Wayne Cubed

Watching the play, a couple times, the DB makes a break on the ball the moment he realizes the ball is underthrown, by about 3-4 yards. You see him cut infront of Gronk at that point. Gronk just carry's-on running his route. IMO, at the point, the ball is uncatchable for Gronkowski. It is at the point where LK intiates contact. If Gronkowski would have attempted to stop to come back to the ball and Kuechly made contact with him, it would have been pass interference. It can't be defensive holding or illegal contact, because the ball is in the air. I believe that's the rule.

This is how I feel. Yea, we as Bills fans think he is doing a great job compared to last year. But if you watch or pay attention to the league, Pettine is never mentioned as the "hot" coordinator. He still has work to do here. The run game, althought better, still gives up yards in fairly large chunks. Add to that, no one here knows what his intentions are. IMO I'd say he'll be here for at least 2 years, possibly 3. It took his mentor Rex Ryan 3 years as DC at Baltimore to become a HC and that was after he received assisstant coach of the year award and the Ravens had the #2 defense. Ryan was technically with the Ravens for 10 seasons and was promoted to DC.

1.) SOS would be right, IF and thats a big bold if, they sweep Miami. 2.) Pitt has 4 divisional games remaining. They would basically have to go 3-1 in those games and the Bills would lose on a tie-breaker. Is it possible? sure anything is. But the AFCN play each other tough.

GB, should have Rodgers back by then... and it's in GB. Baltimore may play tough at home, they played them tough in Pitts. And you just never know about divisional games.

Someone pee in your Cheerios this morning?

Geno made the same play earlier and someone in the shoutbox commented that "at least Geno is throwing it up there." Then EJ does the same thing and it's he's lucky or it was a fluke. Just can't win with some fans.

And the one he caught. And how about the 10-15 yard hitch routes Manuel threw to Goodwin. Guess those go under 3 yard passes.

Good stuff Bill. About #10, spot reviews are rarely overturned. There just never enough evidence. And it's not just losing a TO, it's also losing a challenge. Which may be needed later. If he did challenge it and lose I assume most fans would haven given Marrone crap. Damned if you do and damned if you don't.

You're grasping at straws... Neither started as a rookie. Try again.

This. I'm not going to gloat and say "see I told you so" when he plays well. It was just way too early to call him a bust.

Not a great day for the running game, period. Fred has all of 27 yards.

I like it.

To the bolded, recently 2 NFL teams made the choice of paying a lot of money for a QB they saw play well in 2 games, how did that turn out? Hell, the Bills made a similar mistake not too long ago. It goes both ways really. I don't get the desire to rush to a judgement on a player, expecially rookies, these days. Is it all the access we as fans have now? Or the abilitly to say "yea, I told you so!".

This only backs up what I thought during and immediately after the game. I thought it was really odd seeing as Pitt was the 31st ranked run defense. I still think EJ had his worst game though but the running game was horrible and certainly did not help him. A rookie QB needs to lean heavily on the run game.

And I think this is what it all comes back to, not what the pundits thoughts were so much but what were fans expectations of Manuel. If you were expecting a Luck type season, then you should prepare to be disappointed. There is a reason he wasn't selected 1st overall.

How exactly do you come to that conclusion? Better for everyone involved? How the heck would putting Thad Lewis in the game be better for any of the veterans. He was just as bad in his 3 starts. What, because he threw a couple deep balls all of a sudden the Bills veterans would jump for joy? This is the way it goes with rookie QB's. They struggle, but they need to find out what kind of player he is. I'm sure every Bills veteran knew there would be up's and down's.

I don't have any problem with this idea. You should always grab a guy you think will be a star. No question. I think were I disagree with some is that I'm willing to let a player develop. Just because it's been a fad the past couple of years to start rookie QB's, doesn't mean in year 1 a team has to determine whether he'll be a legitimate player or not. Let's not forget, QB is still the toughest position to adjust to. I think some fans wear rose-colored glasses with there assessments of other rookie QB's. Russell Wilson looked pedestrian his first half the season last year and was close to being benched. Tannehill showed very, very little last season and continue's to show very little this season. RG3 although having a good season last year, is severely slumping this season. I'd say Luck is the only guy to truly establish himself and even he has off nights, like last night. I want sustained success, not a rookie QB that looks great his rookie year and that's it. IDK, if Manuel is or isn't the guy. I'm not going to let 6 games or 1 bad game make up my mind that he is. Especially seeing as he had a shortened pre-season and was out for a month during the regular season. And yea, I'm pissed they lost. They looked like crap yesterday.

Not that I don't think EJ had a bad game but I found a couple things interesting: Before the game, Joe B commented on the wind effecting both QB's throws. During the game Big Ben also made a bunch of horrible throws, so much so, that Gannon made a comment about. Said his mechanics looked fine and he wondered if the wind was having an effect on his throws. This makes me wonder about some of EJ's throws and why he/they didn't take shots down the field. Big Ben was checking down most of the game as well. Also might explain some of the inaccuracy. The run game. I was expecting a similar game plan to the one the Bills had against KC seeing as the defenses were very similar. KC isn't great at stopping the run but is a good pass defense, based on pressuring the QB. The OL didn't show up in terms of run blocking against Pittsburgh and both RB's looked horrible. The second the Bills didn't establish a running game, the game was over. A rookie QB, coming off a month of not playing there was sure to be some rust. Plus, I think the game plan was absolutely terrible. I'm not ready to write him off yet. IMO, this season was always going to be a rebuilding one. Just look around the league, rookie QB's struggle. Even second year QB's struggle. If this is EJ at his worse, it is no where near as close or bad as Geno's worst. Just look at the Bengals game.

No offense to Pettine, but the defense looked pretty bad at the beginning of the year.

He's such a master that he's coached them to the 3rd lowest sack total in the league at 13.0 sacks. Guess that blitz is really working this year huh? The Bills OL just held the league leading KC Chiefs to ZERO sacks. This defense is a shell of its former self, that is a fact.

To the bold, I've brought this up in other threads and I see you keep harping on this 39 passes and carrying the team. It's just not true. Prior to the fumble return for a TD, Tuel had attempted 23 passes and was completing well more than 50%. At that point the Bills had 35 running attempts. They were running the ball more then they were asking Tuel to throw it. Even after his pick-6, they kept running the ball. Hell, even the moron Dierdorf mentioned the Bills were still run heavy and couldn't believe the Chiefs weren't. The fumble-TD happened in the 4th qtr with about 12:50 left. The Bills were now behind, Tuel HAD to throw. But at no part prior to that and for the VAST majority of the game was he asked to "carry the team".

First, I don't really think their blitz is working a whole lot this year, considering they only have 13 sacks. They can blitz all they want, they're giving up 131 yards average running per game at 4.2 yards a carry and 12 rushing TD's. The Bills will just run it down their throat.

The Bills were up 7 BECAUSE they allowed Tuel to throw... And on any play Tuel could be picked... hell Fred or CJ could have fumbled the ball on the 1, we've certainly seen that before. We've also seen them get stuffed on consecutive plays at the 1, Cincy.

The Bills with EJ, 2-2 (I can't put that lose in Cleveland on him, game was tied when he went out and they were driving) Without EJ, 1-4 In my mind it's not close either. Yes, records aren't based soley on QB's, but to me that says a lot.

X-rays were negative. Joe B said he was standing around the locker room after the game with ice on his foot.