Buftex

And you may be right. Stats only tell part of the story, particularly in football. To grade guys, merely on stats, is to pretend that the 10 players on the field with him have no impact on his game. How many times has a guy put up a great season, signed with another team, and disappeared?

Says the guy who started the thead!

Not being a Flutie guy, I have respect for his game. One thing that always impressed me was how careful he was with the ball, even when he was flying by the seat of his pants. No denying he had a great awareness of space, and sensed the defense very well. I remember a mad scramble he went on once (against the Cardianals IIRC, or maybe the Panthers...it was a night game) on a third and 13 play (or thereabouts) where he just seemed to know where everyone was, even though it was a broken play...he had to run arond the back field east-west a bit, seemingly going to lose some yards...then he did a sharp cut, up the seam, and just as he got back to the original line of scrimage, he chucked the ball to Thurman. TT was coming over from the opposite sid of the field...to this day, still can't figure out how Flutie knew he was there...ultimately, IIRC, Thurman was tackled just shy of the first down...but it was a great Flutie play.

Just on the basis of being Dan Marino, I am sure he could do better than Travis Henry...TH is fugly!

My distaste for Flutie stems more from his personality... it is dumb to suggest that Rob Johnson was a better QB. But, lets not over-inflate how good Flutie was either. I will admit, I despised him before he was a Bill, and was really bummed when they signed him. At that point in time, the Bills franchise was highly regarded, and signing Flutie just wreaked of a desperate publicity stunt. I was fully behind Rob Johnson, and I am not entirely convinced Fluties' behind the scenes antics didn't play some role in his failure. Flutie was not a good teammate, or, moreover, not a good guy to have backing up a young QB. And, despite all the warm and fuzzies everyone gets for Flutie, there was a time when some of his teammates (Thurman, Reed) would have preferred #11. Flutie seemed to have a case of "little man's syndrom", and sensed some fragile insecurities in Rob Johnson, and pounced on them. As somebody stated earlier in this thread, Flutie was at least as interested in being the starter as he was with what was best for the team. I have referenced this in numerous threads over the years, on this topic, but I remember going to the last game of the 1998 season, in New Orleans. It was two days after Christmas, a "meaningless" game....the Bills (or Flutie as some would say) had already clinched a playoff spot. The morning of the game (maybe it was the day before, I was too busy on Bourbon Street to pay attention at the time), the Bill announced that Rob Johnson would start the game. I was sitting about 5 rows up, behind the Bills bench. Flutie was pissed off the entire game. As you may recall, Johnson had a pretty flawless, game (maybe his best as a Bill), racked up lots of yards, big plays...it was the QB the Bills had envisioned. I still remember, Flutie sat, on his helmet, about 15 yards down field, away from his teammates, and sulked like a petulant child for the entire game. I also recall, after throwing his first TD of the game, Johnson made a point of running to Flutie first on the sideline for a high-five. Flutie gave him the cold shoulder....and so it went through the whole game. There were hundreds (maybe thousands) of Bills fans at the game...it was when Flutie-Flakes were at the height of their popularity. The Bills were wrapping up a good season, on their way to the playoffs, on Christmas weekend. The Bills pulled way ahead on the scoreboard, and then had to hold off a rally by the Saints. It was kind of a Bills party in New Orleans. And most of the Bills players, late in the game, seemed to really be enjoying the revelry with the Bills fans. It was a fun game for Bills fans in New Orleans....the players on the sideline were awesome...Bruce, Thurman, Reed, etc were all coming to the stands to sign autographs for the die-hard Bills fans on hand...lots of people screaming for Flutie to sign their cereal boxes...but Flutie was in his own world, and couldn't give a **** about anything, other than the fact that the coach asked him to ride the pines for a week. The only person that Flutie would acknowledge was Bruce. I remember Smith taking some of the cereal boxes from kids, and carrying them over to Flutie to sign for them. Flutie was just an ass... simple as that. I was always conflicted over Flutie. I pulled for him when he was in the game, and he was fun to watch at times (the run against the Jags is an all-time Bills great moment)... and please, understand when I say this that I am not implying that Johnson was better....but even when the Bills were winning with Flutie, I always felt like the Bills were winning regular season games with smoke and mirrors, it was sort of a gimmick that was only going to take the team so far. I understand the desire the Bills had to start Johnson in that Titans game. As I recall, that last season with Flutie, the chinks were starting to show in Fluties' armor. It was surely a gamble that Wade (or was it Ralph?) took, and obviously, it didn't work out. But I am not fully convinced that Flutie would have pulled out a win that fateful day in Tennessee, just as I am not convinced that Johnsons' performance was the reason they lost.

You Flutopians still kill me...after all these years....

Yes, there is that, and the growing phenomenon amongst Bills fans to declare draft picks as busts...everyone wants to be the first one to claim it.

I dunno...I believe he was 2-0 as a starter for the Bucs. He played more the role of "game manager", but they did win. Undoubtedly, the Bills experienced more success those years with Flutie starting, but I think the Bills gave up on Flutie at the right time... he really wasn't very good most of his final season in Buffalo. "Choosing" RJ over Flutie was really a financial decision as much as one based on talent. If they had kept Flutie, I seriously doubt things would be much different than they are now. They realized Flutie wasn't taking them any further, and gambled that Johnson, as the undisputed starter, might be able to elevate his game...he did show flashes...the Bills would have taken a big cap hit cutting RJ that year...not so much in the final year of his deal.

I think RJ was a better athlete than Trent Edwards...definitely had a much better arm. In the interview, interesting, they are talking about the "scrambling QB's of today", and RJ implies, sort of, that he came up as a drop-back QB, but when he got to the NFL, playing with Brunell and Flutie, who were both runners, he had to add that to his game...and, as he says, he took a lot of hits he shouldn't have taken, and just couldn't stay healthy. "I just wasn't built for that". Funny, I remember him being a pretty decent scrambler.

Gotta remember, huge QB's were the exception, rather than the norm, even back then, I know someone who knows someone who works for the Bills (fwiw), since the mid 80's. This person swears that Marv Levy, Mike Mularkey, Phil Hansen and Rob Johnson are some of the greatest guys the Bills employed during their time. Thanks for the link Wayne Fontes! Probably the last guy I ever expected to hear on Buffalo sports radio...

http://www.huffingto...nk2&pLid=263831

Actually, Scotty B was every bit as miserable as Ruff, while he was in Buffalo. His biggest contribution to Sabres culture was to run a lot of really good hockey players out of town. He was a tyrant, and didn't have near the success in Buffalo as he did in other stops in his decorated career. Lots of good regular seasons, only to be bounced early in the playoffs. If you look at the first nine years of Lindy's tenure in Buffalo, he had a tremendous run. A finals appearence, a couple of Conference Finals, a President's trophy (fwiw), two divsion titles, six playoff appearences (5 of them going beyond the first round)... Ruff's reptuation as a great hockey coach was warrented. But, lets' face it, this franchise is still living in the dark shadows of the Briere/Drury debacle. I think Ruff is a damn good coach....but maybe the Conference Finals appearence against the Caines was fools gold...they seem to be chasing something that isn't there any more...for one season, the NHL tried to cut down on the physical, trapping style that seemed to be permiating the game...and Ruff/Regier, to their credit, were ahead of the curve, and built a great team for the "new NHL". The Sabres were an elite team under the "new rules" Only problem was, the "new NHL" lasted for that one season, and started, slowly to morph back in to the "old NHL". The Reiger/Ruff were busy trying to perfect what they had, to compete in the "new NHL", while the rest of the NHL was saying "!@#$ that"...the Flyers and Devils, the epitome of rough-house (goon?) hockey managed to add a swashbuckler or two to their lineups, but they never stopped the physcial play...where the Sabres came out of that lock-out ahead of the curve, they fell back behind real quick. They baught in to the whole "new, free-wheeling NHL" head first, but the rest of the league never really seemed to buy into it as much. Losing the heart and soul of those teams (Briere, Drury, Dumont, etc) only made the slide worse..so now we have a team that (I think) has some talent, but just doesn't seem particularly great, or dominant in any facet of the game. And losing those guys left Ruff very soft (taffy-ass) roster. Goaltending is hot and cold, defense has way too many lapses, and they can't, for the last 5 or 6 years, get a goal when they need it. If the defensemen pinch in to help on offense, it normally leads to a 2-1 breakaway the other way... they have taken steps to address the physicality issue (or lack of), maybe it will work...but with this shortened season, they just can't afford to come out losing scores of games, then, in what has become typical fashion for the team, try to dig themselves out of a huge hole they have dug for themselves. There are just bad patterns developing with this team... I am not a Ruff hater, by any means...it has pained me (as much as anything like this could, at this point) to come to the conclusion that the team may be better off with a new voice in the room. I have no doubt Ruff would get hired by another team in a jiff....and I have no doubt he would have success. But, there has to be a reason why coaches sticking with any one team, in pro sports, as long as Ruff has, is the exception, rather than the rule. I am fine with giving Ruff this season, to see what he can do with this group...but if things end up where they appear to be heading (it is only six games!), Pegula has to give some serious consideration to making a change.

Can't remember who the guy was, but it was a back-up O-lineman who went to the Steelers a few seasons ago (when DJ was still coach I believe)... he wasn't a great player, never made it to any Pro-Bowls or anything, but I remember reading some article about him in Pittsburgh. He said something to the effect of "the difference between playing for the Bills and the Steelers is night and day...I feel like I am in the NFL now...everything is first rate here" Of course, take that with a grain of salt....new guy sucking up to his new team, or bashing his old team?

I wonder what is more likely to happen: Pittsburgh canning Bylsma, or the Pegula/Reiger letting Ruff go. My guess is the former... but if both moves were to happen, Bylsma would be a fine replacement...and we know how T-Pegs loves the Penguins!

"My Dinner With Andre"?

Ah...but those 7-9, 7-9, 7-9 and 3-7 years under DJ were the stuff of dreams!

In essence, I agree with what you say...but I bet coaches have more say with some franchises than others. Find it hard to fathom that Belechik doesn't have any say in who the Pats draft in the first round...but yes, ultimately, the GM makes the decision. Also, to a lesser degree, perhaps, doesn't it seem like Chan Gailey had some input with Nix, at least as far as offensive players go?

I have always taken the Monday after the Super Bowl off, a personal tradition a started in 1990. However, this year, I am out of luck. I was going to request it (I would get it), but saw that there were already a couple of people off that day...Super Bowl isn't quite as big for me as it used to be...I will watch, no doubt, but probably won't drink that much...getting old is no fun! I love having a weekday off, when everyone else is going to work...makes me feel like I am cheating death out of a day!

Wow, we had two consecutive bad head coaches, and you are mincing a few extra wins (unless I am mistaken, DJ was here 10 games longer than Gailey) to prove he was better? They both sucked, ultimately...but Gailey's teams were, at least, mildly entertaining....the Dick Jauron philosophy of playing not to lose does not make for scintillating football. Not sure why you adore DJ so much...and I wasn't really saying Gailey was great, just pointing out how awful the Jauron era was. DJ sucked all the entertainment value out of NFL football... it may be true that Jauron is a better DC, than Gailey is an OC, but that is as far as I will go. Jauron could cry all he wants, and kiss Buffalo's butt all he wants...but that wouldn't change my opinion that he was a terrible head coach. I am only using his time in Buffalo (he was a DB coach for one of the Bills 2-14 teams back in the 80's) as my measuring stick... bad football.

I think, other than Hank Bullogh and possibly Kay Stephonson, Dick Jauron was the worst Bills coach in my Bills life....go back to 1972. He may be a fine DC, but he was a terrible head coach. And, beyond all else, his Bills teams were possibly the dullest teams we have ever seen in Buffalo. I don't hate the guy, but I can't overstate what an awful head coach he was...Chan Gailey was a breath of fresh air.

Like I said, earlier in this thread, Miller has to be right near the top for giving up goals in the final seconds of periods, games and OT's... it is uncanny how often this happens. I wish I knew how to find a stat like that. It almost seems like he just closes his eyes, crosses his fingers, and hopes to god nothing bad happens... And again, not all MIllers' fault tonight...the "system" seems to be failing the Sabres. They look terrible defensively, and can't get any consistent offensive pressure...the D-men, tonight, did a better job in the offensive zone, but they gave up way too many odd-man rushes to the Leafs.

Seems like the Jets are being linked to every QB with NFL experience, who is under 40 right now. How long before they are rumored to be luring Brett Favre out of retirement?

Saw a headline (can't access) on ESPN INSIDER, suggesting that the Jets would/might (according to who?) be interested in Smith, and might be willing to trade Reevis for him. Not sure what to make of Smith. Is he the next Steve Bono?

I think Tanks' biggest moment this season came with some homophobic tweat about gay marriage. Not sure what became of Asper.

I actually think spending an abbreviated "full season" could be a good thing for Grigorenko, especially if they make the playoffs. Who knows, he may not dress for every game, but 48 games plus (hopefully) is like one really good high level training camp. The knock on Grigorenko in the draft was that he could get a bit lazy at times...perhaps that came from boredom? Heres to hoping that elevating his level of competition on a nightly basis will elevate his game! Why wait?