OldTimer1960

No trade up Any of the top four OTs or Beckham, Donald or Mosley

There is this bridge in Brooklyn that I'll sell you cheap. You don't need to see it or the deed... I am in agreement with John from Hemet - who are these decent starting OTs that can be had in even the 2nd round, much less the third round????

Im not seeing the comparison to Robert Woods at all. Woods is (IMHO) going to be a very good #2 WR. Beckham is faster and quicker than Woods. I'd rather have a great normal size talent than reach for a "size" WR/TE-masquerding as a WR. I have become comfortable with Odell Beckham and Zack Martin at 9. I am not in favor of trading more than this year's 3rd to move up and I'd only do that for OT Mathews, WR Evans/Watkins. My view is: don't give up the farm for Evans, Watkins, Mathews or Lewan. Stay put or trade down to get extra picks. I'd be OK to trade down for an extra 3rd if they combined the two 3rd or extra 3rd and 4th to move back up into the 2nd.

Only true if you let gravity drop the bar without controlling it. If you lower it slowly under control "lifting down" can be a struggle.

I am not a legal expert, so I don't know, but the report above and on Profootballtalk both said the arrest was on a felony charge related to drugs. If convicted of a felony, it usually means prison time (I think). Now, maybe good lawyers can get the charges reduced or dismissed, but if not, I think Dareus could be in a heap of trouble.

May increase probability of selecting Aaron Donald in round 1. Losing Dareus will be a major blow to the one strength of this team. If I understand it right, this is a felony charge - much different than a minor marijuana possession charge. I wouldn't count on having Dareus this year or in the future.

I think we are in agreement on this point. I was simply saying that it might be possible that the 4th OT is still BPA on Bills' board when pick 9 comes.

I am struggling with the "nth" player at a particular position argument. Isn't it possible that the 4th rated OT is better than the 1st rated player at other positions? Particularly if you consider talent, attitude, work ethic and the importance of a position. OT (even RT) is an important position and Martin has been considered no worse than a mid first round pick by most as far back as I can remember. Another poster elsewhere pointed out that Jim Kelly was the 3rd QB taken in that draft (behind Elway and Todd Blackledge). Dan Marino was the 6th QB taken (Tony Eason and Ken O'Brien ahead of him).

I like the idea of an OT here- I don't care that the rookie will "only" play RT. My concern is whether Zack Martin can really play RT in the NFL. If he turns out to be too short to effectively play RT, I would think it is a mistake to take him at 9 only to have to move him to OG. I know many thought that Cordy Glenn couldn't play LT and he is doing that well. Perhaps Martin could do well at RT even though many are projecting him to OG?

I think that you have to consider that the Colts were picking late most years when Polian was in charge. Picking late accomplished exactly what the draft is supposed to do - give the weaker teams first shot at the available talent. Picking at the end of round 1 is close to not really having a first round pick - picks 28+ are closer to the second round than they are the beginning of round 1. I would not completely dismiss what Polian has to say.

How do you know this? Based on everything I am reading/ hearing, Martin is going to be picked by the mid-teens. I think it is very unlikely that he will still be available "in the 20s".

He is certainly athletic and fast. I know that he is a good prospect, I just don't think he is a great prospect. I do worry about him not living up to his potential. I like the players who are described as ultra hard workers that are dedicated to being the best player that they can be and I haven't seen that written about Ebron.

I like the trade down option. I don't like the idea of Ebron. A no-block TE that hasn't demonstrated that he is a significant scoring threat in the red-zone is nothing more than a WR - and I prefer several WRs in this draft to Ebron in that capacity. If they pick Ebron, I'll hope that he pans out into a good offensive weapon, but I would rather let another team take that risk.

No player in this draft is single-handedly going to change the fortunes of the Bills (at least that will be available at 9). Without a costly trade up, the Bills will be picking from a pretty deep 2nd tier of players. It would be very nice if Mike Evans or Jake Mathews or even Lewan were available at the Bills' pick, but if not they can select from WR Beckham or Lee, OT Zack Martin, DT Aaron Donald, LB/DE Anthony Barr, LB Moseley, their pick of CBs or S or (not my favorite) TE Eric Ebron. All of these are good prospects, just a notch below the true top tier of Clowney, Watkins, Mack, Robinson, Mathews and Evans. Depending on the Bills' evaluation of these prospects, they might unfortunately have to go with a defender even though they need to help the offense. Still, a top defender to further strengthen the defense is nothing to be depressed about.

Beckham is a good player - you have to deal with it and pick someone if this scenario happens and in that scenario, Beckham is as good as most any player left. If you can trade down out of that spot, great - the next 5-7 guys are pretty equivalent in terms of talent - so that would make it hard to trade out of this pick. I would consider defense or even Zach Martin in this scenario, but Beckham wouldn't be a big stretch there.

Just my opinion, but: 1. Johnny Manziel - I like his competitveness and elusiveness and don't have a problem with his arm strength - he could be very good, but he'll have to drastically change his game in the NFL. Another poster said he lobs too many passes up for grabs - I agree and those bad decisions will kill him in the NFL. I am also concerned about his maturity - he is very young coming into the league - Russell Wilson by contrast was over-aged. 2. Eric Ebron - certainly has the athletic skills to be good and some of my favorite draft analysts really like him, but he is also very young, doesn't block much and hasn't shown that he is a red-zone threat with only 8 career TDs in 3 years. Without blocking, he is basically a big WR - while he has size, comparing him to WRs his speed isn't that great. I am no Kelvin Benjamin fan, but he scored more TDs in the last 5 GAMES this year than Ebron did in 3 YEARS. 3. Kelvin Benjamin - I just said he was productive scoring TDs, but he really had only 1 year of production - very young - allegedly told a coach who came to work him out that he was too tired to workout. 4. Teddy Bridgewater - no doubt was an outstanding college QB, but smallish size, not special arm strength and speed/elusiveness leave me wondering if he will be good in the NFL - rooting for him, but not betting on him. 5. Bradley Roby - recent arrest, average season this past year leave me cold on him. On the flip side, I think that Aaron Donald will be a bargain in the middle of the first as teams shy away early because he is undersized. I also think Marqise Lee is going to outplay his draft position. He was SO productive and dominant when healthy.

I don't know about Chrichton - what I've read sounds an awful lot like Chris Kelsay. Now to be clear, I always thought Kelsay was pretty good, but I know I was in the minority.

Who? I like Robert Woods a lot, but Lee was the alpha player at USC when they were both there. I think SJ13 is good, but not at Lee's level if Lee is healthy. Williams is a bigger WR - maybe not Mike Evans big, but big none-the-less. I like Marqise Goodwin very much, but at his size he is best as a 3rd/4th receiver that is the deep threat. I would be VERY leery of becoming fixated on getting a big WR like Evans/benjamin

I agree, Lee is dynamic when healthy. Him (or Beckham or Cooks) plus an extra second rounder would be great IMHO. I disagree with the idea that he isn't the type of player the Bills need. He is very good - hence fills a need. I don't care if he isn't 6''5" as long as he gets open often and catches well.

I don't understand the premise of your post. Are you saying that nfl.com's list represented true value and that 6 of their top 30 fell outside the first round that some teams got first round value in round 2?

Thank you. This irrational belief that rookie QBs (or any other position) should walk int the NFL and immediately be great is way too pervasive and, I believe, is fueled by the (far too many) sports talk hosts and reporters who love to have something to generate discussion. I don't know if EJ Manuel will be a good NFL QB in the long-run or not, but I am confident that he has at least a shot at becoming a good one. I think that being impatient and continuing to draft QBs high "until you find one" is not a recipe for success. Drafting a QB high every year pretty much guarantees that you won't find out much about any of them as there won't be enough opportunity for any of them to improve..

Yes, first round picks in 2099 and 3015

At the end of the day, the right answer (as best anyone can tell on draft day), this depends entirely on whether they thing who they can get in a trade up is better than who they think they can get by holding onto their current picks or with the picks they'd acquire by trading down. My $.02 worth is as follows: 1. If they think that Clowney is another Bruce Smith or Watkins is another Larry Fitzgerald, then trading up makes sense - even if it costs next year's #1. 2. If they think that staying put and grabbing Mike Evans/Eric Ebron would provide a significant upgrade in receiving options - AND they think they can get a good OT in round 2, then staying put makes sense in my mind. 3. If they think that trading back allows them to get 3 good starters at 3 of: WR/TE, OT, OG, DE, S, ILB then I think this would be the best option. IMHO, this draft should be about finding the best players possible regardless of position, but with a slight emphasis on offense. I do think that the OL would benefit from an upgrade at RT, but that depends on whether they think Pears can play better (was he hurt last year?) and whether any of the available players are any better. They really could use a dynamic receiving option to allow Woods, Goodwin, Johnson and Williams to play off of. Scott Chandler is an adequate receiver at TE, is Ebron much better? We all love Sammy Watkins and Mike Evans, but at what price and are they that much better than someone the Bills might be able to get in round 2 (Jason Mathews, Sefarian-Jenkins, Benjamin, Robinson, Lattimore, Landry, etc... I think that improving the pass blocking and run blocking in round 1 with a receiving option in round 2 would help EJ Manuel maximize his talent more than Watkins/Evans/Ebron would. Thoughts, dissenting opinions???

Damn! Thought this thread had something to do with electronic lingerie...

Thank you