Rochesterfan

JM is absolutely infatuated with EJ - go through and no matter the topic - someplace in his hate filled rants will be mentions of EJ. This is two boards of having to listen to him bring up EJ non stop. It is time to let EJ go - he is no longer here. Now breathe and let things play out.

Correct - accuracy can be looked at a couple of ways and if one set of people want to argue that he has a high completion percentage and is therefore accurate - they are not wrong, but I think they are missing a big part of the picture. If someone else want to argue that he is inaccurate because of his struggles to hit a variety of throws - they are also correct, but again only seeing some of the picture. I do not disagree with you at all - I just can also see there are arguments to be made that it is hard to fault his accuracy and the throws he chose to make the majority of the time - whether via his decision or coaches play design. We will learn more as we see how this off season progresses and whether TT can keep the job or if and when he gets replaced.

I don't see a lot of comparative data - a lot of DNT and not many successful QBs to choose from. I would love to see where many guys of varying success like Pennington, Brady, Manning, Montana, ECT. would fall. I think by the very nature guys with better velocity have a better shot, but I believe the cerebral aspects are significantly more important than velocity. Several guys on the list with Rocket arms failed (a much higher percentage than were successful - so I am not sure it means much of anything at all.

I will give it a solid B - If there was a B+ - I would take that. Love the guys they picked - (the 2 LBs are meh, but I love the first 3 picks). Love the trade back and extra pick next year. I think we are in a good position - just wish we had a schedule like 2 years ago.

It depends upon what you guys are arguing for accuracy. TT completes a high percentage of throws and therefore has good accuracy, but the throws are typically to a spot as a receiver is either going to the sideline or coming back toward the QB. TT suffers with accuracy if he is trying to hit a WR in motion especially across the middle. He does not anticipate nor throw open WRs with any consistency. I think you are both right to some degree.

I just do not see it - they will let Taylor play out the contract - I just do not see anyway TT gets a longer better contract. The better shot is a top draft pick next year will be the QB.

As weak arm was the big knock on Brady coming out also he could not throw a spiral - so I think the chance is the same as the chances of Brady becoming the GOAT - slim, but still a chance. A guy that can actually read a defense and make anticipation throws has a much better chance to succeed than a big armed guy that can not process the field (see a guy like Jamarcus Russell) - all the arm talent in the world, but no mentality.

Yes, but there is just as much of a chance with a guy like Peterman - Played well in Death valley against the eventual National Champions. Lacks a great arm, but has shown all of the mental aspects and I think that is much harder to teach than a getting a guy with a big arm and trying to teach him to read defenses. CJ also could not even hold his starting job after his breakout year. I actually think you have a much better chance of getting Peterman to become a star than CJ. CJ was a true shot in the dark needing several years to see if he can even develop.

Mel Kiper also listed the Bills as one of his top two after the 2nd day - loved our 3 picks as of this morning on his show. I have been happy with what they have done.

I would love to see this - then if something happens you have that built in back-up right away.

Not just Gruden - lots of different guys thought he was the most pro ready and loved his ability. His arm strength is a concern - there is no two ways about it, but we will see how hard he works on things. Very happy with this pick. We have some choices at the position and maybe one can change the fortunes of our franchise.

Agreed - have no idea how it will turn out, but sounds a lot Brady - especially related to arm strength and ability to read coverages: Here is at least one copy of Brady pre-draft: Notes: Baseball catcher and football quarterback in high school who was drafted by the Montreal Expos in the 18th round of the June 1995 baseball draft. Opted for football and redshirted at Michigan in '95. Saw limited action in '96 and '97 and started the past two years. Completed 3 of 5 passes for 26 yards, no touchdowns and one interception in '96, 12-15-103-0-0 in '97, 214-350-2,636-15-12 in '98 and 180-295-2,216-16-6 in '99, when he often shared time with super sophomore Drew Henson. Went all the way against Alabama in the Orange Bowl and completed 34-46-369-4. Unlike many Michigan quarterbacks, Brady is a pocket-type passer who plays best in a dropback-type system. Tom Brady Positives: Good height to see the field. Very poised and composed. Smart and alert. Can read coverages. Good accuracy and touch. Produces in big spots and in big games. Has some Brian Griese in him and is a gamer. Generally plays within himself. Team leader. Negatives: Poor build. Very skinny and narrow. Ended the '99 season weighing 195 pounds and still looks like a rail at 211. Looks a little frail and lacks great physical stature and strength. Can get pushed down more easily than you'd like. Lacks mobility and ability to avoid the rush. Lacks a really strong arm. Can't drive the ball down the field and does not throw a really tight spiral. System-type player who can get exposed if he must ad-lib and do things on his own. Summary: Is not what you're looking for in terms of physical stature, strength, arm strength and mobility, but he has the intangibles and production and showed great Griese-like improvement as a senior. Could make it in the right system but will not be for everyone.

The issue with this is you are using the assumption that the #1 next year is worth a second this year - therefore both the Browns and Bills that picked 1st rounders next year look bad. If you keep them as 1st round picks they balance out - there are notes going both ways, but it seems obvious that the teams do not see the future pick the way you do.

I would make that trade every time. Mahomes would be fine early second - maybe very late first, but at 10 it was a classic case of overdrafting for a guy that will give them nothing this year at all. If - and to me it is a very big IF - Mahomes figures it out and is actually better than Smith - KC will be OK, but I still think they are a long way from getting anything and I love getting the extra picks.

Boy - I just disagree with this all the way around. I think they got a guy in White that was considered very pro style ready, played 4 years, and was a true leader. He was considered by some as high as the 2nd best CB and the most versatile and a great fit for this Defense. The Bills also picked a up a 3rd and a first next year. More ammo to get what they need this year and perhaps ensure they get a top QB next year. Love It!

Explain why they would want to spend nearly 15 million on Gilmore - when they drafted a replacement last year and a got extra picks and a leader out of this draft. They drafted Kyle's replacement last year and Gilly's replacement last year. Heck they even drafted a replacement WR last year to be prepared for 2017. It feels to me like this is a hot take - fire Whaley position rather than looking at the actual roster and plan. I do not see wheels spinning - I see them doing what every other team does - making choices on where to spend money and I would take Dareus all day over Gilmore - especially in this defense.

Great - I'm laughing at them - to trade that much to move up for a guy that does nothing to help them this year or next year is a mistake. The Bills are in a better position than they were before the draft started and they got a guy that is a better fit for their defense than what they would of taken at 10. This also puts them in a potentially better spot to get a real franchise QB next year. This came up all positive in my eyes. Plus they got better value than the Browns who moved back almost as far and only got the first next year.

I know yet everyone holds them up as some shining example, but in reality if you have the best QB by far in the league it is hard to do anything else wrong.

The guy is good, but he came in to replace Karlos and we did not miss a beat. We drafted his replacement last year and I am not sure how great of a fit MG was with the new offense. I think this was an acceptable move by the Bills. They did not overpay and NE just got rid of their ideal RB and replaced him with someone that does not fit as well and gave us an additional pick. Do not blow this out of proportion because of your hatred for all things. We are talking about our third leading rusher and a guy that is now on his 4th team in 3+ years. We are the only team that got something for him and it cost us nothing.

Agreed - and not only that, but he is the third RB they have paid this off season and now the Pats have 3 of the top 25 paid RBs in the NFL - a major issue (red flag) for any other team. Every other team would get just destroyed for way overpaying for Mike and having to give up a 5th Round pick, but because of Brady it will not matter - the Pats have the cap space and Brady is what drives the offense - so they just gave another big contract for a minor complimentary player and it will work out just fine.

This is exactly right. They have struggled drafting most positions and would prefer guys with NFL experience that they know fit. The pats have one main advantage over everyone else - They have an Elite QB that gets paid under the table - so he can take less than everyone else and has a huge income wife - so they do not need the extra funds - because of that they can overpay at other positions and they (just like the 90's Bills) get people to come and play for less. The Bills drafting has not been that bad, but the change of coaches and styles has impacted people they have kept on this roster. The hiring of Rex and the thought that they had a set defense - allowed them to take a run at a lot of FAs and they allowed several people to walk away. Some of those guys like Cockrell are starting on other teams because of the coaching changes.

Disagree totally - Kolb was one of the top FA QBs available (albeit with a risk). They wanted to run an uptempo offense with a veteran and that became obvious because shortly after the concussion the team began working on a more traditional paced offense and the uptempo offense went away by week 4. If the plan was to have EJ win the battle and run an uptempo offense - why did they move away from that after a few weeks if as you say EJ looked good in it. The facts point to everything being even they wanted to run a faster pace Chip Kelly offense and have an attacking defense and they wanted someone with experience running that attack - I understand Kolb showed nothing in Buffalo because of the concussion, but we was not going to be beat out by EJ. The fact the Bills moved back and looked to move back again before drafting EJ tells you that they knew he needed work. The fact tha Marrone was not comfortable with the QB situation in either year as seen with the argument at Training Camp and the change to Orton tells me that Marrone wanted a Veteran signal caller to give himself a chance at success. The biggest difference was to see the change in the offense over time - they wanted an uptempo fast paced offense - Kolb gets hurt and the EJ starts game one and they begin to walk back the uptempo offense even though he is alright. By the forth game, they are back to running a traditional offense with more of a rushing attack as they filter through QB after QB. Year two starts and the are a more run first team and then Orton takes over and the passing game begins to open up. Marrone wanted that veteran presence at QB to run his offense and the Kolb injury changed that. Now you can argue whether or not they should have trusted Kolb to stay healthy, but it was obvious from the beginning with the mat his time in Buffalo was doomed.

That is because you want the list to look bad - we can do this another way: The Good - Trading for Hughes, Trading for McCoy, Signing Richie, letting Byrd walk, Signing Z. Brown, signing Alexander, signing Taylor, putting together the talent for a top 5 defense, putting together the talent for a top 10 offense, resigning Taylor at a reduced contract, retaining Richie, Glenn, Wood from a top offensive line, trading back to draft EJ (if you want to give him the EJ pick). The Bad - trading up for Watkins (has great talent and no previous injury history, but you do not trade up for WR), trading up for a MLB. To me nearly everything else is the result of the coaching changes and that was beyond his control. Why do we have so few players drafted left - because we keep changing systems and needs. To build a team faster for a switchover - you sign FAs that fit the new scheme and that costs you draft picks.

Yes - the competition was rigged - Marrone did not want EJ starting - hence the uptempo offense that needed a veteran QB to run it. The Kolb concussion (albeit a definite potential given his history) was a changing point right out of the gate. I think if the owner thought talent was the issue over coaching - he would of made a change. I think the owner sees talented players - guys good enough for the Patriots to covet, but coaching that puts them in a bad position.

Agreed - people act like he planned to start EJ out in year one. That was going to be Kolb's team - hence the plan from Marrone to run a more uptempo offense. When Kolb got that concussion- it changed everything. Whaley to me is an average GM - he (like the GMs in Pittsburgh) works closely with the coaches and tries to take their input into consideration. His job is and has been to field a team that his coaches can win with, but he has been stuck with bad coaches that he did not choose. I want to see how this plays out with Sean for a couple of years. I think his drafting has been alright, but I do not like the trade ups, but I think he was trying to get something specific for his coach - especially last year. Considering a GMs job is to find talent and he has found (even via trade and FA) multiple Pro-Bowlers and added them to the roster and the record has been middle of the pack every year (7-9 wins) - I would say a ranking of 12 - 23 would be more accurate.