Nihilarian

Seriously lame isn't it. This franchise gave a clown like Dick Jauron Mr. 7-9, AKA Skeletor four years. Greg Williams got three years. Gailey got three years. Talk about wasting time... Then Big Mouth Rex Ryan justifiably was fired after two seasons for destroying a top-five defense. Both Mularkey and Marrone quit on the team for different reasons and in Saint Doug's case, I don't blame him for not wanting to work under Whaley. The Bills currently have a head coach and GM that actually seem to know what they are doing NFL football-wise. I happen to love what McD and Beane have done so far in making the playoffs and trading away overpaid dead weight. My take is Josh Allen was the #1 QB in the draft until someone leaked his tweets. Even if somehow Allen fails due to a bad offense and line I still think the kid is a perfect fit in Buffalo. Big, tough, strong arm who is used to playing in cold weather. (sound like another QB who Bills fans love?) A young man who lives to play football and had 900 colleges turn him down until he found Wyoming (at that time he was 6'3 180 lbs) and in his senior season had no veteran players to work with and yet still went 8-5 and won their bowl game. On a side note, Beane still killed this year's draft with Allen, Edmunds, and Phillips.

It doesn't take genius thinking to see what helped win two AFL championships for the 60's Buffalo Bills as they had all pros, pro bowlers all over the roster back then. Look back at each time the Bills made the playoffs from the 60's to the nineties and even last year those teams all had above average offensive line players. We already know that the 2017 Buffalo Bills had LT Dawkins, LG Incognito, and Center Eric Wood. The 1988-1996 Bills had stalwarts LT Will Wolford, LG Jim Ritcher, OC Kent Hull, Tim Vogler, Joe Devlin-Plus later on Howard Ballard, John Davis, John Fina, Glenn Parker, Ruben Brown. What's crazy was Ritcher was a first-round pick of Chuck Knox's in 1980 when the team already had a really good line and he played from 1980 to 1995. The 1980-1981 Bills had Joe Devlin, Conrad Dobler, Will Grant, Reggie McKenzie, Ken Jones which was a pretty good lineup from blocking for OJ. If the current Buffalo Bills ever want to contend for a super bowl they need to contend with teams like the Jacksonville Jaguars and their great defense, they need to upgrade the talent on that line. Go back and watch that playoff game to see why Buffalo lost scoring only 3 pts, 148 yards passing with 2 ints...A different QB is going to change that outcome if he doesn't have time to throw. Look who Buffalo plays in 2018 for the first eight games, @ Baltimore Ravens (top 10 defense)-Chargers (top 10 defense with DE who states he wasn't even blocked against the Bills in 2017) @ Minnesota Vikings (#1 overall defense in 2017) @ Green Bay with new DC Mike Pettine, Tennessee, @ Houston, @ Indy, New England. 0-8 is a real possibility in my view.

We have all seen this before with new GM, HC in thinking that an average or below average joe can replace pro bowlers...and they can't! The Bills attempted to replace pro bowl pro bowl LT Jason Peters with a 7th rounder and that was a failed position with numerous players not making the cut for a few years until the club drafted Cordy Glenn. Back then the Bills had an O line coach legend in Jim McNally who took a walk on TE and converted him into that pro bowl left tackle. Sadly McNally retired in 2007 and Jauron promoted within the Org. Dick Jauron watched in horror as Jets NT Kriss Jenkins ate three Bills at the line and still got to the QB/RB play after play and the very next draft they drafted OC Eric Wood and OG Andy Levitre. In 2010 Buddy Nix announced to the NFL world, "you're going to think I'm crazy but we're not that far away". In the offseason, Nix brought in OT Cornell Green at 2 mill per to help solidify the line and he lasted exactly five games before being cut. Luckily, Nix was able to find Kraig Urbik and Erik Pears off the waiver wire to help save part of the second half of the season. It didn't help the first half as the 2010 Buffalo Bills went 0-8 with the QB's literally running for their lives and finished that year 4-10. 2018 could very well be another 2010 4-10 type season with a very bad offensive line.

It's going to be very difficult for any of the teams QB's to play well behind a makeshift O line that drastically regressed this offseason. I think the coaches are keeping Allen at third string in order to protect him to a degree. What they don't comprehend is that EJ and Peterman might not last long as starters and then Allen will be thrown to the wolves as the Bills have a very difficult schedule ahead of them this year. They also don't get that while Shady McCoy is still an excellent RB that he can't block for himself or open his own holes. A QB with less than two seconds to throw and a RB who gets tackled in the backfield doesn't make for a good offense. No matter how good that defense is going to be this year they won't last if they are on the field all game long. What's rather sad in my view is that it would have been an uphill battle for Allen even with Wood and Incognito in there due to that right side being so bad and now it looks like a complete clusterfluck across the line. Another sad thing is this team might be so bad that the coaches/FO all might get fired if they pull off a Cleveland Browns type season. OTOH, had the Bills upgraded the line with some quality players LG, OC, RT that would have allowed Allen to develop properly I think the team would soon see a really good NFL starting QB.

What's funny is that last year was being criticized as a tank year after moving Sammy, Marcell, Woods, Gilmore, Gillislee among others. They dumped some big salaries along with some not really worth the money players, and yet the team made the playoffs. Still, the key point here for 2018 is the Bills lost Center Eric Wood, all pro LG Richie Incognito and traded away Cordy Glenn. Meanwhile, the FO didn't upgrade any of those positions in the draft. Plus the team moved away from the running QB who could neutralize a somewhat bad right side of the line with his scrambling ability. Now.this year the team wants the QB's to be strictly pocket throwers with a much worse line. Things could get really ugly really quickly and make that 5 INT's in a half by Peterman look like a normal occurrence every game this year. Everything is going to depend on how that offensive line can hold up this year or if this FO can pull off a Buddy Nix and find some usable bandaids off the waiver wire like he did with Erik Pears, Kraig Urbik. Walterfootball has the Bills picking #2 behind Miami in the 2019 NFL draft. If so I think the Bills are taking a bunch of offensive linemen in that draft.

Of course! The fact that Darnold has had 22 turnovers in 13 games reminds me so much of Mr. Buttfuble Mark Sanchez. 13 INT's, 9 fumbles. His very first snap as a pro he fumbled it. The turnover total is alarming.

The only thing I miss about Rex Ryan was his idea of building a better offensive line to run the ball and control the clock. I do believe in 2015 he was chasing an undrafted free agent 6'4 320lb OT in La'el Collins who eventually signed with Dallas. As outdated as his ideas on how to run a defense were...the man also had the idea of signing QB Tyrod Taylor, OG Richie Incognito and if he has managed to sign Collins that line would have been even better.

Amen. A great head coach who got it done in Buffalo mostly all by himself. The teams GM and team president were useless at that time. Knox not only turned around the team he also rejuvenated the entire city during his time in Buffalo.

I stand corrected on that all pro point and should have said pro bowler. Incognito was graded as the best lineman on the Bills and some sites have graded him as one of the top offensive guards in the league. Nevertheless, I feel that Incognito elevated the play of Glenn, Woods, and Dawkins. I also think there will be a big problem with continuity along with a drop off in quality play with all the new, young players on that line. Not to mention that I don't think very highly of the O line coach Juan Castillio who IMO is nowhere near as good as Kromer as a line coach nor as good as Anthony Lynn as a run game coordinator. All this just bothers me that yet another Bills regime would go into a season with a cast of young QB's on the roster and besides Dawkins some not very quality linemen. It remains to be seen what kind of play we will get from Dawkins this year. Hoping that line will be okay doesn't cut it in my view.

I too love what this regime has done so far in dumping the big salaries on underachievers while bringing is some stellar talent. However, what they are doing is almost ignoring the very same thing that caused so many regimes to fail for the last two decades. While I've witnessed regime after regime thinking that they can put anyone in there to block for the RB, QB and the team loses season after season. Yet they were willing to pay a pass rushing DE 100 million dollars who didn't get the team any closer to the playoffs. They were willing to spend a #3 overall draft pick on a DT who also didn't get the team closer to the playoffs. It took a past his time old defensive-minded head coach to bring in an all-pro LT that nobody else was willing to take a chance on and if he could have he also would have signed another troubled free agent offensive guard who instead chose to sign with Dallas. Rex Ryan might have ruined a top-five Bills defense but he was smart enough to know how to improve the Bills QB situation and offensive line situation. This year the Bills took an LBer with their second #1 pick and a DT with their 3rd round pick and I can't complain about either pick because they were steals. Still, the Bills didn't address their line until the fifth round. This year's defense looks like it will be great. But we have seen a top 5 defense not even get the team into the playoffs in 2014. I like these new men too much to watch them ruin themselves like so many others have done. The best predictors of future behavior are past behavior. If only this team built an offensive line like the Dallas Cowboys did before they drafted RB Ezekiel Elliott and Dak Prescott. The Buffalo Bills just drafted a kid with an arm like the NFL has never seen and am hoping they redshirt him until next year after they do indeed rebuild that line. Sucks for McCoy though.

I think to look at this kid and Wyatt Teller to be starters any time soon is a true pipe dream. Usually, kids taken later than the third round are huge question marks and usually end up on the practice squad or as backups. Buffalo just lost above average players at LT, LG, OC and that OG was an all-pro. Expecting a fifth-round draft pick to replace him is delusional. This reminds me of trading away All-pro LT Jason Peters and then attempting to replace him with Demtress Bell, a 7th round pick. Like Bill stated for almost two decades we Bills fans have watched regime after regime screw the pooch on wannabes for the O line that end up allowing the QB to get killed. He also might be right in the Bills having the #2 pick next year because of having the worst O line in the league...and this with a once in a lifetime QB with the most powerful arm the NFL has ever seen.

I'm sure they have a plan. Just as sure as Tom Donahoe had a plan when he traded for QB Drew Bledsoe and knew that he needed a better line to protect him. So Donahoe drafted a left tackle with the #1 pick that year, #4 overall. He blew it as Texas Tackle Mike Williams was never a LT and played as a RT for three years before switching to OG. Williams was considered a huge bust. In 2008 Dick Jauron and Marv Levy had a plan when they brought in over paid-high priced free agents LG Derrick Dockery, RT Langston Walker which really pissed off the underpaid all-pro left tackle so much so that he was talking about holding out. The line never improved with those free agents as they both stunk. JP Losman, Trent Edwards got pretty beat up behind some bad lines. Edwards was concussed out of the league and still suffers from them at a young age. Then, Dick Jauron, Russ Brandon had a plan traded away all-pro left tackle in Jason Peters who was considered one of the very best LTs in the league. Then drafted DE Aaron Maybin "bust" with the first pick and that left tackle position was manned by a 7th round draft choice. This was in 2009 and the Bills didn't really address the left tackle position until 2012 when they got lucky by drafting Cordy Glenn. The good thing Jauron did was draft OC Eric Wood in the first after Maybin pick and OG Andy Levitre with the 2nd second round pick. Buddy Nix had a plan in 2010 when he stated, "you're going to think I'm crazy, but we're not that far away" This was after Nix signed OT Cornell Green for 2 mill per to see him outright cut after week after 5 games. Meanwhile, HC Gailey cuts his starting QB in Trent Edwards after only two games and names Ryan Fitzpatrick as his starting QB only to watch him run for his life the next 6 games. The 2010 Buffalo Bills started the season 0-8 and finished 4-12. The Bills managed to do okay the next year as Nix was able to pull some band-aids scrubs off the waiver wire. Doug Whaley, Doug Marone had a plan when they drafted rookie QB EJ Manuel only to not hire a QB coach or have a veteran QB on the roster so the only person that EJ, Thad Lewis and walk on QB Jeff Tuel had to learn from was an OC who had never been an NFL OC previously. He was the OC at Syracuse under Marrone the year before. what a cluster fluck. The Bills next hire a defensive minded HC who ruined a top 5 defense but he did manage to find the Bills starting QB who eventually took them to the playoffs. He was also responsible for signing an all-pro left guard that really helped solidify that line. Glenn was an overpaid LT who's play started to drop off until Incognito was signed and the same can be said for center Eric Wood. The Bills lost three solid starters on the offensive line and didn't do anything in the draft to fix that besides a 5th round pick at OG. You know how many 5th round picks actually make it and become a starter in the league? The Bills used that 3rd round pick on a DT and I'm not complaining because he was a steal. I've seen this same scenario play out over and over the last two decades of losing. Look back to the super bowl years to see HoF QB Jim Kelly had a pro bowl LT, LG, OC to protect him and HoF RB Thurman Thomas, HoF WR Andre Reed had those men helping them make plays. Even the AFL Championship teams had elite offensive lines.

This is my fear as McD is a defensive minded coach and they tend to favor the defense over the offense. This team just lost an all-pro at LG and an above average center & left tackle. The players for the offensive line on the roster are now a bunch of scrubs in comparison to what the team lost this offseason. They brought in Dawkins to upgrade the RT position and justifiably so because Mills is the weakest link. That plan went out the window so what now? Center's, Bodine, Redmond. Guards, Ducasse, Groy, Miller, Teller. Tackles, Dawkins, James, McDermott, Mills, Newhouse, Wesley. I don't think it matters much what type of offensive scheme this team runs this year if the RB can't gain yards because there are no holes. I can foresee it now with the coaches blaming the RB for not hitting that crease quicker...when it lasts a split second. This really sucks for McCoy The QB's won't have time to throw with the pass rush in their face after 2 seconds. I look at the first few games Ravens, Chargers, Vikings, Packers and all I see are jailbreaks with whoever is at QB for Buffalo running for his life. BTW, thanks for posting OP, good read. Good discussion.

These men need to work together to make that line a solid unit that works cohesively. I kind of think it was more Cogs helping out that rookie tackle then it was a failure to do his own job. I can see why the guy might want to retire at this point if the team is low balling him on money as he will really be tested without Glenn, Woods next to him. Without those tried and true veterans next to him it would make his job infinitely more difficult. The Bills face the Chargers in week two and Vikings week three. I just hope these young Bills QBs survive some of these games this year. Scary to me with Castillo still the line coach, run game coordinator.

The guy they fired was the passing game coordinator, Rick Dennison. The O line/run game coordinator is still with the team Juan Castillio. IMO Castillo should have been fired too. In 2016 Buffalo was #2 in rushing attempts, #1 in rushing yards, #1 in rushing TDs, #1 in rushing yards per carry average. in 2017 Buffalo was #4 in rushing attempts, #6 in rushing yards, #15 in rushing TDs, #14 in rushing yards per carry average. For most of the early part of last year, McCoy was having a tough time of it during some games. The team was able to gain a good deal of rush yards later in the year. Nevertheless, Mccoy had his YPC average drop a significant 1.4 YPC. from 5.4 to 4.0. You guys need to understand the difference between having a top left guard on the line and JAG. Wood, Incognito, and Glenn added some real stability to that line called continuity so when Glenn went out Dawkins stepped in pretty well. He could be that good on his own but I suspect he played better because Incognito was in there next to him. Incognito also elevated Glenn's play too. We shall soon see if Dawkins is a viable left tackle without that all pro left guard next to him. I think Dawkins will suffer big time without that anchor next to him. Losing an above average center, LG and LT are going to take its toll, trust me. A 5th round draft pick is not going to replace an all-pro. Look back to 2010 when Buddy Nix stated: "we're not that far away". Then the team went 0-8 with Fitz running for his life most of the time. This line looks that bad to me. JMO

Except this team doesn't have a top legit receiver corps or offensive line so starting him in day one is a good way to ruin him and all the QB's on the current roster. Let AJ Mccarron take the heat to see if this line can block and if not let Peterman and McCarron get killed this year. Leave the top rookie on the bench for now unless the coaches pull off a miracle and find a way to protect the QB's. I suspect McCoy will have a difficult time this year too.

I don't think the QB situation is as bad as the offensive line situation...which is going to get the QBs killed...along with no run game as McCoy can't block for himself.

I agree. Bills fans are delusional if they think you can replace an all-pro position with a fifth-round draft pick and expect everything to be fine. Mills should have been a backup last year with Dawkins at RT. Although Dawkins did well at left tackle he also had an all-pro left guard to help him out. Who knows if he will look even remotely as good as he did last year with a scrub next to him this year. The Bills just lost all continuity on that line when they lost an above average center, left tackle and all-pro left guard. This new offensive line look might just be a QB killer/regime killer if it doesn't get drastically upgraded very quickly. It's like Buddy Nix is back and it's 2010 all over again...shoot, at least that team had Woods and Levitre in their 0-8 start.

As am I, as am I. Rex Ryan was the wrong hire from day one and we all should be grateful that Whaley, Brandon brought about their own demise with their stupidity. My take on the situation is that Russ Brandon convinced the Pegula's to give Whaley some time to get things right. Probably out of respect for Ralph Wilson I think the new owners wanted to see how things went before making any major changes. I also think they hired a consultant after things didn't go quite as anticipated after that 9-7 season and Marrone stepping away. Let's not forget that Brandon was there prodding the Pegula's to "not let Rex Ryan leave the building". 2015 saw that #5 defense head into the ceramic convenience with the supposed defensive guru the sole reason for this nosedive. From 8-8 to 7-9 and suddenly Ryan lost all credibility as did Doug Whaley. On another note. While things have changed for the better in so many ways since the McD hire. My biggest concern now is will this defensive-minded head coach fall victim to what killed so many other regimes since Marv levy, Wade Phillips eras. That is not having a superior talent offensive line like the team had for their super bowl years. The team just lost an above average center, left tackle along with their all-pro left guard. Things could go south very quickly for this new regime.

While I agree to a point that we don't know if Deball will be another Pederson and all we fans can do is hope he is close to that good. I think the more important issue is the offensive line and the fact that McD has already stated the best man will win the starting job. This scares the hell out of me because i think Allen will win the starting job and then get ruined along the way. Even if he doesn't win the starting job and the Bills have him as the third string I think the first two (AJ & Mr 5 pick) will get destroyed in short order and Allen still gets ruined. Like Dilfer stated its imperitive that Allen sit and learn at least until that line gains some continuity and should that never happen this year then Allen should sit. JMO

I think there were three of us that really liked Josh Allen before he was a Buffalo Bill. Bandit, Metz and myself. This year I really studied all four of the top QB's and came away so impressed with Allen and what he has accomplished since high school. He was the only QB in this year's draft I wanted to see become a Buffalo Bill. So very happy he became a Bill and I think over time he will win over very Bills fan. Watch This!

Awesome, love Kim Pegula! Now that Brandon is gone I hope they find someone who will actually get some good sponsors in there to upgrade the experience.

I think Allen was the Buffalo Bills #1 QB all along and here is why. Allen has that big frame with powerful arm and he played in the snow, cold and wind at Wyoming. Darnold with his 22 turnovers in 13 games and that wasn't even in cold weather. Rosen with his fragile scrawny frame and Mayfield with his attitude, play style. That said I think the Bills would have had to accept who fell to them out of the top four and I kinda doubt that any of those four would have been off their board. Who knows what would have happened had the NY Giants actually wanted to trade that #2 pick without asking for that 2019 first. Or any of the other teams willing to let Buffalo trade up other than Tampa. As it turned out the Bills landed what I think is the perfect fit for the Bills fans to love, a big, tough blue-collar type QB with a cannon for an arm. Get used to seeing frozen ropes!

What I was basically saying was that when you have such a strong stabilizing force at left guard it helps both the center and left tackle play better. Woods was an above average player and so was Glenn without Incognito and an all pro in there allowed them to be even better. Replacing all three at once will be a daunting task as the right side was already weak with Mills at right tackle and I can only think that before Glenn's injury Dawkins was brought in to lock down that RT position. Now that isn't going to happen. We really don't know how good Dawkins will be at LT without that stabilizing force next to him and he may or may not hold up well this season. The Bills have Groy listed as an OG on the website with Russell and Adam as centers. Ducasse, Groy Miller, and Teller at OG. Dawkins, James, McDermott, Mills, Newhouse, Wesley at tackle. From what I see they lost all continuity on that line and losing all three veteran quality starters will be a huge issue going forward. This reminds me of 2010 where the Bills line was a hot mess and that year they even had Wood, Levitre. That season started 0-8 and finished 4-12 because the QBs were running for their lives most of the time. That season the Bills had Fitz who was able to do his Mike Vick impression with 269 yards rushing @ 6.7 YPC avg. Man, I can only hope that Allen isn't thrown into the fire with that current line or all the effort and picks put into finding that unique talent will be wasted. JMHO.

This is it exactly. All the top QBs had better talent around them in 2017 over Allen. What worries me is that Cam Newton had better talent around him in his first season. If you look at the quality of players around Newton in his first season he had a bunch of first and second rounders on that offensive line that was veteran players like all pro center Ryan Kalil. Greg Olsen at TE, Steve Smith at WR. That 2011 Panther team was 11th in rushing attempts yet were #3 in yards, #1 in TDs and #1 in YPA. Granted Newton had 706 yards rushing and 14 rushing TD's. He also had 4051 passing yards. Now Allen will have McCoy at RB, Benjamin at WR, Charles Clay at TE. But his offensive line will be hot garbage with no Incognito, Woods or Glenn. That all-pro at left guard made both the center and left tackle that looked so much better than they actually were. The Buffalo Bills need to drastically upgrade the talent on that offensive line or no QB will play well in 2018.