MR8

That's why there is no loyalty between teams and players anymore. "The Business of Football" has changed it significantly as the old guard of owners rotated out and new owners rotated in who were 100% about the money and not about "love of the game"... Ralph floated a no interest loan to the Raiders to help the make payroll back int he 1980s... that kind of stuff doesn't happen anymore. If a team didn't have the money to make payroll they'd shame that team into leaving that city and finding new ways to "maximize profits"... The league has changed, and the players have had to change as well... they're selfish, and they need to be, because the teams don't give a ***** about them... they need to get theirs while the getting is good, because there are a thousand college football players coming out of college every year looking to replace them, plus how many thousands of others in the NFL or other leagues looking for that shot too... If you can get paid... GET PAID! otherwise you may miss the boat and never have a shot again.

I've had numerous interactions with Moorman and found him to be nothing but positive, kind, and supportive of local causes. He donated both money and memrobilia to different groups I was part of without asking for anything in return, he was quick to reply, gave me his personal cell number for questions, and was wonderful to work with. Not sure where this comes from, but MR8 stands for my user name MoormanRules8 on the old defunct BBMB... the dude was a great ambassador for Buffalo as a player, and has never been anything but a good kind person in all the personal and public interaction I've had with him...

Yeah it's definitely cold but they have limited resources across the board with coaches, trainers, and time, they need to put their effort into battles they can win, and when a guy falls way behind with an injury, the sad truth is he's of no use to them and is just sucking up time and resources they need for guys who can play... So Cut him a check and tell him we'll circle back when he's healthy, hopefully something can be done at that point.

Camp Bodies... just like Asiata was... keep churning the bottom of that roster Beane! This kid is a candidate for the PS if he plays well... no way he makes the 53 man roster, but he could be valuable as a developmental project on the PS. Who knows... he also could get cut tomorrow in favor of "Insert any OG name here"...

Yeah that sounds about right. Honestly I don't really care about Sirles, I don't think he was good enough for us to get up in a twist about... we have a bunch of guys on this roster as good or better, some of whom we are going to need to cut when we go down to the final 53...

It depends on the terms of the injury settlement... https://nationalfootballpost.com/what-is-an-injury-settlement/

Lol I'm a Millennial too man I was just messing with ya

Maybe Kroft is next? .... stirs pot....

I think as fans our sympathy for the player is implied, but how it impacts the team is more important to us personally as we are invested in the team and the team's success... not that individual players ability to get back on the field. Especially a guy who hasn't been here very long. No one wants him to be hurt, and I think everyone wants whats best for his long term health, but if he walked away tomorrow to retire, we still have season and we still need to worry about that season. For me the only time fans really get invested in injuries and the player is cases like Kevin Everett when it's life and death, and no freaking joke... then people pull together about the player. But for most injuries its like "Ah *****, hope he's okay... so what are the Bills gonna do to replace him?" Because the next game is where we need to look...

The cash cow for the NFL is TV rights it hasn't been money taken in from the gate for a long time. That money ain't nothing, but TV contracts and advertising is where their money comes from. The NFL is smart, they have their CBA negotiations followed by the TV Contract negotiations so they know how to structure the TV negotiations based on the CBA... allows for creative accounting... I digress... the next big cash cow for the NFL Is going to be streaming availability of games on major services versus network TV. The NFL isn't stupid enough to end broadcast TV, which is the golden goose for them because it essentially brings games in to peoples homes for free allowing them to watch a limited amount of their "Content" free and stirring up demand for more. However as more people cut the cord and move to streaming services, and the NFL doesn't have a dedicated contractual streaming service, that's where the big money is going to be in their next round of negotiations. Also Sunday Ticket is also going to lose its exclusive rights with DirecTV... Do they sell streaming rights along with broadcast rights so companies like CBS, NBC, ESPN carry those games on their PAID streaming services? Does the NFL Create their own? Does the NFL part it out and include services like Hulu, Netflix, Prime? They've experimented with all the above over the past few years in preparation of how they want to tackle it going forward and how they can make the most money with it going forward.... the NFL is the best and squeezing a nickle until the buffalo poops... so I guarantee you they're doing EXTENSIVE studies into the best way to optimize their product on streaming... Remember they will still have games on broadcast so people can see local games, streaming would be a separate line item of revenue for them... Also all the content providers like ABC, NBC, CBS, Hulu, Disney+, Prime, Netflix, all of them are buying up content.... the NFL has thousands of hours of game footage, interviews, etc... they can sell all of that to streaming services so customers have the ability to consume that content.... the NFL makes a mint and it's up to the streaming services to figure out what they want to charge the customer to view it... How much more would you pay to get every game on your Hulu Subscription you already have? It's a very interesting wrinkle that could be an insanely big cash in for the NFL coming up... So while you're right, the gate will probably decrease, the NFL doesn't care about that... their money comes from elsewhere, they just need enough people in the lower bowls to look full for TV... and even that can be cleaned up now a days with CGI.

Except Tom Brady.... dead at 47 sounds good... but that mean's he'll probably die in the endzone on a QB Sneak...

I understand that man, but the point I am making still stands... I guarantee you're right, when he signed the deal he had nothing in his mind about walking away from football. All I am saying is that can change VERY quickly and frankly that's okay. I mean it sucks for the Bills, but he's gotta make the decision that's best for him and his family.... And it's also possible he signed this deal knowing he may only get a few more years, BUT he wanted to cash in to make sure his family was taken care of, and he is gonna do his best for a few more to get as much as he can while he can. We can't pretend to know anything. So everything is fair game. Hell Jason Gildon signed with the Bills back in 2003 I think it was, he came in as a LB, moved to DE, then was released after week 2 and retired. He even admitted after the fact that he only signed the deal with Buffalo because they offered him a $2M signing bonus and he wanted the cash, and knew he didn't have a lot left in the tank and never really tried. Not saying at all that is what Morse did, I think he's 100% dedicated to being a franchise Center for the remainder of his career, however, you never know what is going through these guys minds or how it will play out. We signed Eric Wood to a massive extension and then the next year he wasn't cleared to play and was forced to retire... Wood thought he'd play out 3-4 more years but suddenly was retired. That could happen to ANYONE... That's all I'm saying.

Retire? Yall need to move out of your parents houses first!

Okay but what if he thought he was fine, but the next concussion changes his mind? Are you saying you know 100% what's going through the man's mind? Or what will be going through his mind if he gets hurt again? Did you know when we signed Asiata he was going to retire? I'm pretty sure when he signed the deal like 4 days ago he thought he was gonna play football... then changed his mind on a dime. Look the point I'm making is you don't know... I don't know... no one knows... Morse doesn't necessarily even know what will go through his mind if he gets another concussion... these things change guys minds on playing quickly... we've seen a rash of YOUNG players just suddenly walk away because they see the potential losses in quality of life after football. You can make all the tough guy talk comments you want about "football players play football and know the risks" etc... but it's being proven now with guys walking away from big contracts that money and football aren't the end all be all for these guys anymore. There certainly is love and passion for the game, but there's also an eye to quality of life after the game. That's where the risks you mention and the rewards of money, playing the game you love, glory of winning etc. get weighed out and sometimes the risks simply don't out weigh the rewards. Only he can decide that... pretending you know what he thinks is just silly, unless you're Mitch Morse and you didn't tell anyone... In which case, get your ass back to camp and stop posting on a damn message board

This entire post reads as you just wanting to talk about you... My point is the guy will leave money on the table if it's whats best for his long term health. So how much money is left on the contract is irrelevant. If you are trying to make the argument that football players love to play and play for precisely that, the love of playing, yeah I get that, and the fact that he's still playing after multiple concussions is largely an example of both that and his desire to get his big pay day he had coming... HOWEVER there is a point when your health and life outside football trumps football & money... Where that is for Morse, who knows... but it could be next year, could be 2 years, could be 10 years. All depends on how many more injuries he sustains, how his body feels, how he plays, and what He, his family & Doctors think... My point is we cant predict any of that... so feasibly he could go out week 1 take a good shot to the head, and hang em up before week 2... or he could play until he's 37. So it's a legitimate thing to discuss that he could get to a point sooner rather than later where he wants to hang em up.

To be entirely fair, if he has another concussion and his doctors think he should retire, and he thinks he should retire, he's better off walking away from $30M than playing and suffering the consequences ... it's not like he isn't set for life as it is.

I think I misinterpreted your post as you saying it's ridiculous people would even be discussing this to begin with this quickly. Not that you were saying it's ridiculous that we paid that kind of money for a guy and it's already an issue to be discussed. We're on the same page now.

The question was asked, and it's worth putting up the information so at the very least if it's being discussed, it's being discussed with the actual facts and figures rather than guess work. Honestly with a guy with his injury history, I don't think it's ever too early to discuss potential exit strategy from their contract, just in case. On another forum leading up to the draft I was advocating for the Bills to draft a Center in the 2nd or 3rd round, just in case. Worst case you have the C play OG and be a center in case of emergency... but if emergency comes, wouldn't you rather have a guy ready to go? Long can do spot duty but no one wants him to be a center long term, his grading there versus OG is starkly different. It's always worth a discussion... but I don't think anyone is beating the drum for cutting him man. But a discussion of "what if" is worth being had.... hell what if he decides it's not worth it to him to keep playing with all these injuries and retires after the year? We still need to know how that will impact us...

From OTC Current Contract (?: indicates contract trigger occuring during that year) Year Age Base Salary Prorated Bonus Roster Bonus Per Game Roster Bonus Workout Bonus Guaranteed Salary Cap Number Cap % Dead Money & Cap Savings Cut (pre-June 1)Cut (post-June 1)Trade (pre-June 1)Trade (post-June 1)RestructureExtension Total $25,100,000 $11,000,000 $5,000,000 $3,000,000 $400,000 $9,400,000 $44,187,500 2019 26 $4,400,000 $2,750,000 $3,000,000 $1,000,000 $100,000 $7,400,000 $10,937,500 5.8% $20,400,000 ($9,462,500) 2020 ? 27 $6,775,000 $2,750,000 $1,000,000 $1,000,000 $100,000 $2,000,000 $11,625,000 5.8% $10,250,000 $1,375,000 2021 28 $7,025,000 $2,750,000 $0 $500,000 $100,000 $0 $10,375,000 -- $5,500,000 $4,875,000 2022 ? 29 $6,900,000 $2,750,000 $1,000,000 $500,000 $100,000 $0 $11,250,000 -- $2,750,000 $8,500,000 Looks like we could dump him in 2020 with savings of $1.375M and he savings go up each year... but this year hes our's for sure.

IMO they thought they were going to be 3-13 in 2017, I think McDermott was prepared to tank it out HARD in that first year. Cut players, eat dead cap in 2017 and 2018, and then turn this thing around. But something happened, the stars aligned where other teams were bad too, and on top of that our team outperformed expectations and even what McDermott thought they'd do. Then in a miracle catch, the Bills got swept into the playoffs on luck, rather than being the bottom of the league team everyone, McDermott included, though't they'd be. They were shooting for a top 3 pick in the 2018 draft so they could add their QB of the future, and they collected draft picks along the way so they could rebuild the roster through the draft. However those wins that made us all so happy, hurt their draft strategy. But they were fine with it, they went so far as to add that waste of space Benji right before the deadline to make a push for the playoffs. So they embraced it, when they found themselves in the hunt. But some questionable decisions like starting Peterman were still made. I think they do deserve credit for their bold attempt to bottom out in 2017... they dumped talent for draft picks and shed salary knowing they'd eat the cap penalties in 2018 in preparation for 2019 and beyond. The thing is, it didn't work out the way they thought it would because they surprisingly won games in 2017. Something no one saw coming... which is all a part of the parody of the NFL and why tanking doesn't always work... They smartly still stockpiled draft picks, which enabled them to move up to get Allen still, but had their tank worked, they'd have been picking high enough to just take him, whiles till having all those other draft picks for more young talent rather than needing to trade up. I give them lots of credit... they had a plan to tank, when it didn't go that way they still had a plan to get their QB the following year by moving up in the draft. They have every avenue covered to make sure they could get their QB and build around that QB in the draft and by shedding cap to sign FAs in the short term while they drafted their replacements over time. I give zero credit to the previous regime for making the playoffs in 2017, most of the best players they'd added were gone by then, and now just about all of them are gone, and I don't see a lot of people saying "Wow I wish we had the 2016 roster instead".

Yes because that's the only thing i have said, so you should latch on to 1 single solitary part of my argument and blow it up like that's all I am saying.... smh... Doesn't make it a good deal... and the guys they will lose along the way with that much cap wrapped up in Thomas eventually will make it a bad deal. Missed opportunity cost for retaining other guys or signing linemen to protect their AARP QB... Hes an amazing QB don't get me wrong, but 1 weapon shouldn't take up that much of their ability to spend on offense.

Bodine is case and point of this... he was a starter with Cincy and they let him walk, he came here and didn't win the job outright ... we made him the starter then replaced him the next year. I think with Morse's history with concussions, this means Bodine gets to keep his spot on the roster. I know he doesn't have the ability to swing to OG like Feliciano or Long, but he's a better center than both of those guys, and you need to be prepared for the eventuality that Morse misses time, whether it be snaps or games, I think it's obvious this dude isn't going to be in every snap...

My point is you don't win BS because of you have great WRS... the year Brady had Moss they didn't win, and last year when Thomas almost went to the SB he still had Brees throwing to him... so it still boils down to QB play. How many SBs did Moss win again? Right 0... How about TO? Right 0... QBs win SBs in today's NFL... that's my point. I would never pay a WR the money these WRs today are getting... I see your point about wanting to pay the non-divas over the divas, but I still wouldn't pay any of them. WRs get dinged up too readily... look at AJ Green going down, Sterling Shepherd, Jamison Crowder, Corey Coleman, these were just this week... Some are a bigger deal than others, but because of this risk they just aren't good investments. JMO though... I'd rather have a group of 3 #2 WRs at $10M each than one #1 WR at $20M and then need to have price line negotiated WRs at $5M each behind him because that 1 guy is sucking up all the cap for the position.

There have been tons of studies with regards to "soft helmets" rather than the hard helmets they currently use... Kelsos was a "soft helmet" where ofcourse it was rigid but it had give, as well, allowing the helmet to absorb some of the impact rather than just having the padding hold the helmet in place and allow the brain to still take the impact and be shaken up. I posted an article on Billievers like 2 years ago where the company that manufactured them showed through their studies that the "Soft Helmets" reduced impact to the brain something like 60% better than standard helmets utilizing the same style impacts in simulated contact. However people (trainers, coaches, players etc.) don't accept them because they aren't the norm, and players hate them because they look funny... If everyone had them, they may look goofy year 1, but by year 2 they'd be the norm an no one would look back, just like changing from leather to plastic. Something needs to be done about this from an equipment standpoint, and the sad truth is better options are out there but no one is using them. Hell if i were an NFL player and it were proven I'd pay the fine to not wear NFL gear and wear that helmet instead.

Looks like Bodine is safe to make this team... I don't see a world where they want Spencer Long at C for an extended period... his natural position is OG. Feliciano is also more of a spot duty guy... they need to keep Bodine now IMHO.