Shaw66

I really don't recall what he did in pass protection. Probably not much. Making guys miss? OJ was one of the best all-time. Maybe top five. Good as OJ was, I might give Shady the edge. Shady is the only guy I've seen who approaches what Sanders could do. Pass receiving? Outstanding. Great hands. Incredible after the catch. Plenty of Bills fans say Thurman was a better receiver, but I don't think so. The Bills ran a different offense and threw more to Thurman, but Simpson's averages were better. Simpson had more yards per catch and more touchdowns per catch. OJ was a top 5 all-time running back. Shady is underrated, but I doubt anyone who saw them both play would take Shady over OJ.

No, it isn't arguable. I love McCoy, but Simpson was head and shoulders above him. As someone said, the Bills have had good running backs. Maybe the best collection running backs of any team in the league. Bears has Peyton and Sayers and Forte. Cowboys. Browns. Simpson, Thomas, McCoy, Gilchrist, Cribbs, Lynch. Name a team where Fred Jackson would be the SEVENTH best back in franchise history.

OJ was the best. Thurm is my favotite. Freddy is second.

You make a good point about someone's coaching history. He's unproven, for sure, but having a guy who's lived with Belichick for multiple seasons and then Saban, he's been prepped about as well as he could be. I think McDermott is all about teaching, letting people grow and giving them responsibility for what they do. I think that Daboll now has a great opportunity. McD will tell him what McD wants, but he's going to ask Daboll to figure out how to deliver it. That is, McD is asking Daboll to create an offense that will work with the talent they have and will work as the talent upgrades. If Daboll has learned from Billy Boy and Saban, he should be up to the task.

DP - Thanks for the great post. I, too, think people will be surprised by the quality of the offense. I think you way overstate the significance of the change to EP. If it were that obvious that EP is superior in all respects, EVERY team in the league would run it. I mean, if the only reason the Pats offense is good and diverse is because of EP, every team would be doing it. There's a lot more to it than that. And, from the the things I read when Daboll signed on, EP really is a nomenclature system. The articles all said pretty much all the teams run all the same plays; it's just that the play call is different. Having said that, I don't understand WHY all teams don't run it. It certainly is a good explanation as to why the Pats can get in and out of the huddle and snap it quickly. I like the idea that with just a few words, a whole route tree can be called and can be adjusted by formation. It just makes a lot of sense to me. Thanks for the recap of the system. I'm not sure your conclusion about passing to the backs is correct. As I understand EP, the backs can be just as active in the passing game - it just depends on the formation. If the second man from the outside is a back in a certain formation, then he runs a particular route. If he's the third man from the outside, he runs a different route. Again, EP doesn't so much dictate that the pass plays are different; it's that the play call is simpler (for the QB). It isn't simpler for the receiver, because he has know the entire route tree and figure out which route is his, based on the formation - essentially, in EP the QB can know where he's going find A receiver without necessarily knowing which receiver it's going to be. SOME receiver is in the flat, SOME receiver is running the post, SOME receiver will be sitting in the short middle. It's easy to see how it makes life simpler for the QB. My view is that what's going to make the offense better is (1) better NFL-style quarterbacking from McCarron (or Allen if he somehow wins the job). By that I mean, better decision making pre- and post-snap. The EP scheme may help McCarron (just as it probably would have helped Taylor). (2) Receivers better suited to the style of play. We don't know exactly who the receivers will be, except that we should expect Benjamin and Jones to be the primary receivers. The emphasis is going to be on precise route running and recognition of the defenses. I'm a big believer that people tend to way overvalue receivers. When you think about it, how many receivers can you name who consistently beat their defender and get wide open? Not very many; most of the time when a receiver is open, it's because he ran his route well and the pattern or scheme created the opportunity. The receiver just takes advantage of the opportunity. That's why the Pats can get a lot of mileage out of a Hogan, for example. (3) Solid but not dominant offensive line play. I think the style of play that McD wants for the Bills is, as you say, plug-and-play. It's a style where each player has a precise job to do on each play, and the job can be accomplished by any NFL-calibre player (in terms of athleticism and experience). So, for example, I get the sense that McD is perfectly comfortable that Dawkins can be the left tackle, that Mills can be the right tackle, that Groy can be one of the interior guys and Ducasse can be another. I know those aren't popular names across the line, but the fans' opinion isn't what matters. I think McD is confident that he can get effective play from those guys and that all he needs is one more. Maybe a rookie. Maybe a free agent they haven't signed yet. It isn't going to be a juggernaut offense, but I think it's going to surprise people. One final thought: Ivory is a pro's pro. He's going to be a significant contributor on this team.

My mental image of McCarron is one of a well-coached, dedicated all around athlete who achieves very well if he's in the right college environment. The right environment is where there's good talent on the team and good coaching, where the QB is expected to execute the plays but not be a playmaker. Frankly, that's what I think Dalton looks like. In that sense, he's good for McDermott, for whom ideal player is one who does his job as well as he can every play. I think Dalton will be solid starter for the Bills, until Allen takes over. When will Allen take over? When he can execute the offense nearly as well as McCarron can. Why will he take over? Because the quality of his arm and his physical talents generally will allow Allen to be a playmaker as well as a field general. So when Allen's field generalship approaches McCarron's, in 2018 or 2019, Allen's athletic superiority will be enough to get him on the field.

Right. Article demonstrates broad ignorance of what the Bills are doing and of McD's philosophy. McD intends to make the playoffs in 2018, and his plan is to do it with an improved offense and a much better defense. Theres a difference betwewn building and rebuilding. Rebuilding involves tearing down. Bills are essentially done with that. They're still building.

I'm getting close.

I will be there with a priest. I hope that helps.

My comment was comparing Edmunds to Keuchly. Read the OP and tell us if you disagree.

6. He's a good teammate. 7. He loves to compete. McDermott loves this guy.

Yes, Berg and Hapless. You're right on. He's going to keep on doing the same thing - talking to a lot of insiders, getting to cover the big games. But he won't be responsible for a lot of stuff that adds stress to his current job. The stuff about giving the youngsters a chance is pure bull ****. If he liked his job at SI, or if SI had reduced his responsibilities and given him more money, he would have stayed, youngsters be damned. My opinion of King changed the day he told this story. He went to spring training and was sitting down the right field line. Some young phenom he'd come to see, like Mike Trout, someone who has really highly touted but hadn't yet made a big splash in the majors, was playing. The guy homered to right, and King wanted to save the ball as a souvenir. He was pretty close, so he left his seat and headed to the open space behind the fence. The ball was there on ground, and there was another ball out there, too. Some nine year-old kid ran out to get the ball, and he asked King which ball was the home-run ball. King, in his column explained that he identified the wrong ball, so that the kid wouldn't take King's souvenir. I'm not buying that King is leaving SI to give the youngsters a chance.

The guy writes a great column. He's plugged in all around the NFL and gets great information. He has great insights into the game. He also has an enormous ego. He can be pompous and condescending. He's Boston centric to a fault. Still, he's great at what he does. I'm glad he isn't retiring.

This is the point. And it's a point that I think many people miss. Coaching is really important. In football, it is more important than anything else, including total team talent, except for the QB. Did you see Al Horford after the game on Saturday? He was asked about the in-bounds play that got Horford a layup late in the game. The first words out of his mouth were "Brad Stevens is a genius." In football, the differences between teams in total team talent (other than QB) are minimal. Except for the occasional horrible team or two, my team's total talent is always pretty close to your team's talent. The draft, free agency and the salary cap make that happen. Are there some differences? Sure. And do those differences make a difference in games? Yes. But coaching makes a bigger difference. Belichick doesn't have better talent than everyone else, year after year. Andy Reid doesn't. It's too early to tell about McDermott, but his first season in Buffalo certainly was encouraging. This season is a big test for him. Many of his players are returning and know the system. He's gotten rid of the guys he thinks didn't fit. He's added players he thinks do fit. As he's said, they aren't done. He needs 2019 to add more rookies and free agents, but then he'll have a roster full of the kind of guys he wants. This season, he's still working with less than he wants. If he's a great coach, the Bills will win 2018 like they did in 2017, by being really well prepared and doing the little things right. I think they've won three. Merger was about 35-40 years ago. I first learned the lesson about the importance of coaching 30 years ago, when Jim Calhoun came to UConn. Prior to Calhoun's arrival, UConn was pretty bad, pretty consistently. I went to a game in Calhoun's first season. The opponent pressed, and UConn broke it easily. That's when I knew things were going to be different. Those players, more or less the same players that had been there the year before, were prepared for whatever came. Calhoun got them ready. It wasn't about talent. It was about coaching.

Well, the first 20 yards are the most important, so that's an edge to Keuchly. But it's not a significant edge. As I said, I think it's a push. If the discussion is whether one is a little better athlete than other, i think the discussion is over. You're talking about premier athletes. Bills got one.

That's the concept I was thinking of but couldn't put my finger on. Shrink the windows. That's what he's going to do. He's going to make the 3rd and 7 completion for a first down tougher. It's not that he's going to get 14 interceptions and 20 breakups. He's just going to make it harder to throw into the middle medium zone. He's going to force the Qbinto lower probability throws, which should result in fewer third down conversions for opponents.

Oh, yeah. I was doing a simple comparison with Brown, and Keuchly was the other natural comparison. I don't think anyone has any business declaring that Edmunds is the next Keuchly. Edmunds COULD be that guy, but that's a truly high standard to get measured against. Keuchly is truly special. He's not the classic old-time MLB, who were more down hill run stoppers with speed. Keuchly is only a bit less of a run stopper, but he's also damn near a defensive back. With Keuchly on the field, that defense is sort of simultaneously in a 4-3 and 4-2-5. That's special, and it takes football smarts and hard work to be that guy. Edmunds has the physical tools to do what Keuchly does, but it'll be some time before we find out if he can play at the level. We might see flashes, maybe many flashes, but he'll need time to become a Keuchly.

I hadn't really focused on who populate the defense in 2018, and this thread is a really good summary. Good to great discussion. I read and I get excited. It isn't going to fall exactly like any of you say, because there will injuries and other surprises. A guy who isn't even on the team yet could be a significant addition. And there's a broader, organizational point: the Bills run a true team defense - it's about everyone doing his job., and a lot of these guys now have a year under their belts in this system. We could see the defensive backfield growing during the season as they learned how to flow with one another within the system. This year, those guys will be teaching the newcomers (there'll be two to three or four across the front seven, and a couple guys working into the backfield. This defense will be further along in September than it was last season, and the new guys learning will be upgrades physically over the guys they've replace. Pretty exciting.

That's my reaction. Milano is one of those guys (I'm guessing) who will show flashes but who will have weaknesses that get exploited, weaknesses they can't overcome. It's what I've been saying about Brown and Edmunds. Brown made the most of his talents, but he's hit a ceiling because of his lack of speed. Milano has weaknesses that will limit what he can do. The interesting thing about McDermott is that his approach WILL make stars of an occasional guy, despite the guy's limitations. Those guys play better than their talent projects, but they only can do in the environment the coach built. Like all the players who looked like stars playing for Belichick, and were only okay or worse elsewhere. If McDermott makes Milano into a stud outside linebacker tor the next ten years, it will mean the Bills have one of the great head coaches in the league.

Tweaked me good with the slide rule post. I liked it. (In my defense, I began the post by saying I wanted to quantify it because I was curious. It's not like I didn't already know he was faster than Brown.) I'd disagree with your assessment of Brown, but I haven't watched the All 22. Brown seemed to me to be just a step or two out of position, not my-little-brother out of position. Someone else started talking abut 35-yard passes. Most passes are shorther than that, and the 35 yard passes are typically to the sideline, and Edmunds won't be defending those. I think where we'll see the difference is throws over the middle - QBs will learn that nothing's open over the middle, because Edmunds is standing right in the middle of the target area.

This is something I've only thought about a little. Others have commented on it. There are a lot of solid players on the defense. Hughes and Lawson and Star and Kyle and Phillips. Edmunds and Zo. DBs and safeties. The defense was pretty good last season, when everyone was just learning. Now they're going to weave in the new comers, and the talent upgrade should make the defense really tough tough this season. Then Zo and Kyle will retire, but they'll be replaced. The defense in Buffalo will a force.

Only a bit better all around, but Keuchly's 20 time is faster, which means that Keuchly's better in the first ten steps. That's why I think it's a push. The point is that Edmunds has all the physical tools to be as effective as Keuchly. Keuchly was built for McD's defense, and Edmund's is too. That's why when you read the articles today where Beane talks in depth about the draft, Beane says they were overjoyed after the first night. They didn't think they had a chance to get BOTH a QB they wanted and Edmunds. It fell perfectly for the Bills.

McD won't tolerate mental laziness. Nor worries there.

Edmunds is slightly faster in the 40. a little slower in the 20, so I'd guess their ability to drop is about the same. Edmunds is two inches taller. So I'd say that physically it's a push.

I wanted to see specifically how much difference Edmunds' size and speed should make over Preston Brown, so I calculated it. If the QB delivers the ball in two seconds and throws a 35 yard pass, the ball arrives at its destination about 3 seconds after the snap. Based on their combine times for the 20 and 40, Edmunds will get 1.5 to 2 yards deep (on a deep drop) or wider (if he's going to the flat) than Brown. Plus, Edmunds is 4 inches taller and has slightly longer arms. My continuing memories of Brown in pass coverage was that his drops regularly weren't deep enough or wide enough. He read the plays correctly, but the ball always seemed to pass six to twelve inches over his outstretched arm. Assuming Edmunds can learn to make the reads as well as Brown did, those balls are going to be incomplete or intercepted. Bigger, better, faster athlete.