OldTimer1960

And how did their rookie QB look?

On this we can agree (that Manuel has to get better), but I DO expect him to get better. MOST rookies, regardless of position, get better in year two - especially if they have a good work-ethic as Manuel reportedly has. Can someone point to a more inexperienced/below average receiving crew than Manuel had last year?

Why? Is there some kind of track record of success in the past with Chandler that suggest that the Bills' inadequate coaching held him back? I don't think he had many CAREER catches before joining the Bills. Last year was certainly not his best with the Bills, but he was coming off a major injury. Still, there is NOTHING to suggest that Chandler is a star being held back by the Bills' coaching/scheme.

On defense, I agree that the young talent is developing. I am not seeing that young talent around Manuel that is developing on offense. To be clear, I think that Robert Woods will develop into a good complementary receiver. I am not sure of Goodwin or Graham doing so. I think that SJ is exactly that - a good complementary receiver. Look at what Kaepernick had in SF: Vernon Davis, Michael Crabtree, Anquan Boldin WITH a good running game and an OL comprised of multiple #1 picks. I see the potential in Kaepernick, too, but given what he had to work with, I didn't think that he was more impressive than Manuel at all.

Please help us all out here. What is YOUR definition of pocket awareness? Is that affected by the time it takes (mostly) rookie WRs to get open and the time afforded by a questionable OL? If the answer is: "he should have known after 1.5 seconds that nobody would get open and the OL couldn't protect him longer" then I *sort of* agree.....

I think that this is a very overly harsh view of Manuel. How many rookies QBs are masters at going through their progressions and pre-snap reads? How many rookie QBs have virtually an all rookie receiving corp, augmented with an average TE coming off knee surgery? I will agree that if Manuel doesn't show improvement this year, it will be a big concern. However, the same is true of Robert Woods and Marquise Goodwin. If TJ Graham isn't 100% better this year, there is a BIg hole at WR. Can the Bills count on SJ to be healthy and play well?

With all due respect, I think you are fantasizing if you think that Stevie would fetch a 2nd round pick and Byrd (as a restricted FA) would get a #1 or 2. If SJ and Byrd aren't worth "their money", why do you think any other team would pay very much to trade for them? Who is the magical "veteran" QB that would be "that good" to fill "that important of a position"? Do you really think that Roethlisberger could be had for a REASONABLE price? How can you utter Kirk Cousin's name in the same breath as Roethlisberger? Cousins for a 3rd - MAYBE, but not more.

Ugh. Smith was AWFUL, but still I wouldn't give up on him with the weapons he had. Manuel was encouraging given that he had: TJ Graham in year 2, rookie Woods, rookie Goodwin and a good-not-great Stevie Johnson (sometimes). At TE, he had Campbell coming off a major knee injury - even at his best, he is an adequate starting TE. The running game was compromised with Spiller's injury and poor LG play. Still, there is, of course questions regarding EJ's long-term outcome, but that would be true of any rookie QB - especially in that situation. The Bills have barely addressed the offense in the last 3 drafts (at least in premium rounds). Most of the draft has been pointed at improving the defense - and I think that has been done. They need to be more disciplined (and need a little help at LB), but there is a lot of talent on D. On O, the solid veterans are: Wood, Glenn, Freddie Jackson, Stevie Johnson (if not hurt) and Spiller (if not hurt). Time for an influx of talent on O, best players available on that side of the ball, unless a CAN"T MISS prospect is available on D in round 1.

I can't imagine a S in the first, even if Byrd leaves. I don't know how Watkins/Benjamin don't make your list for round 1, unless you think both will be gone. I'd be very concerned with Mosley or Zach Martin (at OG, but less so at RT) I am really not grooving on Sefarian-Jenkins at TE in round 2. Too much baggage and too many questions about effort (only based on what I've read - maybe he will do great things). I would be hard-pressed to wait on a WR/TE until round 3, but if there isn't one worth picking at 9 or in the 2nd, by all means pass on them.

Evans is big, but not very sudden (given my limited exposure to his play). it is much easier to 'win' those battles in college than in the NFL where the QB has 2-2.5 seconds to throw to someone who might not be open. Based only on what I've seen/read, I'd take Sammy Watkins or Kelvin Benjamin over Evans all day. I am not sure I'd take Evans in round 2 even.

Agreed

Cowherd is a know-nothing TV dweeb. Now, I don't know which QB will be better over the next 7 years, but I think I'd take Aaron Rodgers OR Andrew Luck ANY day.

Do you suppose that some of that rushing had to do with a marginal OL and mostly rookie/first year WRs?

In my very humble opinion, it is very risky to evaluate rookie QBs, no matter their stats. Smith and Manual suffered from a lack of experienced playmakers at TE and WR. How will they develop? I certainly don't know, but I still like everything that I've read about EJ Manual's work-ethic and intelligence.

I think that (as of now with possibly much to change), that they have to look at: WR: Watkins & Benjamin (Benjamin will go much higher than many anticipate based on size, athleticism and the p-word potential) OT: Mathews and Robinson or bust. I don't *think* that Lewan will be in the discussion at 9. LB: Mack or Barr(possibly). I think those are the main targets, with Ebron on the outside. If 2-3 QBs go early, they should have a shot at one or more of these guys.

We are on the same page. Some here who expect immediate success spawned by a rookie or two are ignoring the odds. I'll grant that Andrew Luck got his team to the playoffs in just his 2nd year - but there are VERY few players as impactful as Andrew Luck. I think the Bills have built a good foundation on Defense and put some parts in place on O last year. Best hope for significant improvement this year is growth from young players from the last 2 drafts. Yes, we hope that we'll find more good rookies this year, but likely it will take them a bit of time to hit their stride in the NFL. As an example: Cleveland's Josh Gordon had a good rookie year w 50 receptions for about 800 yards. In his second year he caught 87 passes for 1600+ yards - nearly 80% more catches and over 100% more yards in year 2! Of course that is exceptional, but it illustrates the point that a rookie year doesn't define a player often.

In my opinion, Johnson is a good player who would be even better if he had a truly dominant Wr to play with so that he wasn't getting the defense's top attention. That being said, they have to weigh whether he is worth the salary he is receiving. I am not positive of his salary or Byrd's demands, but if it came down to Byrd at $8.5M/yr or SJ13 for $7M/yr - I would think that Byrd would be the better investment. I am not dissing SJ, but Byrd is clutch.

I think that it is risky to judge players after only their rookie year. Nearly all rookies have some trouble adjusting to the NFL. Chances are good that some of the OL that struggled last season will go on to have good careers and a few will continue to struggle - but the same can be said for players at every position.

I think that Watkins is more than a little more athletic than SJ , we'll see at the combine. Further, Watkins has been extremely productive. I am not yet saying that Watkins should be their choice, but I think he should be a candidate.

Or you could get nothing from a 3rd and 4th round pick. The draft is iffy after the first round. You hope to find good players in the mid to late rounds, but there are a lot of 2nd, 3rd and 4th round picks that don't ever pan out - and that isn't limited to just the Bills. I'd rather keep Hughes than trade him for a couple of mid round picks

At this point, I am with you - though I am rarely against drafting OL and DL

In concept, I agree, but my opinion is that the picks that could be received from SF are later than I'd want to trade back to. Two late 2nd rd picks aren't enough to entice me to drop 21 spots in round 1. That is just my view

You HAVE to have a great QB like Peyton Manning to have a chance - keep drafting QBs in round 1! Maybe, just maybe defense and an adequate QB might win.

For the "it's only the QB crowd - one of the top 5 QBs of all time is getting b-slapped by a dominant D.

Looking like a Bills' Super Bowl game for Denver...