Shaw66

That's interesting. You're right.

I never said Lamar wasn't good or wouldn't win more games, even playoff games. I said his era was over. An era is a period time. For the past six months Lamar has been publicized as though we are in the Lamar Jackson era. That era is over. He is not going to be the dominant QB of this season, and probably no other season. Good player, will win some games. He is NOT the guy to build a winning franchise on.

Character. They missed his desire, his competitiveness, his brains.

A name from the past. I didn't grow up with the Bills - they didn't exist until I was 13. So when the Bills were created , it was all a new experience. Yoho was one of the guys who taught us about foot RIPball.

Link or it's not true.

Didn't know what FIFY meant, but I figured it out.. We disagree fundamentally on this one. Let's talk in five years.

Hey, old man. I'll give you a simple test to see if you really think I'm premature. Would you trade Josh Allen even up for Lamar Jackson? I know, right now, that Josh Allen will have a better career than Lamar Jackson. There is no way I'd make that trade. Why? Because I'm pretty sure that 15 years from now we will not be talking about Lamar Jackson as one of the all time greats, and there's a good chance we will be having that conversation about Allen. Of course, if you and I are having that conversation, it'll be in some old folks home. I think the Vick comparison is about right. Vick had a better arm, clearly, HE was a great runner, but he didn't have Lamar's elusiveness. But I agree, VIck's career is likely Jackson's upside.

Josh hasn't improved that much. He's improving. He's been improving for two years now, and he isn't done. Some other things have happened to make it look like he's made a huge leap: 1. Diggs. The talent that Allen has in the receiving corps is awesome. Everyone in the league knows it. 2. The officiating. Holding calls being down has really helped the passing games. The big plays aren't getting called back. 3. Offensive innovation. The Rams, the Chiefs, and, yes, the Bills are attacking all over the field in creative ways. Allen has improved enough to be able to take advantage of all of those developments. That's why his numbers went to the stratosphere. Wait until Allen really understand NFL defenses. He'll really be something.

I keep thinking back to what McDermott and Beane said the night they drafted Allen. Remember? They were really excited, because Edmunds had just fallen to them, and Beane said he never imagined that he'd last that long. But it was what they said about Allen that was amazing. They talked about him like he was the #1 guy on their board. They said the physical tools were obvious, but it was the interviews with him that made them realize he was the total package. He had the nice Wonderlic, but the interview with him, maybe over a mean, when he got comfortable, that's when they figured out that Allen had the fire they wanted. Not just the on-field fire, but the desire to get better all the time. You could tell that McBeane were sure they had a winner. It was exciting just to listen to them. Now, here we are in the beginning of Allen's third season, and we're seeing all those things that McBeane talked about As I keep saying, we shouldn't get ahead of ourselves. He hasn't accomplished anything yet, and he has a lot to learn. But now it's becoming clear to more and more people what could be coming. One more thing about the draft. Think back to the night. Mayfield was just about everyone's #1 quarterback - athletic, emotional leader, competitor. And there, sitting there for the Browns and the Giants and the Jets was a guy who had all that Mayfield had, plus raw physical talents that blow Mayfield off the field. That was an amazing night for Buffalo.

Yeah Mahomes has that. But Allen has this overhand flick that Mahomes can't match. He can get the ball downfield effortlessly, and that's important i. The pocket under pressure. I think those two stand out above everyone else, today. Rodgers a few years ago, but not so much now. .

Zero - I think I pretty much agree with you. You maybe misunderstood what I said, but I didn't say it very well. Here's what I meant: Mahomes is a great thrower, I agree. Way above league average. By better arm I meant that Allen can deliver the ball with more velocity and with less physical exertion than Mahomes can. He just has a stronger arm. Doesn't mean Mahomes has a bad arm. He doesn't. But there are throws that Allen can make physically with less arm motion than Mahomes can. I think that's true, and that's an advantage for Allen. Then I said, what I think is also true and I'm sure you agree with, that Mahomes is clearly the better field general. He runs what's probably a more complicated offense flawlessly. He doesn't get flustered. He's way ahead of Allen there; I think Allen's already pretty good at it, but Mahomes was better as a rookie than Allen is now. Then, what I meant by my conclusion was that it's possible for Allen, I expect Allen, to continue to improve as a field general - that he'll be able to get as good at it as Mahomes is, but Mahomes will never be able to flip the ball downfield with pace and accuracy the way Allen is throwing. In any event, I wasn't trying to say Allen is as good as Mahomes. For one season, I'd take Mahomes in a heartbeat. But I will say that I have a lot of confidence that within the next few years Allen will be a premier QB mentioned along with two or three others. I expect Mahomes will continue to be one of those. Thanks for responding.

Fair enough. Wrong title. But I think I'm correct his trajectory. He may even win a Super Bowl, but he is not going to be an elite QB.

I like the Football Outsiders rating system, in the second half of the season. They need data for their system to work, and in the beginning of the season, they don't have data. Their written analysis, however, is pretty bad. They are so data driven that they look at nothing but the rear view mirror. Their analysis of where teams are today is not based on actual observation of the team and how it's playing.

Well, I agree with you, but I also understand the hype. He's a spectacular runner, and he throws well, at least the passes he throws. And he's a great competitor. I just don't see how that style wins, long-term. It's too one dimensional.

All in due time, my son. He's learning week by week, season by season. Once he finds Beas, Brown, and Diggs running free a few times, the blitzing will stop, because they're going to turn it upfield and gash the defense. Allen probably won't do it consistently this season - he's still learning. But in a year or two, he's going to be deadly managing a game.

That's kind of you. I'll see I can get it.

Who are the MTC guys?

You're missing the point. Sure, Jackson may light up a bunch of teams again this year. The problem isn't that he isn't talented. The problem is that the offense is one-dimensional, and first the good defenses and eventually all the defenses will learn to stop it, just like KC did last night. What I'm saying is that Jackson is not a long-term premier QB, at least not until he learns to play like Brees and Wilson, small guys who play from the pocket. It was obvious last night that Jackson can't play from the pocket anything like a top QB.

First, I gotta say it's pretty interesting that I post a random though about Jackson in the morning, go away, and when I come back there are 12 pages of comments. Love it. Gunner, I agree that if Jackson had a Diggs or other serious #1, he'd be better off, and I agree (as I've said) that he has to learn to be a pocket passer. He didn't look like one last night. But I think the problem is bigger than that. I think if you decide that your offense is going to feature Jackson's running ability, if you're going to try to win by having him rush for 1000 yards a season, then you necessarily have to sacrifice the deep passing game. If you're going to have a run-oriented offense, especially with your QB as a feature back, you need wideouts dedicated to blocking. They aren't useful blocking 30 yards downfield; you have to keep them near the line of scrimmage. I think when you do that to your offense, you're telling the defense they need to play two deep safeties, because no one's going to be running around back there. The defense packs the shallow and mid range zones with a single high free safety, and the offense fins itself trying to beat 10 defenders all within 20 yards of the line of scrimmage. The easy passing option for a running QB is when he rolls out. But when he rolls out, he signals the defense that it only has to defend half the field. The a big part of the reason Bills fans have been saying Josh needed options was that the Bills needed to spread the defense and make the decision making easier. As I said, KC's offense is the exact opposite of Baltimore's, and the difference was obvious. Mahomes had a lot of easy throws to make, 15-20 yards downfiield to guys wide open. We s saw very little of that from Jackson, and we saw very little of it when the Ravens played the Bills last year. The attack has to come from the pocket.

Very interesting question about Shady. Never occurred to me, but it wouldn't surprise me at all if Josh got some advice from Shady.

Hah! I didn't say Jackson is a bad athlete or wont ever play another down. I said you cant have a consistently offense unless you have a qb who can run a full scale NFL passing offense from the pocket. Jackson cant do it and is way behind Allen learning it. And even if Jackson can learn it, as long as they try to feature the running qb, they cant send receivers deep. It was completely obvious watching those two offenses.

The spin move was a reminder of what an extraordinary athlete Allen is. Running backs practice that move and make it part of their repertoire. When does Allen practice that? Sometime, I guess, but that isn't his job. I don't recall that we've seen it before. What was particularly good about it was that it was just what was needed in that instant to avoid the tackle and pick up a couple extra yards for the first town. Allen wasn't going to run away from the guy, but he had to avoid a direct hit to get the first down. In the moment Allen could see it and execute it. Quite remarkable.

I've said since the beginning of the year that I'm not buying the Lamar Jackson hype, and I'm not buying the Kyler Murray hype, either. I know they are really special athletes, and they're a couple of the best running backs in the league, but they limit their offenses. The problem with Jackson is related to something McDermott (and plenty of other coaches) say all the time: You have to force the opponent to defend the entire field - sideline to sideline and line of scrimmage to the goal line. The reason is simple: If you can threaten to strike anyplace on the field, the defense has to spread out to defend all those places. When the defense spreads out, they create holes for the offense to attack. You could see the problem almost immediately last night. One on side of the ball was a team, the Chiefs, that is perhaps the best in the league at attacking the whole field. They will hurt you anyplace you leave unprotected. The Ravens started out playing the game no more than 30 yards downfield, and as the game progress, they didn't even threaten that deep. The defense tightened and tightened. Sure, Jackson kept getting himself some nice runs here and there, but they essentially give up the ability to get 100-200 passing downfield to get an extra 50 or 100 out of Jackson. That's a bad trade. The other thing that was apparent is that to be a premier QB, you MUST be able to stand in the pocket and direct the attack. You can't run an effective, all-over-the-field passing attack from outside the hash marks. Why? Because you can't threaten deep passes down the right side if your QB is standing outside the left hashmark. (Well, you can if your QB is Josh Allen, but that's something else.) Your QB has to be able to stand in, see the entire field, make decisions, and then make throws. Jackson couldn't do that last night. If he's going to make it, he has a lot of work to do as a pocket passer. But even that may not be enough, because if you're going to feature your QB running the ball, you need your receiver to stay shallow to block for him. So in your regular offense, your receivers aren't running deep routes, so the deep threat isn't there. It was all pretty obvious watching last night. Mahomes stands in the pocket, makes decisions and makes throws. Jackson doesn't. Jackson will not be a premier QB if he doesn't learn to play that traditional QB game. He's way, way behind Josh Allen in developing those skills. Allen plays much more like Mahomes than like Jackson. McBeane have always said he was going to be a pocket passer. They've been working on making him one since he arrived in Buffalo. Baltimore went down the other road, building an offense that plays to Jackson's strengths, but that is an offense that by definition is limited. I think they're wasting their time. Jackson will hurt some teams sometimes, he'll force your defense to play a different style than their used to, but at the end of the season, Baltimore's offense will limit their ability to win big games. Finally, to bring it back to Allen and the Bills, Mahomes wasn't doing anything last night that Allen doesn't do. Allen has the better arm, clearly, Mahomes is more poised and more able to attack weaknesses consistently - that's clear too. What's so encouraging is that Allen can learn to be a great field general, but good as Mahomes arm is, he can't learn to throw like Josh. Bills are heading down the right road.

Mike Pereira said that if your illegal contact continues until the ball is in the air, it becomes pass interference. Thats what happened. When Davis made his cut, the ball was in the air. The contact continued until the cut. Davis made the play. He forced the db into a position where he had to disengage. But if he did that, the catch would have been no contest. Davis is a winner.

Yeah, right. Could write a book about that game. I thought the story of the game was how the team stood up to the challenge. It was Allen and the offense that stood up. Everyone did their job, the offense made the difference.