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Without intonation it is impossible to know. Sort of like text messaging and having no idea how the comment was meant. The game plan didn't call for it though as a statement - with as many people lamenting that there should have been more run plays called wouldn't that fall in line with wrs not being targeted? It seemed that short pass plays designed to churn yards and running plays to keep the clock moving was the game plan in the first half. Freddy got an awful lot of looks in the first half. So which is it? Are we mad that the game plan should have been more focused on getting the wrs the ball early or are we mad that they didn't run enough early? It can't be both.

There is certainly room for protest but I have never or heard of one happening successfully. Especially in HS sports where there is a lack of video evidence for anything. I can't imagine this getting overturned. It certainly appears to be the wrong application of the rule so it will be interesting to see if it does indeed get reversed.

You have no idea how intricate these rule books are though. There is a test for every official to take every year that is not a walk in the park. As for the pocket rule book comment could you imagine a ref anywhere saying hold on let me check the rule book? That is a terrible idea. Rulebooks are not allowed on the field or to be brought to an official at any time. I keep mine in my car but that is so after the game if I had a question about enforcement I can double check if I was right or not. More often than not I am but *gasp* sometimes I make the wrong call!

To the bolded: so what do you consider teams that went 9-7 and then had 10 straight losing seasons?? Being .500 2 years ago and 10 years ago makes a world of difference. Take a look at Jeff Fisher and the Rams. Even with the benefit of the RG3 trade and multiple extra first round picks they still have not been able to get over .500 and he has had 3 years to turn it around. Chiefs are actually a decent example. So we have 1 team out of 32 in the last how many years. Can you see how this is the exception and not the norm? All I'm saying here is we need to give Marrone a fair shake. 2 years with how sorry this franchise was for 14 years before he got here isn't that imo. Perhaps the offensive line being ranked so low has something to do with that? Perhaps the team being down to the third and fourth string rb have something to do with. I also don't understand how you talk about Orton sucking and them failing because of it and then saying that no qb on earth could succeed. Doesn't it make sense that a better qb would do better? This place would have exploded if no qb was drafted when ej was. If the Bills tried to go into another season and sell Fitz as the starter everyone would have been up in arms. I think your last line speaks exactly to what the team was trying to do in drafting Manuel the results just aren't in yet. Just like they aren't in with Manziel yet....

Harbaugh - took over a team that went 8-8 2 years before he took them over. Arians - took over a team that also was 8-8 2 years before he took them over, a team that had been to the super bowl 5 years before he took them over and was a playoff team 4 years before he took them over. Again neither of these situations are even close to the Buffalo Bills and how bad they have been. Marrone - took over a team that finished last in their division 6 straight years before he took over (let that sink in), a team that hadn't been at least 8-8 for 10 years before he took them over. Certainly you can see the difference in these situations?

Yeah I don't think many people do. I started a thread about it a while back but I have no idea how to search the archives...

As a fan I have no say in what I get from this team unfortunately I will back them whether the go 0-16 or 19-0. We all have settled for meh. You have 16,000 posts on this board for crying out loud. You have been a member since 2002 and still post regularly through all of those dark times! You have settled for meh! All I am trying to say is for the first time in forever we have something to be excited about. We have someone to back that isn't the laughingstock of the league anymore. Your non-Bills fans friends have probably even said some positive things about them for the first time in a long time. Be happy about that instead of nit picking every tiny little thing. We are Bills fans we don't deserve nice things! (or at least it has felt that way for quite some time) We finally have something nice here, something good going, I for one am going to enjoy it!

Coaches fill out a report on refs at the end of each game (or are supposed to). On some occasions the other refs are supposed to as well. Also this will effect him going forward as a negative mark. He most likely will lose postseason games next year and the school can request not to have him do any of their games.

an unknown James Harrison also was part of that "3rd string crew" and scored a touchdown that day. Actually many of the players that day went on to play and star in a super bowl win for the Steelers. Parker, Randle El, Hines Ward, Larry Foote, Troy Polamalu, and Ike Taylor all played in that game. At the time it stunk but in hindsight that was a pretty good team.

Sheesh you are hard to impress . The fact is I have listed 6 different games for you but they aren't good enough - the sense of entitlement from a Bills fan is shocking! Why does the second Miami game count to you but the first one this year doesn't? The Bills are 7-6 for the first time in forever. ENJOY IT!

Major injuries in 12 and 13 scare me. Hughes if we are talking all players. Julius Thomas/Iupati would certainly be high on my list. Although I don't particularly care to spend huge money on a og.

I get $88 plus mileage and would assume his is somewhere in the same range but you are correct. Some of these games are more than an hour away and the coaches/parents abuse is out of control. Coaches will yell at me all game long about every little call but as soon as the final whistle blows "great job ref." I have had parents threaten me, follow me to my car, etc... Off topic but my favorite story from this year: Before the game (I ref soccer) coach says to me "we had a parent meeting to discuss with them not being as abusive to the officials so they shouldn't be a problem" me "wow they get carried away huh? what is your record?" (thinking that they are a highly competitive team) coach "1-8" During the game one parent in particular is yelling all game long "offsides that's offsides" ALL. GAME. LONG. son to mother "mom that isn't offsides" mother "I don't even know what offsides is but if everyone else is going to yell for it I am too" :lol:

Well they do get the AFC South but also the NFC East. I don't want to jinx myself in the adversity department but I posted earlier some of the things that the writer may have been discussing. As for injuries I plead the 5th as again I want no part in jinxing anything lol.

Well as a HS ref (albeit for a different sport) this lawsuit has no leg to stand on. All games are concluded and final the minute the refs leave the field. All referee decisions are final. It does suck that the ref made the wrong call. It does suck that the team lost because of it but I learned this at a young age: It is never one call or one play that cost you the game. It was your performance that allowed you to be in the situation where one call or one play cost you the game. It is not easy reffing HS sports either. There is no instant replay to bail you out, every parent thinks there kid is d-1 talent, every coach thinks you are out to screw them and want the other team to win. This official will likely deal with threats and many other things that just aren't necessary including this lawsuit. This is another one of those situations where there will be no winners just losers.

So the Browns game 2 weeks ago then? That would fit your definition.

whoops. yes I put that in the other thread but forgot to mention it here. Good catch! Exactly my point and all I have been trying to say. This team has not been under .500 all year and I am hopeful for what the future may hold!

There may very well be coaches out there but at what cost? If Marrone leaves then Schwartz likely is also gone. Now we need to get all 3 (oc/dc/hc) who are the candidates? Harbaugh: Will never come to Buffalo. Won't leave the west coast, feud with Kelly (yes I think this actually matters), difficult to deal with, team has regressed this year. College coach: absolutely no guarantee of success or that they won't have the same issues as Marrone. The hard part with college coaches is you don't know if it is the talent level being different or the coaches being great. Look at Saban as the best example of a great college coach and a poor pro one. Adam Gase: is it him or Peyton? D Bevell: Sure the hawks offense is ranked 11th however if you dig deeper they are averaging 197 ypg passing good for 29th. They do sport the #1 rushing offense which can be attributed to a all time rushing performance from the qb position as well as Beast Mode. There will be no scrambling like what Wilson does here in Buffalo. I think anyone you bring in will come with a lot of question marks. I think anyone you bring in will have an adjustment period. I would prefer to give Marrone 3 years as I think he has earned that and it is only fair but for the worst of the worst coaches (which we agree he is not). I don't like the idea that coaches get less than 3 years and ask anyone to find a team that went from terrible to good (and sustained it) in less than 3 years. This is a sad sack downtrodden franchise and for the first time in a long time I actually see a light at the end of the tunnel. It would be a shame to me to move on without giving him a fair shake. If the team regresses next year then by all means we can move on but this team this year has shown progress even with it's glaring holes.

I will also be impressed if they beat GB but the 4 games I listed are 4 games they won that they weren't the favorites or expected to win. Of the 4 games you listed 2 were road games (1 of which was on short rest), 1 was against the team who has owned us for 10+ years, and KC. Of all of those the KC game is the one that stings the most. It was at home and the Bills had the win in their sights. The others? 2 hof top 10 all time qbs and a division game (against a team Marrone is 3-1 against no less which makes me wonder why the first miami game doesn't count if the second one does) on short rest on the road. Would have been awesome to have those wins but completely understandable losses.

Mariotta is a clear top 5 if not the #1 overall choice. Winston will also likely be off the board. Currently the Bills sit in the #17 spot. For a QB to drop that far in the first round they would have to come with some serious question marks. Currently Mannion (the Oregon State guy) is the #148 rated prospect on drafttek. Bryce Petty (the Baylor guy) sits at the #132 rated prospect on drafttek. It isn't a leap that both of these guys are available in the second. Realistically between 17 and 49 the Bills are looking at missing out on Hundley and maybe one other guy. 2015 is shaping up to be another bad year for QB in the draft which may be something that the Bills thought prior to the Sammy trade. My post was 5 minutes later but I hadn't seen this when I posited the same idea I swear!

To hire an experienced coordinator you are looking at someone who failed in their last stop. To hire an inexperienced coordinator you are taking a chance on an unproven guy. I'm not sure who the good candidates, if there are any, would be.

I answered in the other thread but I will put it here as well: Beat Carolina who finished 13-3 last year Beat Miami last year when Miami needed to win to get in the playoffs 19-0 Beat the 9-4 Lions on the road Beat the Bears this year on the road when nobody gave them a chance to.

How about the win against the 13-3 Panthers last year How about beating the defending Super Bowl champions last year How about the 19-0 win against Miami last year when they needed to win to get in the playoffs How about the win on the road against the 9-4 Lions this year How about the win week 1 against Chicago when nobody (yourself included if you are being honest with yourself) had them winning No it was never a good o-line. The team featured a quick strike offense that both masked FItz's weak arm and the lack of talent on the o-line. The pass plays were quick hitters. In case you want to talk about how much better Gailey was he led the team to the 14th, 19th, and 25th best offense while here. So does Marrone get credit for Kiko, Woods, Sammy, Preston Brown, S Henderson, or Duke Williams? Or does he just get blame for EJ and Cujo and the other misses? If you can't admit that teams whiff on picks all the time the you really can't continue to participate in this thread

Who builds the team the GM or the HC? He drafted the players and brought in the backups and signed Orton? Wow what does Whaley do?

Not at all. He has his issues just as any coach does. He just isn't the worst coach ever, a bumbling idiot, or deserving of being fired. Too many people on this board are on this crusade. The guy has gotten 2 years. 2! To turn around the franchise with the longest playoff drought in the entire history. Instead of being snarky about 1 sentence why don't you actually discuss the points I have raised.

Oh it is very clear from EVERY post that you don't like Marrone. I just wish people could be a little more objective about what they are seeing. I think Marrone has done a great job with the cards he has been dealt. The o-line isn't good and neither is the qb. That makes any innovation or even a simple offense difficult to run. As for offensive line expertise I would think it is easy to imagine he doesn't have time to devote solely to the offensive line. He has an entire team to oversee that is why HCs have position coaches. Again this is the sad sack sorry for 15 years Buffalo Bills. This team is playing tough hard nosed football for the first time in forever. This team is winning more than it is losing for the first time in forever. I don't get how people don't see this. Would you want Pete Carroll as the head coach in Buffalo? He went 7-9 in each of his first 2 years in Seattle (this in his second opportunity), how about Belicheck who went .500 in his first 2 years in NE (in his second stint). This was a job that had a ton of history and most of it poor. This wasn't a glamor job nor a quick fix job. Do you honestly not see a different team from the Gailey/Jauron time? Those teams were timid and soft. Those teams were lacking talent and toughness. This team is close on the talent part (with a few missing important pieces) and has arrived on the toughness part.