MR8

The question was asked, and it's worth putting up the information so at the very least if it's being discussed, it's being discussed with the actual facts and figures rather than guess work. Honestly with a guy with his injury history, I don't think it's ever too early to discuss potential exit strategy from their contract, just in case. On another forum leading up to the draft I was advocating for the Bills to draft a Center in the 2nd or 3rd round, just in case. Worst case you have the C play OG and be a center in case of emergency... but if emergency comes, wouldn't you rather have a guy ready to go? Long can do spot duty but no one wants him to be a center long term, his grading there versus OG is starkly different. It's always worth a discussion... but I don't think anyone is beating the drum for cutting him man. But a discussion of "what if" is worth being had.... hell what if he decides it's not worth it to him to keep playing with all these injuries and retires after the year? We still need to know how that will impact us...

From OTC Current Contract (?: indicates contract trigger occuring during that year) Year Age Base Salary Prorated Bonus Roster Bonus Per Game Roster Bonus Workout Bonus Guaranteed Salary Cap Number Cap % Dead Money & Cap Savings Cut (pre-June 1)Cut (post-June 1)Trade (pre-June 1)Trade (post-June 1)RestructureExtension Total $25,100,000 $11,000,000 $5,000,000 $3,000,000 $400,000 $9,400,000 $44,187,500 2019 26 $4,400,000 $2,750,000 $3,000,000 $1,000,000 $100,000 $7,400,000 $10,937,500 5.8% $20,400,000 ($9,462,500) 2020 ? 27 $6,775,000 $2,750,000 $1,000,000 $1,000,000 $100,000 $2,000,000 $11,625,000 5.8% $10,250,000 $1,375,000 2021 28 $7,025,000 $2,750,000 $0 $500,000 $100,000 $0 $10,375,000 -- $5,500,000 $4,875,000 2022 ? 29 $6,900,000 $2,750,000 $1,000,000 $500,000 $100,000 $0 $11,250,000 -- $2,750,000 $8,500,000 Looks like we could dump him in 2020 with savings of $1.375M and he savings go up each year... but this year hes our's for sure.

IMO they thought they were going to be 3-13 in 2017, I think McDermott was prepared to tank it out HARD in that first year. Cut players, eat dead cap in 2017 and 2018, and then turn this thing around. But something happened, the stars aligned where other teams were bad too, and on top of that our team outperformed expectations and even what McDermott thought they'd do. Then in a miracle catch, the Bills got swept into the playoffs on luck, rather than being the bottom of the league team everyone, McDermott included, though't they'd be. They were shooting for a top 3 pick in the 2018 draft so they could add their QB of the future, and they collected draft picks along the way so they could rebuild the roster through the draft. However those wins that made us all so happy, hurt their draft strategy. But they were fine with it, they went so far as to add that waste of space Benji right before the deadline to make a push for the playoffs. So they embraced it, when they found themselves in the hunt. But some questionable decisions like starting Peterman were still made. I think they do deserve credit for their bold attempt to bottom out in 2017... they dumped talent for draft picks and shed salary knowing they'd eat the cap penalties in 2018 in preparation for 2019 and beyond. The thing is, it didn't work out the way they thought it would because they surprisingly won games in 2017. Something no one saw coming... which is all a part of the parody of the NFL and why tanking doesn't always work... They smartly still stockpiled draft picks, which enabled them to move up to get Allen still, but had their tank worked, they'd have been picking high enough to just take him, whiles till having all those other draft picks for more young talent rather than needing to trade up. I give them lots of credit... they had a plan to tank, when it didn't go that way they still had a plan to get their QB the following year by moving up in the draft. They have every avenue covered to make sure they could get their QB and build around that QB in the draft and by shedding cap to sign FAs in the short term while they drafted their replacements over time. I give zero credit to the previous regime for making the playoffs in 2017, most of the best players they'd added were gone by then, and now just about all of them are gone, and I don't see a lot of people saying "Wow I wish we had the 2016 roster instead".

Yes because that's the only thing i have said, so you should latch on to 1 single solitary part of my argument and blow it up like that's all I am saying.... smh... Doesn't make it a good deal... and the guys they will lose along the way with that much cap wrapped up in Thomas eventually will make it a bad deal. Missed opportunity cost for retaining other guys or signing linemen to protect their AARP QB... Hes an amazing QB don't get me wrong, but 1 weapon shouldn't take up that much of their ability to spend on offense.

Bodine is case and point of this... he was a starter with Cincy and they let him walk, he came here and didn't win the job outright ... we made him the starter then replaced him the next year. I think with Morse's history with concussions, this means Bodine gets to keep his spot on the roster. I know he doesn't have the ability to swing to OG like Feliciano or Long, but he's a better center than both of those guys, and you need to be prepared for the eventuality that Morse misses time, whether it be snaps or games, I think it's obvious this dude isn't going to be in every snap...

My point is you don't win BS because of you have great WRS... the year Brady had Moss they didn't win, and last year when Thomas almost went to the SB he still had Brees throwing to him... so it still boils down to QB play. How many SBs did Moss win again? Right 0... How about TO? Right 0... QBs win SBs in today's NFL... that's my point. I would never pay a WR the money these WRs today are getting... I see your point about wanting to pay the non-divas over the divas, but I still wouldn't pay any of them. WRs get dinged up too readily... look at AJ Green going down, Sterling Shepherd, Jamison Crowder, Corey Coleman, these were just this week... Some are a bigger deal than others, but because of this risk they just aren't good investments. JMO though... I'd rather have a group of 3 #2 WRs at $10M each than one #1 WR at $20M and then need to have price line negotiated WRs at $5M each behind him because that 1 guy is sucking up all the cap for the position.

There have been tons of studies with regards to "soft helmets" rather than the hard helmets they currently use... Kelsos was a "soft helmet" where ofcourse it was rigid but it had give, as well, allowing the helmet to absorb some of the impact rather than just having the padding hold the helmet in place and allow the brain to still take the impact and be shaken up. I posted an article on Billievers like 2 years ago where the company that manufactured them showed through their studies that the "Soft Helmets" reduced impact to the brain something like 60% better than standard helmets utilizing the same style impacts in simulated contact. However people (trainers, coaches, players etc.) don't accept them because they aren't the norm, and players hate them because they look funny... If everyone had them, they may look goofy year 1, but by year 2 they'd be the norm an no one would look back, just like changing from leather to plastic. Something needs to be done about this from an equipment standpoint, and the sad truth is better options are out there but no one is using them. Hell if i were an NFL player and it were proven I'd pay the fine to not wear NFL gear and wear that helmet instead.

Looks like Bodine is safe to make this team... I don't see a world where they want Spencer Long at C for an extended period... his natural position is OG. Feliciano is also more of a spot duty guy... they need to keep Bodine now IMHO.

Honestly, you may be right, Allen and Edmunds may not pan out... will you feel good watching those guys fail, and with them this franchise just so you can pat yourself on the fanny and say "See see I told you so"? So they keep Watkins and Darby... Watkins has a middling season, and they let him walk in free agency anyways, Darby was hurt that year with Philly so he likely would've been hurt here too (freak injury so could happen anywhere)... so instead of having the draft picks which were used to go up and get Allen and Edmunds, instead we just have a FA WR who walks, and an injured CB who wouldn't have been available even as much as EJ Gaines was for us in 2017. So fast forward to the draft... the only way we get to draft Allen would be giving up both our 1sts for him since we wouldn't have that extra 3rd or 2nd... we gave up our 1st (#12) and both seconds for Allen... So if you don't have both of those, you end up giving up both firsts instead. So now you're paying an even higher premium for Allen AND You don't get Edmunds at all... How is your scenario better than what they did? I mean seriously answer that... how is dumping a WR you weren't going to re-sign anyways, and moving a CB to add draft picks to ENSURE you get your franchise QB in the draft a bad move? If you don't have a QB in this league you have NOTHING! TT was not the guy, so we moved a guy on borrowed time (Watkins) and a great CB in Darby but someone we already replaced in the draft to enable us to have enough ammunition to get a franchise QB.... We still would've moved up for Allen regardless in the 2018 draft, but had we not made that move, we would never have been able to get up for him and Edmunds... we likely would've had to give up both 1sts for Allen instead... Making the moves they did to clear cap from guys like Cordy Glenn, who Cincy moved to OG until their rookie LT got hurt, Watkins, who LA didn't retain just like the Bills wouldn't have, Dareus, who everyone admitted needed a change of scenery as he stopped trying here... the only piece we lost that was a solid player who'd still be here is Darby, but we've replaced him pretty nicely as it is. I honestly don't know where you're deciding removing these guys didn't make us better... #2 Defense int he NFL last year... didn't seem to miss Darby or Dareus. Sure we could use Watkins, BUT HE WASN'T GOING TO BE RE-SIGNED HERE ANWYAYS!!!! You say we have no one worth giving big contracts to, I entirely disagree, but we have the benefit of NOT HAVING TO. That's a good thing... we have a good young football team with talent on rookie contracts. It's a good thing when you aren't stuck paying people boat loads of money. And we aren't hamstrung by deals for the next 5-6 years... we have flexibility so if some of these young guys don't pan out we still CAN sign FAs if necessary. If Murphy isn't as good as they signed him to be, they will likely opt out of this 3rd year of his TEAM FRIENDLY deal, with a cap hit of just $1.75M in 2020 and savings of $7.2M for 2020 which will be reallocated to signing someone else in FA. That's the beauty of how they're doing business versus handing out money like a broken slot machine and praying guys pan out because you're stuck with them for 5 years.

I bet AB demands a pay bump next off-season. OBJ I think will wait it out for a bit before complaining. He's a Diva for sure, but he's younger and if he waits 1-2 years before demanding more money someone else will get paid more than Thomas and he can cash in bigger.... Brown is over 30, he doesnt have a lot of years left to sit around and wait to demand more... All of these arguments are silly considering how much they're being paid already, but I could definitely see them demanding more in the next 1-2 years respectively.

yeah it's definitely something the Bills haven't done, but ignoring it for 2 decades and kicking the can down the road by constantly restructuring is how you get into the trouble we were in. Making the moves Beane made IMO were entirely necessary to wash away mismanagement of the past and put us on a path of proper judicious management. I know people won't necessarily agree, but that's how I feel.

Yeah, QBs make the WR, not vice versa... we've seen that with guys like AJ Green, Julio Jones, Megatron.... the list goes on of GREAT WRs who've never won a SB... Paying this kind of money to a WR who is largely a product of playing with Brees, as you pointed out, is a mistake... I mean

The Bills set out to rebuild by cutting the fat... removed bloated contracts with under performing players. Then this year they decided to be "Judicious"... it has been fantastic management of the cap, and the fact of the matter is that the Bills have needed to do a purge of contracts and players for decades and hit the "reset" button on this thing but no one coming in had the courage, or the green light to do so. Hitting that reset button usually means being TERRIBLE right out of the gate... and in 2017, I think that's what they were prepared for. But because of luck, and a team that overachieved, they snuck into the playoffs. That actually cost us a bit because we needed to spend extra resources to go up for Allen... regardless though it was the start of the rebuild but gave people a lot of hope and gave McBeane the rope to bottom out a bit in 2018 with all that dead cap coming home to roost. Now we are coming out of that dark age of big bloated contracts, and we are looking at plenty of space moving forward to ORGANICALLY grow our roster through the draft and keep our own guys. In 2019 just as in 2018 and 2017 the Bills have been adding Free Agents to 1 year or multi-year TEAM FRIENDLY contracts. It's again fantastic cap management. They can get out from under just about every contract they signed this year for minimal cap penalties. Morse, Beasley, and Brown are the only 3 that would cost us to move on from, the rest are deals that we can be out of immediately or by 2020 if we want to opt out. It's tough because we will still have lots of turn over in 2020 as we let some of the guys added this year go, but it gives us time to figure out who want long term... guys like Jordan Phillips, Spain, Long, Nsekhe, Felicano, Kevin Johnson, EJ Gaines all are in deals that are short term and allow us to evaluate these guys and get out from under them if necessary. Very refreshing to see a team properly manage the cap and the players we bring in. In 2020 we're projected to have $49M in cap space, that will probably go up with some of our cuts we will be making of vets signed this year who don't make the team. That opens us up to extending some of the affore mentioned players as we see fit, and maybe adding one or two FAs to help us in the short term. But the way they've build this team, it's pretty obvious they aren't looking for "Splash" FAs, they want to keep their own. I want to see another "Judicious" off-season in 2020 and hold money to be able to retain the likes of Poyer, White, Hyde & Milano who are going to be the first of the McBeane building blocks to come up for new contracts in 2021 and 2022.

This is CRAZY... no skill position player is worth this kind of money, PERIOD! No WR and no RB.. they only can impact the game during plays when the ball is in their hands... QBs are the only players worth this kind of contract because the ball is ALWAYS in their hands. This incredibly insane spiral of contracts for top end guys just blows my mind. Such a large percentage of your cap wrapped up in just 1 person... Again, QB is the only position worth that kind of percentage of the cap.

LikeI've>>>> EJ>>>>>You>>>>>Uncle Rico>>>>Peterman

Peterman was an unmitigated disaster when in game action, HISTORICALLY bad.... However, in shorts during Mini Camp, TC, and then in fake games for preseason, he didn't look nearly as bad. I always wanted the guy cut after his disaster in 2017, let alone being the starter in 2018... it was a joke, HOWEVER people conveniently forget that he actually didn't look terrible. I think we all thought he would meltdown, and he did, but it was always possible he didn't as well. Sooo fast forward to now, he's in shorts and camp, when he looked good for us. Stands to reason he'd look good for the Raiders too.

My guess is he isn't going to get tons of reps, which is the norm with vets, and it was the norm with Shady in the past. But this year because people are following this thinking some big move will be made, every time hes not in there people are going to go all chicken little about it... but in the end Shady will still be the #1 guy come week 1 and be fine. Not amazing, just fine. I would LOVE it if Singletary makes it a real debate, but even if he blows it up in preseason, that's against seconds and thirds, it wouldn't be enough to unseat Shady. Long story short, Shady is fine, he's a vet who will likely get limited reps to protect him from injury and knowing he gets what he needs to do to be ready for the season. Over under is what, 15 carries all preseason? I take he under.

My list of guys who are most likely to be dealt (not saying all will, just the most likely candidates): 1) Russell Bodine - as was pointed out a few times in this thread, this guy has been a starting Center for many years in this league, and regardless of his degrees of success, he finds himself as a #2 here without the same flexibility the other backup players have. As was also said, teams to silly things when they lose a player in TC... if a starting center goes down, I think the Bills will be a teams first call knowing we have 2 guys here who could start for a team, and obviously Morse is off the market so Bodine becomes a prime trade candidate. I don't think he'd garner much but the Bills only have 6 picks in 2020, and we've seen Beane likes to stockpile, so he's gonna be open for business wheeling and dealing. While Bodine is my #1 trade candidate, he'd also be my #1 surprise vet cut candidate. The reason I say this is I think he would be cut earlier than most would expect out or respect to him as a vet. Cut him after the second pre-season game but before all the other teams dump FAs onto the market. It would be a classy move to give him time to be able to latch on to another team rather before the flood of other cuts come out. Beane and McDermott have worked hard to treat players right, I could see them doing this if they are 100% sure he won't be here, and they can't get a deal done by then. 2) Shaq Lawson - I know I know, this has been floated and floated for a long time, but I think if Murphy can impress that he is 100% full go this year, they will be inclined to make a move with Shaq to a team looking to rejuvenate his career and needy of DL help. He's on a solid 1 year prove it deal, which is ideal for us, but it's also ideal for someone willing to trade for him. I don't think he'd come cheap, I think they'd need at least a 3rd to move him, but where he is in the pecking order and the fact that he's proven to be an edge setter but not a pass rushing DE, makes him much more expendable. Keep an eye on teams looking to add a DE, and the battle between Murphy and Shaq... 3) Ray Ray/McKenzie/Foster - I could see any of these guys go.... I think the Bills are set with their top 3 as Brown, Beasley, and Jones with Andre Roberts the likely #6WR who makes it for special teams... so you end up with just 2 WR spots left for the rest of the guys on the roster. The Bills brought in Duke Williams and after that said they weren't worried about WR in the draft because they felt he could fill that need for them... then add in how much they valued David Sills, and I think you see the guys they WANT to make the team. So you are left with those guys as the top 5 they want to keep, with the likes of Foster, Ray Ray and McKenzie making it a harder decision... Foster was a great surprise last year, which give him the most value out of the 3, and most likely trade target for any team looking to get better. However he didn't show much diversity in skill set, and I think his development in that area over the next few weeks is going to be the determining factor for him being on the block or not. Also how Sills and WIlliams produce will matter as well... but Sills and WIlliams are the big bodied WRs who would be redzone threats and physical threats which the rest of the roster lacks, so in a diverse WR room, those guys get some edge. 4) EJ Gaines/Kevin Johnson - The Bills right now are blessed to have 3 CBs who COULD lock up the #2 CB spot... Beane did an amazing job adding Johnson and Gaines on prove it deals, both are hightly athletic players who have some great numbers AT TIMES and WHEN HEALTHY on their resumes. But the lack of consistency or health is the issue for these guys. Plus both of them are going up against incumbent Levi Wallace who isn't going to make it easy for one of them to unseat him. One would naturally slide over to the slot, however we also have that spot locked up with Taron Johnson. So we have 3 starting CBs pretty well set, and 2 VERY good CBs on 1 year prove it team friendly deals who are CB2 caliber. Not a bad situation at all! Now the Bills could go into 2019 with all these guys and be 100% sure they have amazing depth at CB all season. I would be perfectly fine with that, however I think they will look at their gluttony of CB talent and realize there is some great value in moving Gaines or Johnson to a team that may lose someone in pre-season and add some picks for 2020, as they are very unlikely to keep Gaines and Johnson in 2020. Get something now rather than letting them walk later for free... or worse cut them later and get nothing. 5) LaAdrian Waddle/Vlad Ducasse - These guys have VERY little value, but if someone wanted them I think they could be had for a conditional 6th... in O-Line Depth that may be worth it to a team that loses a guy or two.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Nothing jumps out to me. Appears to be no bracing, no movement abnormalities, no compensations. May get more info from running assessment or other specific drills. <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Bills?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#Bills</a> <a href="https://t.co/mIv9GBs4rP">https://t.co/mIv9GBs4rP</a></p>&mdash; Banged Up Bills (@BangedUpBills) <a href="https://twitter.com/BangedUpBills/status/1156209063581159429?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">July 30, 2019</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script> hmmm that didn't work.... tips on embedding tweets?

EJ Breaks his knee Orton Leads Bills To Playoffs Then He Retires

The wife and I did the same thing 3 years ago... and we had out wedding party come out to NFL Primetime: Link is to the song, not a video of our entrance.... I don't have that on this computer to share...