P51

It's always fluid, lol. Tim Williams is a guy I could see flying up boards with a Von Miller like combine, the best pure pass rusher in the draft, I'm still trying to figure out his run stopping ability. No Jamal Adams? I am interested to hear your thoughts on King? I'm in the he's a potential elite safety boat myself, he seems at his best with his eyes on the QB and his best coverage plays are out of zone coverage reading and reacting, his worst seem in man, the Perdue game I though showed this in his + and - plays in that game. Good physicality and IQ for sure. I don't see the long speed with him to cover the deep field in man, IMO he's pretty restricted to zone schemes, reminds me of Rhonde Barber a lot and he would be a amazing Tampa two corner. I agree with the secondary and Edge/DE/OLB/Hybrid being loaded 100%

I'm even more on the Ayers comp now sounds like my faulty memory of my thoughts him, Its a deep DE class too, not sure they take one early, but I could see one later in the draft. Barnett seems to play the run and set the edge well...

Those are my top 10 players as of now (subject to change as well). I'm repeating myself, but this is by far the best safety class I can recall in the 20 years I've followed the draft, and the corners look like they'll run into the 3rd round with quality depth, there are a lot. I'm not seeing any top ten yet, but I'm just getting into them and there is a lot from what I've seen so far. Love your top 4 What's your thoughts on Barnett? I see good coordination and technique, he seems to get low coming around the edge (the power reminds me of Mack doing so, not as explosive though), plays with good strength and strong hands. Not sure he'll be as effective as a pass rusher in the NFL, kind of reminds me of Robert Ayers.

Agree on Conley, 100%, seems dependable on a play by play basis. Lattimore I need to focus on more, good to hear he has matured, the athleticism is evident from what I have seen. I appreciate the response! Wondering what people's top ten looks like at this time. Mine: 1 - M. Garrett (DE - Texas A & M) 2 - J. Allen (DE/DT - Alabama) 3 - M. Hooker (FS - OSU) 4 - J. Adams (SS/FS - LSU) 5 - R. Foster (LB - Alabama) IMO these first 5 are elite level players. 6 - L. Fournette (RB - LSU) 7 - C. Davis (WR - W. Michigan) 8 - D. Cook (RB - FSU) 9 - C. Robinson (RT/LT - Alabama) 10 - Mike Williams (WR - Clemson)

Fair enough, what separates Lattimore and Conley for you? I just started looking into the two of them, lots to like for both. Agreed on Budda B., game changer, I think he'll climb boards as his testing information and tape evals start to come out, I have a 1st round grade on him.

This draft is very deep in the secondary, I wouldnt pass up J. Adams at 10 as IMO B. Baker will gone at the end of the 1st or early 2nd coverage skills are impressive, love me some Buddah!! Having said that, Hooker and Adams are good enough to both be gone before the 10th pick... Regardless, he would be a great pick up in the 2nd Love Conley as well, from what Ive seen watching Hooker and the OSU secondary, Conley has been covering the opposing #1 mostly from my observations, M. Lattimore; Higher ceiling vs. Conley: more polished and technically sound, what say ye?

Another solid comp, I'd take Brooks at 10 in any draft. I'll be interested to see who ends up as the DC next year, both could be playing ILB in a 34, or if a guy like Gus Bradley comes in Ragland could be obsolete, I do like the thought of both on the field even in a 43, nothing wrong with two hammers on the field. I was not impressed with the Browns Brothers tackling at all towards the end of the season, I'd be fine with replacing them both.

He could play inside no doubt about it, takes on blocks with the strength to anchor, ability to stack and shed. This guy wont be limited to OLB in the NFL why I think he goes higher than many others do, he's an inside out eraser, obviously I agree with the Kuechly/Willis comp. He'd instantly be our best backer.

He's best suited in a 43, wasn't 14' the only decent run D in the last 5-6 years?

I was thinking the other day that if Bradley comes in as DC, Foster would be the perfect fit at LB for his defense as a Bobby Wagner type. I think he's a top 10 guy myself. Love Hooker or Adams too, both are talented enough to make it worth going Safety at ten, both are top 10 talents IMO. Foster is going to go higher than most think, watch last years NCG, he's got a Kuechly/Willis level skill set. I am not sure yet if he's capable of making the defensive calls, but if he does/can... If these 3 are off the board, and no QB worthy is there (I don't see one myself), Corey Davis would be worthy IMO, my #1 WR and a more diverse WR than Mike Williams (that name alone gives me pause) who would work if the other 4 are off the board. Haven't seen enough of Cunningham to comment. not a Peppers fan myself.

Hard to argue with this. I would add having a QB who can pass efficiently at a NFL caliber level to the equation as well.

Kind of like all those Alabama guys that work out, Trent Richardson and Dee Milliner certainly help prove that going big school is a sure fire way to hit in the draft!! That 4.59-4.71 slow 40 time was ultimately what did Jerry Rice in, still cant believe the 9ers wasted a high pick on him, that pesky game speed is completely over rated, its all about straight line speed in a track gear, when will teams get the memo... Fine print: Corey Davis is my #1 rated WR at this time.

, If he is looking at Josh Norman money and in particular bonus money, I dont believe Whaley should do it, he's not worth that kind of money unless you have money to burn and I havent see anything remotely close to that being the case cap wise in Buffalo. He is a good cover corner, but highest paid corner in the league worthy? I dont think so, he seems to be limited to playing on the defensive right side of the field and doesnt mirror the opposing teams #1. If he's willing to be reasonable and wants to come back (not sure he does), and it doesnt break the bank to do so, then by all means bring him back. Will he get paid and find his heart? On the bright side, if Hooker comes out this is the best Safety class I can recall at this point in the process in 20 years. The corner class at this point to me is very deep, not top heavy, but I believe it runs deep with good talent, overall IMO this is shaping up to be a very good secondary draft overall. Very good post by the way, good points and they let Spiller walk when they traded for McCoy, which seems to working out...

Thank you, Gilmore was covering #17 Dres Anderson who ran the quick/speed out (1 route as bandito pointed out) which is usually the main read on that route combination from what I know T. Smith clears out deep drawing the single high safety and field corner away deep, Patton (not Kerley...) takes the pressing corner inside and picks (NE who?) or forces the inside boundary cb to run over the top of him in man coverage, while the inside wr runs scot free on the quick out like he did on this play with Gilmore being put in a tough spot by design, notice how Anderson delays running his route, waiting for the other WRs to run infront of Gilmore before accelerating into his route, usually it's meant to attack the eye discipline of a particular db giving him 2 things obstructing his vision on his actual assignment, IMO it's a great play design as if the coverage goes deep like it should have, the guy in the flat is wide open meant to beat the man coverage but the coverage roles up mistakenly and Kap sees it, boom TD. There is no coverage I have ever heard of or seen where the inside CB in trips coverage has the coverage on the outside wr running any deep route in man. IMO Gilmore looks lost in space on that play by offensive design knowing Buffalo mans up a lot. 🤗 +1

I could not agree more, +1. My pleasure

I think you and mike are right and ypp.com needs to look a little deeper. * I do not know the play call * I played CB/SS (through 1AA under a great secondary coach) and have coached the secondary before (at the high school level), this is primarily Darby's fault all day IMO. He's not in zone (it doesnt make sense), there is no way watching the other players, AW is the SHS, Z. Brown Band is either a spy or a zone defender(possible robber concept), everyone else is manning up, head up on their coverage responsibility (Graham on the TE, P. Brown on the RB, R-C on the slot/Kerley and so on) and covers that guy post snap. I'd bet AW was peaking in the backfield or at something he shouldnt be, his single responsibility looking at it presnap and what happened post snap was to not let anyone get over the top of him (should be), and especially T. Smith... Which makes me believe secondarily he is culpable as well. Even if Darby was playing some sort of zone from that far off, it should still be his primary responsibility to cover the deep field. p.s. I dont know the defensive play call, but roughly 20 years of secondary related experience tells me #28 and #23 were the responsible parties on this play not #24. Seconds 11-18 of the youtube video link sums all of this up, the all 22 should confirm it. Thats my .02...

Very well done Bo, I agree with everything for the most part and what I don't is nitpicking of a high degree. TT def. threw off platform, but the placement was actually good leading Woods, hard to tell about the trajectory, regardless he threw the ball about a stride too far maybe needing a little more air under it on the deep ball too Woods. The screen to Clay and it was a TE screen no doubt, had me cursing Clay Sunday afternoon, the ball placement might have been the best I have ever seen from TT on a short pass, right on the sweet spot leading Clay and his momentum into the open area behind his convoy heading up field. As discussed in the thread, he has a defender (A. Donald) heading his way, who interestingly had a faster combine 40 than Clay, but Clay should have caught that ball and run a long way if not All the way. Great call by Lynn and execution by all but 85. Goodwin and Woods drops are all on them as well. The Powell drop looked like gator arms to me as well and once that ball gets into the pads, it's hard to catch off the ricochet. I couldn't tell if the defender got his hand on the ball or not, so could have been a good play by Johnson I think in coverage... Generally speaking I agree TT was let down more than he let down, good stuff, great post, thank you!

He's a very poor mans Brandon Marshall (IMO), minus the physicality, strength and fire to make plays, he is a deep threat with all the physical deep threat talent in the world, but sloppy footwork on short and intermediate routes, nothing has changed since college, he's still one a one dimensional clean deep ball threat who won't win contested balls and worse for him is he tends to be a body catcher. Fortunately for him, if he can be the vertical threat they need now and paired in the future w/a healthy Sammy, it could be exactly what the offense they have and I think want to run, could need. Why not role the dice and see if he can be what he was heading towards before his ACL injury at Tenn. They need him to stretch the field... and Sammy to get healthy...

+1 Ill pitch in...

And he could be cut at any time with no cap penalties by a new team. Looks like Buffalo has about 11-12 million in cap space, they could easily send a late pick to Baltimore and secure him for a year and see if he works out at RT. Minimal risk, he's been injury prone the last couple years, but could be the solution at RT. If they cut him, he could be signed for cheaper likely, but would he come to Buffalo? I'd send a late round pick for him myself, worth the risk and you know the Doc would clear him...

No problem and no worries, if Sammy had the surgery a month ago he should be fully healed by July or August at the latest it looks like with no need to rush him back, he should be ready to roll for camp and I would think the re-injury issues will be decreased.

Not a confirmation from what I have seen, mostly just that he broke his foot and had a screw inserted. Nor has it been reported how it happened. Only thing that seems to be true is he had a broken foot of some kind, and had a screw inserted a month ago.

My rates are pretty consistent across all the literature I have read about Jones Fractures as it pertains to professional athletes, no where did it state that a Jones Fracture ended a players career and the re-fracture rate was around 7% I thought, this research article has it at 4-12%: Despite appropriate operative treatment along with advances in technique and implants, nonunion and refracture continue to occur in 4% to 12% of athletes. Return to Play in National Football League Players After Operative Jones Fracture Treatment (PDF Download Available). Available from: https://www.researchgate.net/publication/281683456_Return_to_Play_in_National_Football_League_Players_After_Operative_Jones_Fracture_Treatment [accessed May 20, 2016]. My research based article is based on NFL players having a screw inserted to expedite the healing process. The one you mention is a general information article about for the general public the discusses the relative rates for the general public after other treatment options: " Jones fracture surgery is usually performed if the fracture is displaced, if it does not heal properly, or if the problem is chronic." The two articles are discussing the same thing, but with completely different circumstances. There is a huge difference between Sammy/Julio or any other NFL player and Joe Schmoe. In this case series, we report the results of 25 consecutive NFL players who underwent percutaneous fixation of an acute proximal fifth metatarsal fracture with an indication-specific screw. Return to Play in National Football League Players After Operative Jones Fracture Treatment (PDF Download Available). Available from: https://www.researchgate.net/publication/281683456_Return_to_Play_in_National_Football_League_Players_After_Operative_Jones_Fracture_Treatment [accessed May 20, 2016]. VS. A Jones fracture is often mistaken for a sprain or an avulsion fracture. This is why it’s important to have your injury diagnosed as soon as possible. Two completely different animals. Its a bad spot because of the blood supply issue, but even if a 2nd surgery is needed, that from what I have read is usually the end of it. Our series of 25 NFL players is the largest reported series of professional athletes with Jones fractures treated by a single surgeon with the same technique and an accelerated rehabili-tation protocol. Our data demonstrate that 100% of players were able to return to play and 80% were most recently still in the league. Return to Play in National Football League Players After Operative Jones Fracture Treatment (PDF Download Available). Available from: https://www.researchgate.net/publication/281683456_Return_to_Play_in_National_Football_League_Players_After_Operative_Jones_Fracture_Treatment [accessed May 20, 2016]. I cannot comment as to the other articles you read as I may or may not have, and do not know their connection to this discussion.

Everything I have read and ever heard on the Jones Fracture Surgery implies that the main issue is re-fracturing it by coming back too early, similar to Tony Romo returning too early from his broken collar bone. So IMO for Sammy, they need to make sure its healed and not get him back before its ready. If my memory serves me, about 7% of athletes who had this surgery re-broke it and needed a 2nd surgery. As for Woods, I thought Vic Carucci summarized his situation very well in his article regarding Sammy this morning: "Who else is going to consistently catch those kinds of throws from Tyrod Taylor? Woods? Doubtful. In Greg Roman's offense, he became mainly a blocker last season. His greatest trait as a receiver is the ability to run precise routes, especially on intermediate throws, but that doesn't carry much value for the way the Bills operate. Otherwise, Hogan would still be on the team." Basically, Tyrod and the passing offense is a vertical offense that does not utilize Roberts strengths. Hypothetically speaking; Reggie Wayne would be as underutilized in this offense, and viewed similarly. Clearly Robert isnt Reggie, but he's not that far off skill wise IMO. I would love to see the DVOA and DYAR numbers for the games where Orton was the QB throwing to Woods, because his reception rate nearly doubled in those games from the numbers I did. I'd bet Woods would have much better numbers in general in NE or NOLA, or in a WC system, with a true passing QB.

Julio Jones seems be doing just fine post Jones fracture surgery and to cross sport this point, Kevin Durant seems to have made it back from the surgery, Marvin Jones got a big pay day 2 years after having it, and Julian Edelman came back from it in season last year and posted a 100 yard receiving game in the play offs coming back from it... Its not a long term career altering injury and they didnt cut his foot off. The recovery rate for this surgery is about 100% from what I have read, its not microfracture surgery. This is consistent with the findings of Carreira et al who showed no significant difference in participation fol- lowing Jones fracture based on the NFL Combine database for a single team over a 6-year period. 2 Return to Play in National Football League Players After Operative Jones Fracture Treatment (PDF Download Available). Available from: https://www.researchgate.net/publication/281683456_Return_to_Play_in_National_Football_League_Players_After_Operative_Jones_Fracture_Treatment [accessed May 19, 2016]. Woods reception rate went from 38% with Manuel to 72% with Orton in 2014, coincidence? Hmm... What are Taylor short comings passing the ball? Maybe the QB play/ability has something to do with the reception rate for Woods?? Just a thought.