Kirby Jackson

We agree. It’s more for me “adding a pretty good player that’s a less than ideal fit is better than status quo.” I don’t think he makes them worse. He isn’t near the top of the list but he does make them better. I wouldn’t even be opposed to adding 2 guys like Meyers and Shaheed. You don’t solve the number 1 receiver issue but you get a better version of everybody eats.

Tucker is an interesting, and potentially inexpensive option.

Lol, not to be that guy but Keon is from Louisiana. That probably makes him go out in the Olave deal. 🤣🤣

I don’t disagree that he primarily wins in the short and intermediate. He’s also been a very good contested catch guy. A redundant skill set that works is an upgrade from a different skill set that is ineffective. I’d rather have Shakir/Kincaid/Meyers working the short and intermediate than throwing 50/50 balls to Coleman. Again, he isn’t the perfect fit but he is a better player than what they have and shouldn’t be too expensive (I wouldn’t think). Status quo is a worse option than every single guy listed. When you have, unquestionably, a bottom 3 WR room, and maybe the worst, what’s the downside? There is no scenario where inserting Meyers in place of Coleman/Samuel/Moore makes you worse. Those guys just aren’t good or in Samuel’s case, healthy ever. I think that we all agree with that.

To be clear, Meyers is not the 1st choice (or 2nd). If he is he guy that “they can get” though, he’s 100% an upgrade. No one is advocating for him. If your options are Meyers or status quo, it’s Meyer’s WITHOUT QUESTION. The last 3 years he’s averaging like 75 catches, 900 plus yards and 6 TDs playing with bad QBs. He would instantly be he best WR in the room. Again, he isn’t a perfect fit but they are better with him than standing pat. The skill he adds, is the ability to get open.

Meyers has played almost 50/50 (50.9/48.6 according to Pro Football Focus) in his career slot vs. boundary. The other random snaps were at TE or in the backfield. The thought that he can ONLY be a slot is wrong.

I keep going back to, “does adding Meyers and subtracting Samuel/Coleman/Moore” make you better or worse? That’s a rhetorical question. Adding the best receiver on your roster makes you better. Is he ideal? No. Is he absolutely an upgrade? Yes. The Bills have backed themselves into a corner where they have to get better even if it isn’t perfect.

I’m assuming that Samuel or another receiver goes out in the deal (maybe even Coleman if they are fed up with him). It should just be a roster “swap out” with everyone getting bumped down a spot. It’s not perfect and I 100% agree it’s a bad situation. It doesn’t “solve” the problem but it does improve the situation (at least some).

I think there’s certainly truth here but we are in a unique situation. I wouldn’t say that the Bills WR room “needs upgrading.” I would say “it is a bottom 3 group in the NFL and maybe last.” The best WR on the team is Shakir. He’s a good player. He’s a top 5-10 slot option and tough after the catch. He’s maybe a top 45-50ish WR. The next best WR on the team is Josh Palmer. Is he one of the 60-70 best receivers in football? Keon is probably somewhere between 80-105. These guys we are talking about aren’t elite (with the exception of AJ Brown or Garrett Wilson and those are extreme LONG shots). Olave is probably in the 25ish range. Meyers is in the 35ish range. Shaheed is in the Shakir range but a different player. Bourne is playing like a very good WR. I think we are crazy to expect these guys to come in and dominate. At the same time, pretty much every guy we have listed is, as good, or better than our best. That isn’t overvaluing them. It’s more of an indictment on how bad the room currently is. If you put any of the names mentioned on one side, Palmer on the other and Shakir in the slot, you aren’t great there. You’re barely acceptable (sans the stars). At the same time if you have the 25th, 47th and 63rd best receivers in football (or whatever) starting, that’s a big step up from 47th, 63rd and 92nd. If you ever added 2 of them…..

Josh is having a bad year by his standards. He’s playing at a Pro Bowl level. That’s not good enough for this team to get where they want to go. That’s part of the problem though and why he gets absolved a lot. If he plays as the 5th-7th best QB the Bills are done. He has to be a top 3 player in the NFL for them to have a chance. That’s always been the fear of the “we need WRs crowd.” What happens when Josh is just really good? It’s like having a perennial MVP candidate in the NBA that’s having a down year. Joker averaged 29.6/12.7/10.2 on 57.6% shooting. If this year he goes out and averages 26.8/10.4/8.7 on 54.2% shooting he is a great player. He would be one of the best players in the world and the Nuggets would have no prayer of a championship. That’s where we are at with Josh.

“Rickey Oops” is more like it

The guy gave me the Bills at -200 before the year. That was way better than I was getting in Vegas. After week 4, I was offering buyouts. Now, he is ALL over me. The amount of gifs I’m receiving daily is crazy. 🤣🤣

That makes sense for why we aren’t seeing things eye-to-eye. Before the year I would have said 12-5 or 11-6 with a division title was the floor. We are underachieving to my floor so I’ve bumped it down to a WC and 10-7. Lol, it better be the division though because I have a sizable wager with some Dolphin fan on Twitter (he gets the field). 🤣🤣

Man, he gives off some Marrone vibes. That is a great call. His track record of success is longer. That guy is such a winner but is he ever prickly. 🤣🤣 There’s so much smoke around him and Penn St. I’m not sure if that’s a positive or negative when it comes to Terry as the owner. It probably makes him more aware of him at least. I doubt he takes Penn State’s guy. For me, Cignetti probably checks the most boxes that I want in the next HC.

So what I’m hearing is that the Bills are adding Waddle AND Olave?!?

Meyers is a good NFL receiver. He’s not perfect but he’s better than anyone on the Bills roster.

Totally reasonable. That would be my biggest hesitation but it’s not like he is 74. He could be here for the rest of Josh. That’s probably right. It feels like such a perfect fit for both sides. As an Ohio State fan I do not want him there.

To be clear, I’m lumping McDermott and Beane together. I think that the team lacks talent. That’s the part that Beane owns. I also think that 4-2, with that schedule is about as bad as they could be. They’ve played significantly worse than that. They have played 1 half of football this season to their standard, the 1st half vs. the Jets. That’s the part McDermott owns. Maybe. That’s where we disagree I guess. What is the absolute worst that you think this team could be with a healthy Josh Allen and this schedule? For me, it’s 10-7 with a WC. I’ve lowered it from the start of the year after watching how out of sync they look. I’m not worried about a coordinator that I haven’t seen succeed or fail because I’m betting on a WC and 10 wins as the floor.

I think so. With the exception of Josh, we have struggled mightily in the personnel department. That’s especially true since Schoen left. We have been a disaster in the first few rounds. The FA guys look to be just guys (or worse) and that’s been the case for a few years. The extensions this year look bad too except for Cook. Paying Bernard and Rousseau specifically feels like a mistake. They are role players. You replace role players with cheaper role players. Benford hasn’t played great this year but earned that contract. He has played at a high level. Cook is a star player. To answer the question, yes, I believe most competent personnel people could have built a roster as good as this one around Josh. I lump the whole regime together. I think it’s not this OR that. It is this AND that. I don’t trust Beane to find that guy either. There are some names floated out there that would be upgrades. I’m not sure any transforms the team but each would improve it. I’d like to think he is capable of adding a guy like that.

That’s the question. I hate the idea of a lot of these retreads in that the game seems to be changing all of the time. Sean Payton was the guy I wanted a few years ago. He would check that box. Mike McCarthy? Feels gross. There doesn’t feel like there are any viable candidates with a championship pedigree at the NFL level (maybe some coordinators). You probably have to look to college if you want someone that’s won titles. Day’s name pops up a lot but as an Ohio State fan, I don’t think he’s the guy. Kirby Smart? He’s not yet 50, won a few titles, sustained excellence and is a Saban disciple.

Not saying that. That would be “everyone is better.” I think 4-2 is the absolute floor for where this team could be. I think lots and lots of people would have them there. There are also people that would have this group at 5-1 or 6-0. It’s kind of like Brian and Joanna in Office Space with the pieces of flair. He’s the Jennifer Aniston character. He has done enough to meet the requirement but isn’t exceeding it. The ceiling of the Josh Allen era Buffalo Bills is a Super Bowl title. I believe that the floor over the last handful of years was an AFCE title most years and a WC in that one year Miami was good. A first round exit is the floor. So far, these guys have won AFCE titles and a playoff game or 2 every year. They’ve been at or slightly above the floor. They obviously haven’t played for a Super Bowl or won one. So, if by making a change that means, now you’re a WC team or get eliminated in round 1 instead of 2, so be it. I’ll take that risk in exchange for better showings vs. KC. I hope that this clears up the confusion. As an aside, this all assumes a healthy Josh Allen. If he gets hurt, all bets are off regardless of who else is healthy or calling the shots.

I am including successful coordinators and position coaches as competent. There are plenty of football minds that would accomplish what has been accomplished over the last 5 or 6 years IMO. There may be a year or 2 where they are a game or 2 worse or a game or 2 better but the delta is small. Where I stand, is we have seen this group try over and over. I’m willing to sacrifice a 13-4 season for a 12-5 season if it means being more effective vs. KC in the playoffs. I believe there is so little downside risk. I’m not even saying that there is massive upside to be had. I’m willing to take on he minimal downside risk in exchange for the potential upside. The worst case scenario is that you win the division and get bounced in round 1 or 2 instead of 2 or 3.

He used the words “piss poor” after the Patriots game. He said something to the tune of “we aren’t playing well” last Wednesday. He’s been visibly frustrated and passive aggressive while remaining diplomatic. That’s what he does. He doesn’t straight up trash people (pretty much nobody does that). When asked “what could have been better” he dances around carefully but doesn’t dispute where they are leading him. When asked the other night about the receivers not getting open, he said something to the tune of, “a perfectly thrown ball can make a guy open” or something like that. He didn’t say, “there was room.” He basically shouldered the blame. If you don’t think that he sees the problems, I’ve got a bridge for sale. Josh can’t hide his frustration in front of a microphone over the last few weeks. Imagine what he is feeling that he won’t say? To be clear, none of us are suggesting that he gets in front of a microphone and blasts everyone. We are simply suggesting, he should be in Beane’s office saying, “these guys aren’t getting open. You saw the film. Get me some help.” It’s not a threat at this point but it is exerting leverage.