 pages, but to respond to the OP, I don't miss TT at all... Better to pull of the mediocre band-aid & get through with the growing pains than to tread water & having nothing but perpetual 7 to 9 win seasons to look forward to for years on end. Tyrod wasn't good. He was a guy who wasn't ever going to win you the game, but he could do just enough that perhaps you wouldn't lose. To say "he won't lose you the game," would be wrong, as his inability to play QB cost us many games we definitely would've won with even Kyle Orton level play. Just because a 5th rounder with about 6 quarters of game experience, and a rookie who's raw & a clear project QB aren't/haven't played well, doesn't mean Tyrod is suddenly good, or even the better option for the team. He was 15 of 40 passing last week for god's sake....and even with throwing 40 freaking passes, the guy STILL couldn't break 200 yards passing! I mean, when opposing teams say the best way to beat Tyrod is make him play the position he's supposed to play, that's not the sign of a good QB! Can he run & make plays on his feet? Sure. Can he keep some plays alive by scrambling around? Sure. But those same elements also contributed to many blown opportunities, sacks and 3 & outs. And when your only hope against most competitive teams is to nurse a slim lead & hope the clock expires before they slip ahead, it's not a good recipe for success. With Tyrod as our starter, the Bills were something like 3-23 in games where the Bills went down by even 1 single point in the 4th quarter. If the other team pulled ahead at any point, might as well pack the bags because Tyrod sure wasn't going to mount a comeback. If anything, you'd get to see drive after drive of checkdowns on 3rd & long, as the defense gasped for air having to run back on the field moments after they just got off. Anyway, I rather we take our beatdowns now rather than later. Get it over with, and stop toiling in ineptitude & mediocrity.

"Josh Allen decision is Confusing" https://touchdownwire.usatoday.com/2018/09/12/josh-allen-buffalo-bills-starting-quarterback-plan/?utm_source=touchdownwire&utm_medium=recirc&utm_campaign=rail-most-popular This pretty much says it all.

Top 5 in terms of best on-field play & careers? Not pure talent, just in what they did: 1. Tom Brady 2. Joe Montana 3. Peyton Manning 4. Johnny Unitas 5. Aaron Rodgers In terms of most talented, best pure passers? Aaron Rodgers & Peyton Manning would be 1 & 2 respectively.

In only 5 games last year, and on the freaking Browns (with god knows who passing to him), he had more receiving yards than any WR on our team other than Deonte Thompson... and the last time he played most of the season, he lead the league with over 1,600 yards. At least he has done something in his career, whether he underachieved & screwed everything up or not. He can at least point to on-field success. And even if we only had him for half the season, it's better than having him for 0. There's absolutely no way if he becomes a free agent that the Bills would sign him to some long term, guaranteed contract. It'd be littered with incentives & protection clauses to cover themselves in case he gets suspended or injured again. All upside. Yes, he is.

Exactly. All upside at that point, you just have to hope no other team tries to trade for him before Monday. If he hits the open market, we can dictate the terms & protect ourselves. From there it'd be up to him if he wants to accept them, but at least it gives us a chance.

If he's released, he will qualify as an unrestricted FA & not have to go through waivers due to meeting the veteran requirements. He'd definitely be worth pursuing in that case, as we can negotiate a contract with incentives & stipulations that protect us if he falters in any way. Little risk, plenty of room for reward.

Zay? Really? How is he in the lead? I feel like Bills fans just enjoy being disappointed... The guy who caught only what, 35% of his passes last season, and a rookie QB playing behind an awful O-line are somehow going to be the most frequent connection? Sure. Why not? The problem is that in order to get that many touches, we need to have sustained drives & the offense out on the field. There's no way Shady gets 25 touches & the other RB's 10-20 themselves if we just keep going 3 & out all game.

A run. I don't know what kind, but I expect us to try (and likely fail) to establish the run game early.

I pretty much agree with most everything you said. There are a few things I still question though... They were high on Peterman last year. McDermott wanted & identified him, thought very highly of him & talked him up, and eventually felt confident enough to bench the 3 year starter to play him as a rookie. And did he even take into consideration any other parts of the equation when making that decision? We were to play on the road, across the country, in LA. We haven't beaten the Chargers away in like 30 years, and on top of that, had injuries we were dealing with. Most importantly, we were going up against a beastly pass rush, and everyone knows what opposing coaches want to do against rookies, especially in their first game.... stop the run & make them beat you in the air. Seemed not well thought out... (NOTE: I am preferacing this next part by stating I do NOT think Josh Allen is "bad" or is a bust, or is even going suck) Then we go into the draft with 4-5 QB's expected to go in the 1st round. All have done amazing things in high school & college, whether it was dominating their conference, put up monster numbers, great play in big games, signature wins, awards out the a**, etc. except for one. During the draft, you saw "Heisman Finalist," or "Freshman of the Year" or "All Pac-12 Offensive First/Second Team" or "Heisman Winner" or winner of this, that, the other, etc. with stats, wins, and footage to back it up. Then Josh Allen has "Mountain West Honorable Mention" as his only text pop up, and you just knew it'd be a Bills move to grab him. Just like we've seen hundreds of times in the past, at least one QB shoots up the board based on "potential," having a great arm, size, and hand size, and the large majority of the time they fail. Now if he put up crazy stats, dominated his conference, looked like a man playing among boys, willed his team to victory time & time again, had some signature wins against good competition, etc. then having lifelong accuracy issues or other problems could be overlooked. But if you wanted to gamble on a risky or raw project QB with "potential," you could've just as easily grabbed Patrick Mahomes or DeShaun Watson last year, only they had some prolific numbers & great play to go with it. And yes, Josh Allen didn't have the greatest talent around him, but he also didn't have the greatest talent playing AGAINST him either... And even with that being true, MANY QB's outside of Power 5 schools have had great play, stats, wins, etc. against good competition in spite of being on a team without all the big names. Our own freaking Nathan Peterman BEAT CLEMSON & outplayed Watson (putting up great numbers in the process) the very same year they won the National Championship! Can anyone say Pitt had even close to the level of talent around them that Clemson did? Allen wasn't known for his ability to read a defense, wasn't known for what he did on the field, wasn't known for big games, big numbers, awards, football IQ, etc. He was known for his arm, and what he COULD do, and what he MIGHT become given the right coaching, development & tools around him. He was a project, and we all knew this. And what did our coach & FO do? They grabbed that guy and did the exact opposite of what one should do given this specific player: 1. Put him behind one of the worst offensive lines in football 2. Knowing they wanted a QB in this draft, they drafted no serious help on the O-line in 2017 or 2018 & signed no major help to protect him 3. Gave him a bottom of the barrel WR group to throw to, with a # 1 WR in Benjamin that isn't even a definitive #1 by most metrics 4. Signed yet another OC in a handful of years, making our team have to relearn everything once again. So the guys around him aren't going to be able to help our rookie QB get fluent in the system, as they're learning it too! And this OC? Yeah...there's plenty of concerns about him too 5. Didn't see the need to sign any veteran QB to mentor & help develop our prized rookie...someone to provide some leadership (Players & Coaches have stated countless times how crucial this can be, even if the veteran isn't playing) 6. Are now telling him to do things he's never been able to do, only now at the Pro level & against the most difficult competition he's ever seen 7. Have already shown him how short the leash is, or at the very least, what our HC deems worth a benching & reevaluation of the starting job. If Allen starts off poorly, or throws an INT early on (like Darnold for example), he's already seen what McDermott thinks about that, and could start thinking "next one means I'm getting pulled" & play worse. You could say "but he knows he'll have more time & the coaches will have patience!" but that's not necessarily true. He was told ALL OFFSEASON this was an open competition, and the person playing best & most likely to give a chance to win will be the starter. And yet he was still the #2 guy by the time the season started, meaning Peterman outplayed him & EARNED his spot. Up until now, Allen believed he Peterman was ahead of him at the pro level, as McDermott reiterated that plenty of times, verbally & through his actions & decisions. Now suddenly Peterman is below him, and not through anything Allen's done. He knows he's the same player, he's just not the #2 guy anymore. He knows it's because of Peterman's play, which could just as easily be him if he plays that poorly too. But wait, our brilliant coaches don't have a veteran, or a 3rd option to go with if he doesn't play well, so what then? They don't even have a 3rd inexperienced guy like McCarron to go with because they figured they were set with these 2. So Allen's sitting here knowing he's the guy, having not earned it through his play yet, and that he has to do things he's never done before at a level more difficult than anything he's ever faced. And he already knows he'll only have about 1.5 to 2 seconds max to make these plays, and without many real weapons. Great environment for success McDermott has fostered here! His only other big pick he identified on offense was Zay Jones. We used the 37th overall pick on him, and that turned out well too... McDermott isn't an offensive guy. But that doesn't excuse him from the mess we're in now. And picking the most risky QB while simultaneously making every bad decision that has ruined other rookie QB's permanently could undo this whole "believe in the process" thing. I honestly feel sorry for Allen...I hope he can pull of the miracle & become something he's never been. I hope he can make it through this year alive, and not be mentally destroyed going into next season. I hope the FO & coaching staff realizes their litany of mistakes & saves Allen from weekly embarrassment. And most of all, I hope we don't see week to week QB changes until the season ends. JP Losman v Kelly Holcomb/Trent Edwards round 2 is not something I was ever hoping to see again in my life. But McDermott's handling of the offense & QB's in particular since he's been here do not give me much faith that he really knows "what's best for the franchise" or that he knows how to identify offensive talent.

McBeane didn't give anyone a real shot. The coaching staff doesn't actually know what they're doing. They're reacting and panicking, going day by day. McDermott says he's starting Allen because it's "what's best for the franchise" it's obvious he doesn't actually know what that is! Just a few days ago Peterman was what was best for the franchise as the starter...A week ago, McCarron being traded was what was best for the franchise. Last year benching Tyrod was what was best for the franchise. When it comes to QB's, he's just guessing.

So I've waited until the new week to start any threads. Didn't want to come on and say "told you so," as I've been posting about our line, QB group, and glaring issues all off season but was dismissed time & time again as just being negative. But there's one thing I've been optimistic about, that I knew in the back of my head was just the homer in me...Our organization's ability to develop a QB. I believed this coaching staff would finally do right, and end our ineptitiude since Jim Kelly. Evidence points to the contrary however, and it's definitely a huge concern. This staff just last week was confident & had faith in Peterman as the starter. They watched him for a full NFL season, and another off season, and believed this guy was a worthy NFL QB. Half way through game 1, they already pulled him and threw the rookie in who they clearly didn't want to start. Now he's the starter going in to game 2 because it's "what's best for the franchise" (he only made that point clear a million times). But how can we have faith he has any idea what's best for the franchise? Not even 5 days ago Peterman was what he thought was best for the franchise. Last season he thought benching Taylor, then yanking his replacement (again in 1 half) & throwing Taylor back in was what was best! He thought signing McCarron, then trading him & running with 2 inexperienced QB's as our group was what was best for the franchise. Yeah, why would we ever need McCarron when we got these 2 studs here locking down the fort? You already exhausted & killed any hope one of your 2 options was ever going to succeed, and with 15 games left you're already down to your last hope....the raw, project, "potential," QB who fights to hit 50% of his passes in high school & college, against Mountain West competition, and hasn't done anything in his football career, and now is asked to suddenly do things he's NEVER been able to do but against the best competition in the world!!? I like McDermott. I think he's a good coach. I think he's a good leader. But he's already thrown up too many red flags to say he knows how to develop a QB properly, or even knows how to identify a good QB in the first place. Having a veteran on the team for the rookie to learn from & to lead your young group would've been the most obvious, easy thing to do to at least help learn the ropes & to mentor these guys, but we didn't even do that! All this while setting these 2 guys up with what's likely to be the worst offense in the NFL... A line that fans wanted to pretend would somehow just become good with the loss of its best players (great logic), and by having one of the most mediocre WR corps around...these 2 QB's are setup to fail no matter what they do. And with this schedule? Ravens, Chargers, Vikings to start the season? Yeah, don't worry...those defenses will surely be nice warmups for these guys And yes, a QB getting smashed to oblivion can ruin their career & shot at ever becoming decent. David Carr was shell shocked, and took a record amount of sacks his rookie year. Allen isn't going to fare much better, and it's not his fault. The guy can't help but do what the coaches tell him, and he can't develop in conditions that aren't conducive to his success. He wasn't close to pro ready, and now he's being thrown to the wolves. Way to go McBeane... I didn't expect a winning season. I didn't expect a playoff repeat. But I DID expect you to handle this situation with respect to the position & process, rather than attempting to systematically make every bad decision that has historically ruined QB's careers.

I called it...It would take next to no time for people to start blaming the OC. Can't wait until we get yet ANOTHER OC in here, even though our roster is crap & can't execute for s***. Need a scapegoat to blame!

Not surprised. But I'm sure someone would love to chime in on how it's just the bias media giving us no respect, and not that our team isn't very good at the moment.

Well Peterman had the only TD pass in the blizzard game until he left due to injury, so looks like we got the right guy starting

Unlikely. The problem with stuff like this is the defenses learn pretty quick what situations you're using these guys for, and it telegraphs your intent a mile away. Remember how we used to use EJ for hard counts? Yeah, worked a couple times, then it was pointless. Everyone knew we were only trying to draw them off sides, so it became useless quick.

Just don't hate him if we lose. Having optimism is a good thing, but too many people flip out much worse afterwards if their expectations aren't met.

I wasn't optimistic going into the preseason, but surprisingly more optimistic now. I'm a realist, and I try to remain objective as much as possible. Going into the preseason, a few things were obvious on paper. 1a) We had one of the worst QB groups in the league, with a combined 4 games of pro experience between 3 people. b) We had no veteran QB to mentor our young & inexperienced group, something that fans were severely downplaying as an insignificant issue while players & experts underlined as one of the most important aspects of proper QB development. 2) Our O-line lost our 2 best players from 2017, and our 3 best overall. We had a good group with high production in 2016 with Woods, Glenn & Incognito, and already took a step back in 2017 just losing Glenn. Without all 3, our unit becomes a patchwork group of journeymen, backups, and undersized, undeveloped guys just happy to be on a team. 3) The WR corps is also one of the weakest in the league, and if Benjamin goes down, likely will be by a large margin. Our #1 WR has size & athleticism, but isn't known for his route running, separation skills, speed or elusiveness. He's a great red-zone threat, but requires a QB who has exceptional ball placement skills to get it in the right area where only Benjamin can come down with it, or at least give him a chance to fight for it. We have journeymen, ST players, long-shot rookies, & some unreliable question marks filling out the rest of the ranks. Zay Jones could help turn this around, or he could bomb worse than Corey Coleman with a repeat of last year. 4) Run Defense was awful last year, and although we tried to address that with Harrison Phillips & Star Lotulelei (as well as shoring up the MLB spot with a 1st round pick), the scheme & those players have yet to prove they're worth the investment. It's not nearly as concerning as the offense, but it's still a concern nonetheless. Sadly, I still expect the defense to get a lot of the blame for losses, even though the high point totals Yet here I am, still more optimistic than I was before. A lot of that has to do with fan perception and reality sinking in, but there's more to it than that. Now that most of the fans realize the media wasn't just being big ol' meanies with their Bills discussion, I feel it'll take some of the pressure off McDermott & Beane and to focus primarily on development. Fans clamoring to rush the rookie QB out, or call for the OC to be fired because we look pathetic on the field, can potentially lead to ownership trying to rush the process. Seeing that we're indeed letting Allen sit & learn, along with fans finally remembering "oh yeah, we knew this guy was the most raw 1st round QB in the draft & was picked on POTENTIAL, not how great he's been on the field!" and being ok with him sitting for now, proves for once that maybe we're going to try & develop a QB right for once! To top it off, I think the defense has a lot of talent in place, and unlike the O-line, will get better when they start to gel. People like to say "the O-line will improve when they start to gel!" but fail to acknowledge there's only so much they can do without proper talent. The defense however, has a ton of talented players, and when they start figuring out the ins & outs of the scheme and working with each other, they'll begin to thrive. Unfortunately, if our offense continues to go 3 & out like last year, we can still expect 2nd half break downs & high point totals against us, simply due to the exhaustion of the defense being on the field for 75% of the game. But the final thing I'm feeling optimistic about is the likelihood we'll be able to keep the same Offensive Coordinator around for more than a season. Whether it was Roman, Hackett, Dennison, etc. fans blamed the OC & play calling for all the pitiful performances, even though execution was the more obvious issue. People also fail to realize that personnel directly affects the plays called, as coordinators know the limitations of their players. "Why did we run on ____ play?!" or "Why didn't we run more play action!?" etc. are cried after each loss. But when you fail to execute, cant build momentum, find yourselves in 3rd & long situations time & time again, it impacts the play calling options available. And if your QB can't throw out routes or comeback routes without huge risk of throwing an INT due to weak arm strength, you lose those options as viable calls. Coaches and fans finally seem to agree for once, allowing this year to give us a pass & expect greater results for our future. Anyway, I think this year will playout rough, but will ultimately prove to be the turning point & foundation on which future successful seasons were built. As long as the coaches stick to their guns, actively pursue talent, and put a greater emphasis on the lines this offseason, we could be in for great next decade.

So...the final score was 30-23 Bills? I'm assuming that's how it was, didn't really see it anywhere specifically mentioned. And the Bills have only scored 20 or more points twice against the Ravens. Once in 2010 when we lost 34 to 37 in OT, and another in 2013 when we won 23 to 20. I have a feeling if we could break 20 against this Ravens defense, we'd have a pretty great shot at winning. On the flip side, if Flacco throws for 381 yards & 3 TD's, I highly doubt we could overcome that. I can't see the game playing out anything like this, but I'd be happy with the result.

Ha ha, I was right, you were all wrong, nah nee nah nee boo boo, stick your head in wood chipper (I think that's how it goes).

LOL! But... nvm, I still chuckled.

People forget he started the blizzard game, had a TD pass, & left the game with the Bills in the lead. It's not like the one & only starting attempt was the Chargers game, and we're all sitting here wondering if he's ALWAYS going to do that. If he didn't throw a pick in the blizzard conditions, he's capable of doing that without the awful weather.

http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/24578139/2018-bill-barnwell-nfl-preview-how-all-32-teams-get-super-bowl-liii An excerpt: 31. Buffalo Bills Projected Super Bowl odds: 0.1 percent "Another team with a new quarterback. The Bills traded Tyrod Taylor and already both acquired and traded AJ McCarron, leaving them with just Nathan Peterman and Josh Allen on the roster. The most plausible scenario for a return to the playoffs is that the Bills get an effective running game while Allen steps in and harnesses his elite physical traits as a deep passer on play-action. The ideal offense here is probably something like the 2008 Ravens, who had Joe Flacco throw the ball only 26.8 times per game." At least our odds aren't "less than 0.1 percent" like the Browns And even though I think a lot of fans got too carried away early on with their projections & expectations for Josh Allen, getting back to the playoffs, W/L records, etc., it seems most have come back down to earth a bit & recognize this is definitely a rebuilding year. Playoffs are far-fetched enough, forget Super Bowl...and that's ok! I'd rather have an abysmal season & kick off the next decade with a fantastic franchise QB (hopefully) than to tread water in mediocrity for a few more years , never good enough to make the playoffs but not bad enough to grab the best talent in the draft.

Hopefully they go: Week 1: Start Allen, pull him after 1st half, regardless of performance. Give confusing, mixed-message presser afterwards. Week 2: Start Peterman, if he plays well, pull him immediately. Also, pull starting O-line. All of em. Then put Allen in. Week 3: Start them both, running the Wildcat with Allen out wide and Peterman taking handoffs from Shady. Week 4: Start them both again, with the stipulation they can only run Statue of Liberty plays between each other. Bench them both, insert Logan Thomas. Week 5: Promote both to captain, trot them to center field prior to coin toss, and have them do their own coin toss before the real one to see who gets to be starter for the day. Run out & publicly rip the "C" label off loser's jersey to humiliate them further. Week 6: Ask how you're not fired yet, then quit. At least you entertained yourself.

I doubt there's much of a market for McCoy, considering his age, mileage, position, and potential legal charges. Looking back at all the trades McBeane have done, it's hard to really determine how many were good, or even necessary. There are definitely some nice ones in there, but at some point you really have to conserve talent instead of always cutting down. We got a 6th round pick (turned into 5th; Wyatt Teller) for a young, pro-bowl DT in Dareus. We got a 2nd round pick (#24 in the 2nd Rd- traded to Bucs in Josh Allen trade) & EJ Gaines (1-year & gone) for Sammy Watkins & a 6th round pick. We got a 3rd round pick (#32 in the 3rd Rd - Harrison Phillips) & Jordan Matthews (1-year & gone) for Ronald Darby. We got the #12 overall pick in Rd 1 (traded to Bucs in Allen trade) for our #21st pick in Rd 1 & Cordy Glenn. (They also swapped 5th & 6th Rd picks) We got the #7 overall pick in Rd 1 (Josh Allen) for our #12th overall, and two 2nd round picks (#53 & #56) We got a 3rd round pick (#1 in the 3rd Rd - traded to Baltimore to move up for Edmunds) for Tyrod Taylor We got the #16 overall pick in Rd 1 (Tremaine Edmunds) for our #22nd pick in Rd 1 & the first pick of Rd 3 (#65 overall) We got Kelvin Benjamin for a 3rd Rd pick (#85 overall) and a 7th Rd pick (#234 overall) We got a 4th round pick in 2019 for our 2016 2nd Rd pick Reggie Ragland. Sooo essentially we added & lost: Wyatt Teller < Marcell Dareus Josh Allen & EJ Gaines < Cordy Glenn, the 21st overall pick, two 2nd Round Picks, Sammy Watkins, and a 6th Round Pick 2019 4th Round Pick < Reggie Ragland Harrison Phillips & Jordan Matthews < Ronald Darby Tremaine Edmunds < The 22nd Overall Pick & Tyrod Taylor Kelvin Benjamin < 3rd Round Pick (#85 overall) & a 7th Round Pick (#234 overall) Anyway, I can't really tell how much I like, and how much I don't. Some seem pretty solid, while others scare the hell out of me. For the record, I didn't include the 2017 draft trades, as Whaley presided over that one before McDermott & Beane were here. Anyway, I think any trade at this point would have to be for marginal picks. He doesn't have anyone of real note left to trade. He's all-in on Allen, and we don't have any highly coveted players that would command any significant draft picks (unless he wanted to get rid of Tre White lol)