OldTimer1960

That is a good idea, but this team is awful at executing screens. Even when blockers get out in front of the receiver, they usually miss their blocks. That has been frustratingly true of OL, TEs and other WRs attempting to block on screen plays.

Sadly, hope must be placed on Orton's passing because there is NO run game with this OL.

OL is SOO BAD. No business going for it on 4th and short with this terrible line.

They scored 13 stinking points. They've averaged 15 points in their last two HOME games. Look, I am not saying it is all Orton's fault, but while they are moving the ball better than earlier this season, they are still not scoring anywhere near enough. No, it isn't all Orton's fault - just as it wasn't all Manuel's fault...

You say this in comparison to Orton? Have a look at Orton's first few year's in the league as a starter... His stats werent even as good as Manuel's. Now, to be clear I don't know if Manuel will ever become a good starting QB, but at least he *might*. Orton, on the other hand, is not going to suddenly improve after 9 years in the NFL. I am not suggesting that they bench Orton quite yet, but once this team falls out of playoff contention then unless Manuel has looked horrible in practice, he should get another shot.

...and score 13 points at home in a must-win game. ...and score 17 lousy points at home against a weak Minnesota team. Let's not pretend that they were t extremely lucky to beat Detroit and VERY lucky to pull out a win Vs Minn. in both cases, the defense won the game

Question why you say that Orton gives them a better chance to win. How many points per game were the Bills averaging eith Manuel playing vs their points per game under Orton? Take out the Jets' implosion and it is pretty darned close - 12 game starter vs 9 year vet. How foolish does WGR's discussion about giving Orton an extension look?

Because they scored 13 points at home. That isn't enough to win in the NFL

Aside from 43 points given to the Bills' offense by 6 Jets turnovers, Kyle Orton has led the Bills to 17, 22, 17 and 13 points. But for an epic meltdown by the Lions' K and a miracle catch by Chris Hogan to pull out a home win against a weak Vikings team, Orton's record as a starter would be 1-4. He is clearly not a long-term answer at QB, in spite of what some here have suggested. Heck, another loss at Miami on Thursday and it might be time to go back to Manuel. We know what Orton is after 9 years in the NFL - and that isn't good enough to be a playoff contender even with a very good defense. I know that Manuel wasn't playing well, but he is still young enough to at least *hope* that he could improve.

Let's remember that the offense scored just 17 points and gave away 7 - a net offensive output of 10 points. I am happy that they one and I'll even acknowledge that Orton just threw some passes that Manuel shied away from even attempting, but if it weren't for a miraculous catch by Watkins, nobody would be talking about Orton as an answer.

AWFUL no-call on pass interference there. They even threw the flag and then picked it up! How on earth can that happen????

Looking like a good call by the OP. Bills are clearly letting it loose - especially on O.

Here I thought that the conventional wisdom was that EJ was holding this offense back. I am thinking that was not totally the case...

Man, I guess it really was all EJ Manuel's fault. This offense is DYNAMIC with Kyle Orton playing QB.

I still holdout some hope that with better OL play that.EJ could play well. It isn't fashionable to acknowledge in the media or on this board, but a mixture of a young QB, young WRs, a weak OL, and an inexperienced Offensive Coordinator is most often going to look about like what we've seen. Poor OL play affects QB play - go ask Tom Brady how he is enjoying playing under pressure from pass rushers. If the OL doesn't play better, Kyle Orton won't have much better luck than EJ had.

Thank you. Why rush to judgement and write him off so early? So bitter people can say they were right? Some other. Bills who people wanted to run out of town include: Aaron Williams and Leodis McKelvin from the current team, Eric Moulds - one of the best WRs they ever had, Pat Williams barely played for his first few years, Steve Tasker had been cut before he got here....

I don't disagree that EJ earned his way to the bench, but I don't think that JW's all22 review should be the basis of any argument. Without reading what JW wrote, how exactly did he confirm what Manuel's read was on any play? Further, how many great NFL QBs, much less young QBs could make even basic reads and throws in the face of constant pressure? I guess that we should all disregard how bad Tom Brady looked last night (and so far this season) because he has been under big pressure. Likewise, I remember Peyton Manning looking lost in the Super Bowl under pressure. It isn't as cut and dried as many want to argue. Offense is a system that depends on: 1. QB makes fast/correct reads and makes accurate throws 2. OL provides time to read defense and get set to make throws, allows WR to run full routes and look for ball 3. WR run proper routes and make correct sight adjustments / catch passes that are within their catch radius - I never hear Calvin Johnson complain that he had to jump or lay-out for a pass. 4. Runs are productive enough to keep the defense off-balance. 5. Avoid penalties and negative plays to stay in manageable down and distance situations. AGAIN FOR EMPHASIS: I am not arguing that EJ should still be starting at this point. However, to lay all the blame at his feet and pretend that all will be well now that the immortal Kyle Orton is starting is a joke - at least in my opinion.

You are right - and neither would Kyle Orton

And we must be delusional to be excited over Chad Henne- err Ryan Fitzpatrick, I mean Kyle Orton

Great, go into 2015 with Kyle Orton - sign me up for my season tix now... The optimism for this move is too much for me.

Have you even seen Orton play? Curb your enthusiasm or be prepared to be let down.

+100 The next time that they block JJWatt will be the first. Note that I am not deflecting blame from EJ, just agreeing that ANY QB that is under constant pressure isn't going to play well. If you don't think so, ask Peyton Manning how things went in the last Super Bowl.

I wanted Manuel to show enough progress to justify that he get this year to learn and develop, however even I could see that he shouldn't be playing. Still, turning to Orton is no great consolation prize. He is a nine year vet who is a career 58% passer who has a slightly positive TD to INT ratio. I expect that he might look good for a game or two, but it will be a mirage - he is a journeyman QB. The Bills will still be at a disadvantage at QB vs 25 or more other teams a that is, Orton might be as good or better than maybe a few other starting QBs.

I understand the frustration with Manuel, believe me I do. However, Manuel still is a bit of an unknown who might have upside. Orton has proven to be a journeyman QB and isn't suddenly going to become a good enough QB to get this team to the playoffs and make a serious run. If this team wanted a veteran who had already reached his ceiling who *might* have been good enough to get the team to the playoffs, then they should have traded for Alex Smith when he was available. Face it, outstanding QBs are hard to find. Even those drafted high in the first round are very hit or miss. Might as well ride with the guy (Manuel) who obviously has physical talent (size, speed, strength, and arm strength) and a good work-ethic to see if he can pull it together. You know for sure what you have with Orton and it isn't good enough in the long-run to get the team past the first round of the playoffs - and that is a BIG if that they could even get that far. Remember, even with Orton in, you still have a very porous OL, a bunch of very inexperienced WRs, an OK TE and an Offensive Coordinator who is still trying to find his way in the NFL.

Manuel and the OL is a bad combination