Shaw66

Whoa! Talk about some weapons.

I think they feel they can live with what they have, but they almost certainly will bring in competition. Someone is going to get pushed. I can't imagine anything else. Maybe a 2nd or 3rd round pick, maybe a free agent.

Do it again and you will get the same result. That's what you get at that level. Ford may or may not grow into a good pro, but you're probably not getting a rookie starter who is much better. Possible, but it's a bad bet. You're right. The line was mediocre. They're counting on Ford improving and they are counting on the line growing together as a unit.

Clearly what McBeane think. No free agent help yet, and the #1 pick gone. They're betting on continuity and improvement.

They did that last year.

I thought you explained that nicely early on. And I think if you limit it to a wideout trio, there's a clear advantage over KC. However, you gotta admit that if you're talking about just three guys who lead your passing attack, KC's group with Kelce is right up there.

That's a fair argument. But I'd say that Brown has his best seasons playing as the #2, odd as it sounds. When he's the number 1, his performance against the top corners and defenses generally seemed to slip. And Diggs played on a team where he had to share the #1 role and that didn't want to be a passing team. Having said that, I have to say I haven't seen Godwin much, but Evans is really special - not flashy, but really, really good. Any trio with him is a good trio.

Yeah. Beane said a couple of months ago that 2021 might be the year the Bills start earning comp picks. Seems like no way this year.

I agree about this. Frankly, I think you also have to take into consideration the coaches. Mahomes has a coach who's a master offensive planner and the Bills have Daboll. And I'm not saying that put down Daboll. All I'm saying is that from a coaching standpoint the Chiefs offense is also on all cylinders. Maybe Watkins-Beasley is a push. Watkins is more talented, Beasley more consistently makes plays for you.

I agree. I mean, anything could happen, but I've said a few places now that the Bills have a top 10 number 1 receiver, a top 10 number 2 receiver and a top 10 slot receiver. Who else can say that? And that's why it comes back to Allen. The right quarterback should thrive with a trio like that. And it comes back to Daboll. And back to the o line. This team has this elite trio, and it has Singletary, who still has some upside, and everyone else has to do his job to take advantage of it.

I think this is an excellent way to look at. Take any trio and put them on the Chiefs with Mahomes. I think it's tough to find a trio of wideouts Mahomes would want over these three. They could be that good. We could argue all day about it, because there are some other good trios, but for me the fact that each of the Bills has succeeded in the league at a consistently high level, and each is still playing at a high level. That's tough to beat. These three are guys who each have recently been top in their category (primary, secondary and slot), real threats, and they still play at that level. Who else has that at all three positions?

Look at his stats and look at his visibility on the field. He was a different player the second half of the season. Murphy is definitely NOT Kelsay 2.0. Same work ethic, to be sure, but Kelsay never was an explosive playmaker. Murphy has done that.

I think you just believe what you choose to believe, instead of actually evaluating what happened. In his final 8 games (he missed one, so it was the Bills' last 9 games), Murphy had 5 sacks, 26 total tackles, 6 tackles for loss. In his last 8 games, Shaq had 4.5 sacks, 21 total tackles and 9 tackles for loss. In his last 8 games, Phillips had 4.5 sacks, 18 tackles and 6 tackles for loss. Murphy clearly was not "well below" those two, and keeping Murphy on the team for 2020 costs LESS than it would have cost to keep either Shaq or Phillips. But please don't let the facts get in the way of your conclusions. It's obvious that Murphy sucks and only is on the team because McD likes him.

Two things about this. First, once the guy is on your team, what you're paying him is not very relevant. The question is solely about whether he's helping your team and doing what you want him to do. Every team every year has guys who are getting more than what they'd be worth if they immediately became free agents, and other guys who are getting paid less than they should. It's just in the nature of how compensation works in the league. The only question is whether he's doing his job. I'm guessing that the OP and people who are backing Murphy have it right. If he weren't doing his job, the Bills probably would have cut him to realize the savings. The fact that they didn't cut him suggests McD likes what they're getting from him. My recollection is that Murphy in an interview sometime late last season, when his play had picked up and he was making a difference, Murphy said that he finally was recovered from his surgery. Essentially he said that he still wasn't right when the 2019 season began. That would help explain why his play improved, and it also would be part of the reason that the Bills are keeping him. Plus, as we know, McDermott loves the guy's intensity. McD wants guys like that on the team, to model their behavior for other players. Murphy's a mad dog committed to doing his job, and McD wants 60 of those.

Oh, absolutely. I'm not saying they are absolutely right. It may not work out, it's true. What I'm saying is they wouldn't have made the move unless they believed it would make the Bills competitive at the highest level. As I said, the move challenges the team to get the job done.

I wouldn't be too quick to dismiss him. The guy has heart and has an edge about him. Fearless and committed. Good enough athlete. A Chris Hogan type. He's a guy McDermott can fall in love with. He's like a wrestler.

Yes. I wrote something about this in another thread. The bottom line is that the entire field is now open to the offense, which forces the defense to defend the entire field. The Bills now have all the skill position tools to attack whatever part of the field they want. One player, but it's a major change. I wrote somewhere else that his deal signals that McBeane think the team is ready now. If they thought they needed help on the oline, they would either have gone after oline talent in these first few days or they would have strategized about what it would take to get talent in the draft. Instead, what did they do? They ignored the oline in free agency AND traded away the draft pick. That says, loud and clear, that the oline as is will be as good as they need, and it still leaves the door open for a player to emerge out of camp.

I don't know the Vikes that well, but it always seemed to me that they essentially had two primary receivers. That's what was tough about them together, and that's why Cousins has been a disappointment. I think Green has struggled to be a #1 who made a difference for his team, and Watkins clearly failed at being a #1, period. I think Diggs has been more of a difference maker for his team, and he comfortable in the role of "the" guy. Brown never has had quite enough to take over a game when the team needed it, but he's a devastating weapon as #2 receiver. And it takes pressure off of Beasley. He's going to go back to what he's best at: being a pesky little guy who threatens to sting you every play. Ask your self this: rank the following players in order of the guy you'd like as your #2 receiver. That is, assuming you're happy with your number 1 guy, and you could choose any of these three, which would it be? Robert Woods, Cole Beasley, John Brown. For me, it's Brown in a heartbeat, and that's from someone who always admired Woods. Beasley is a distant third. I think the Bills are ending up with starting receivers who now each is playing the role on the team that he's best at. I really like the comment about having to finally address a position that some fans thought was stepchild. I think it's really the third year of the rebuild, but we skip that argument. Whatever you call it, they just couldn't wait any longer. And it's a major statement from Bills' management saying "we're here now. Not 2021, we're here now." It's a statement to Josh, a challenge. The lack of attention to the Oline is a statement and a challenge to the oline. It says to the oline "we're all in on you, or else we would have gone after help. We traded out of #1 because we don't need a #1 to replace any of you." It's a statement to the fans, and to the owners. It's a statement that says to everyone "we can win now. We aren't done getting better, but we can win now." The deal says McBeane think they already are good enough to compete for it all, and they aren't done. Not having made the deal and getting the best receiver at #22 would have said "we're still building," because that guy is quite likely not going make a difference in 2020. Might play, but not make a difference. But the Diggs deal says they don't think they have to wait to win a lot. And I think the moves on the defense says exactly the same thing. It says we need to get some guys in here to plug some holes, and we'll be fine. Free agency begins and BINGO! some serious hole-plugging and more additions join the team. All of it screams that they're ready.

The experience difference is real, but I don't think it's that big of a deal. I mean, Allen won't be a veteran signal caller, but he's going to get a lot of open shots. Arians is a big deal. That's a good point. I went to all of those games, and it was tough. But I can't recall three games in one season like those. It was unusual. I know it's crazy to talk about an offense being explosive when it was as weak as it was last season. But with one move the Bills accomplished what they wanted - to force the defense to defend the entire field. With Diggs and Brown on the field, the defense has to defend the bubble screen, the slants, the outs and the ups, every play. They have to defend Beasley and the tight end underneath from sideline to sideline. They have to defend the screens, swings and wheel routes to Singletary. They have to defend EVERYTHING. It's what the Rams did to you two years ago, and it's what the Chiefs did to you last you. I keep coming back to the fact that one move improved three positions. The Bills suddenly have a top ten #1, a top ten #2, and a top ten #3. Last season they weren't better than top 20 at any of those positions. I think life just a lot easier for a young quarterback.

Absolutely. The oline is a smaller question. It's pretty much all on Daboll and Allen.

I agree. I just found myself thinking about how explosive Diggs and Brown could be together and began wondering what might be a fair comparison. Lots of reasons why it might not happen, but the Cards' 2015 offense is a picture of what the Bills could do.

2015 wasn't that long ago. John Brown, in his second NFL season, was the Cards' #2 receiver, paired with Larry Fitzgerald. Michael Floyd was their #3 guy, at least in the stats. Carson Palmer throwing. Cards went 13-3. Cards were second highest in yards passing per game, 5th in passer rating. Chris Johnson and David Johnson shared the ball carrying. #1 in yards per game, #2 in points per game. Cards were 5th in yards per game defense and 7th in points per game defense. Fast forward five years. Brown seems to be in his prime, probably a better receiver today than he was in 2015. Stefon Diggs isn't Larry Fitzgerald, but he's damn good. He's a better deep threat than Fitzgerald, and he's no slouch running underneath routes. Beasley is a perfect complement to the two deep guys. Allen is a QB with the arm and the body that Palmer had, and he's more mobile. Coincidentally, Palmer's brother is his coach. Singletary needs a running mate. I'm predicting nothing, but the comparison gives an idea of what this offense could become.

I get it. We've been living this bad dream for so long, it just doesn't seem real that this is happening. Plus, and this is really where your realism/pessimism is grounded, it's really tough to win in the NFL. The playoffs amaze me with how high those coaches and players raise their level of play. So it isn't easy to win. And I don't disagree about the Patriots, either. Belichick is the GOAT. Brady is the GOAT only because he was the perfect fit for Belichick. Belichick has 30-35 players returning who know the system and who play at a really high level. All he has to do is get a QB to play at a high level. A guy like Dalton might very well keep the Pats on top, and except for one play, I'm not Dalton booster.

I agree that the FO seems to be consistently good at identifying and adding pieces to the team, but they don't get all the credit. It takes two to tango - players have to want to play in Buffalo, and that's about the quality of the coaching, the prospects of the team for the future, the quality of the fans, a lot of things. Last year the reports were that Beasley came down to Buffalo and New England. Two years ago Brown was interested in Buffalo but was unsure about the situation and went to Baltimore instead on a one-year deal. Last year at this time he looked again, liked what he saw, and came to Buffalo. A boatload of offensive linemen chose Buffalo, and the Bills now have three starting offensive linemen who weren't here before. It looks like the Bills just signed a seriously good collection of defensive players (an even better collection than the group of offensive linemen last year), not every one of whom will work but who collectively should improve an already good defense and adequately cover the losses of Shaq, Philips and Zo. Those guys each had good options and they all chose Buffalo. That's more than FO salesmanship. That's evidence of a total team environment - coaches, fans, owners, facilities that good players are finding desirable.

Well, of course, but this is typical rear-view mirror analysis. Anyone can make predictions that are nothing more than last year's standings reiterated. The problem with that kind of prognostication is that it's usually better than 50% wrong. Most teams other than the Patriots rise to the top for a year, two years tops, and then fall again, despite the fact that many fans think they see another dynasty. I certainly wouldn't bet on Baltimore staying on top - the league is in the process of figuring Jackson out, and he hasn't yet shown that he can be a master NFL quarterback. The point is that the teams at the top of the NFL change from year to year. San Francisco was 4-12 in 2018 and one of the best teams in the league last season. There are plenty of reasons why the Bills might not get near the top in 2020, but of the teams that weren't there in 2019, they have to be one of the preseason favorites.