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My feelings exactly. It also pushes the time table for knowing what we have with him back which is my biggest gripe about the move. If he stunk bad this year ala Geno we would know that and could make plans for next year. As it stands now we don't know what we have and won't find out which may push the drought longer. We know what Orton is and I am on record as saying that I don't think he is very good. As for the inner workings I agree, there may have been some locker room issues brewing that we as fans aren't privy to that may have forced Marrone's hand. Listening to the quotes after the benching that may be it. Speaking of the quotes..... It seems that many of the wrs were happy that the move was made. You know who never did come out and say he liked the move was Mike Williams. It seems he was a receiver with a good rapport with EJ. The whole throw it up in the clouds thing and I think he may have been unhappy with the move. I also think that may have something to do with his inactive status which started after the switch.

I really hope it isn't. I mean I am holding onto some memories but he runs the 2 minute drill incredibly well, and I just keep flashing back to that NE game last year. He played great as a rookie making his first start with little tc and had the team in position to win. Then he followed that up with the Carolina drive and I became optimistic that he could succeed. Add in the fact that he is so ridiculously easy to root for (says and does all the right things) and I would love to see him succeed. This is a tough situation for him to be in though as the fans have zero patience for anything after 14 years. Growing pains are looked at disapprovingly. Look at Tannehil in Miami. He struggled greatly in his first 2 seasons and is now showing signs of being a productive qb. Bills fans would have tried to run him out of town long before the middle of his 3rd season.

Imagine that you showed up.... I don't know. I have no idea if he would be better served learning hands on or hands off. I personally learn by doing so sitting wouldn't be beneficial to me. Who knows for EJ. I also stand by my idea that not a single win of Orton's couldn't have been won by Manuel. He won 2 games by leading the team to 17 points and a third by being gifted 6 turnovers. The Bills are winning in spite of him and that could definitely be done imo by Manuel.

No not our season (I still think the Bills have a shot ). Manuels season was ended by that play.

How has nobody mentioned this little nugget from Steve Young yesterday? “I’ve talked to his previous coaches, people I really trust and admire, that know quarterbacks. He doesn’t put the time in,” Young said. You can't do that and be successful in the NFL imo. RG3 strikes me as the guy who got by on physical talent and never had to put the work in. Now that he does, he doesn't know how to.

Yeah I have told this story many times but I was listening to the radio in the shower when it came across that they had hired Jauron. I felt sick and hung my head knowing that they were going to be terrible for at least 3 more years. I felt like a rape victim in that shower. I couldn't wash the filth of being a Bills fan off of me lol.

Your killing me Buffalo, can't you just play a bad game so I can call it fairly instead of screwing you?

I agree with all of this. I also want to add that if PI was called on the last int by Manuel as it should have he may very well have a different narrative to his season. I said as much then but it boggles my mind that blown call by the refs (on "their point of emphasis" no less) effectively ended his season. It also doesn't surprise me that Fitz played well. I caught his pregame speech and the emotion was raw. He said something along the lines of "I know I don't say much but this game means a lot to me, it means a lot to me" and I'll bet it did. He was written off here and Nix trashed him (not on purpose) publicly.

You wouldn't classify the Broncos, Saints, Browns, or Steelers as good teams? Each of these teams have an embarrassing loss on their record this season, something the Bills don't. Your post is ridiculous. They have enough talent to win if they weren't being poorly coached? They are 5-5 right now and have been winning. As I mentioned earlier they have not lost a single game that "they should have won" and all of their losses are against teams with winning records. I don't think the Bills are as good talent wise as you and others think so you have my point backwards. I think they are a middle of the road team talent wise. Their o-line is bad, they are playing a 3rd and 4th string rb, and a journeyman qb. 5-5 sounds pretty darn good with that group. You seem to think that they have gobs of talent and terrible coaches. I don't agree with that. Can I call myself a realist now? I think a startling lack of talent EVERYWHERE has much more to do with that feat than anything else. How many players in the last 14 years that played for the Bills went on to star elsewhere? Pat Williams Antoine Winfield Jabari Greer Jason Peters Marshawn Lynch Willis McGahee There may be a couple more but that is a very small number and when spread out over 14 years tells you that the Bills have been bad talent wise on the field (which is no secret)

See this guy did her a favor by stealing that ball. She got national exposure, a ball from the Saints, and now Gresham will be sending her a care package that I'm sure will be way better than just some ball!

I'm innocent lol. It was the shout box that got him going but come on what grown man cares about souvenir gloves from a player 12 years ago... Hold on. Maybe that is where his PTSD is from!!! I've solved it! On a serious note though PTSD is no joke. I can think of one guy in particular that I know whom it has completely changed. Outbursts of anger like we saw here are not uncommon.

Don't give up the good fight lol.

Got mad at Gug in the shoutbox.... Beerball might not find that to be a punishable offense

The only RB I would want in the 2nd is Gurley if he were still there. Anyone else and I would prefer to look at OG/TE at that spot. 2nd round is typically where TEs start to run off the board and I think either of those positions will help the O more than a RB would. To answer your question though Abdullah is good although his frame concerns me and TJ Yeldon would make me very happy in the 3rd. For QB I just don't know. Mariotta and Winston will be long gone as will likely Hundley. Dak Prescott is intriguing but more of a runner than thrower which I don't care for. As for Guard maybe getting Cyrus' brother her would help both of them out and I think he should be there in the 2nd. All of this is way too early though as I don't know who will be available at the 64th pick

Agree?!!? You can't agree with me we are arguing!

Yup same for me. I wanted 8-8 hoped for 10-6 will not be happy with 6-10. The NFC North and AFC West are 2 of the toughest divisions in football this year and the Bills have to play them both. The combined records of the teams that the Bills have played so far in those divisions is 28-22 and the Bills account for 3 of those losses. That means those teams are playing .596 football against the rest of the NFL and .400 against the Bills. That is impressive for Buffalo imo Why do you get to be a realist? Is it because your opinion is the only possible correct one? I have watched many good teams give away games in the NFL. Did you see the Broncos stink it up against the 3-6 Rams? Did you see the Saints have the 49ers on the ropes only to give up a 50 yard pass with less than minute left then fumble in OT to lose? Did you see the darling 6-4 (so they must be better than the Bills) Browns give the Jags their only win of the year? Did you see the Steelers get run over by the Jets who had lost 8 in a row? It is the NFL and a week to week league. Anything could happen. Step down from your high horse "realist" and claim your proper title of negative Nancy.

I agree that the ball was certainly intended for her but tough cookies. She ended up making out in the ordeal anyway. As for calling him a scumbag I just can't bring myself to care enough to even think that of him. He took a ball from another adult. I don't care. I don't care to get outraged for this woman and I don't care to get outraged at this guy. After watching the video my only reaction was people are upset about this?! As for the rational adult thing, I agree but An NFL game may not be the best place to find those people. Yeah this is about as far as I will go myself. Sure he shouldn't have done it and I probably would have busted his balls about it, but a national story? Calls for assault charges? Name Calling? Wanting to fight him? Can't get on board with any of that. I already have spent more time than I should have on this story lol.

Well I was already to type a response but Yolo beat me to it. I swear 4mer I can't tell if your hatred of Marrone is a continuation of your crayonz act or if he slept with your sister but it is tired. Dareus is an animal this year. Johnson (who I loved and didn't mind sparring big cat over) was a solid player but never a difference maker who the Bills no longer needed with the addition of Sammy (not M Williams), Williams is a noted malcontent who besides being inactive has caused no problems that fans are aware of. Maybe Marrone isn't as bad as you want/hope him to be. Maybe I am just falling for a crayonz routine...

Thanks I feel like I am taking crazy pills reading this thread! What in the world does what happened to you 12 years ago have to do with this? Are you serious? I'm sure it sucked to have this happen but this means nothing in regards to this woman's situation. Add on to the fact that she was given another ball and who cares? Serious question, if you had been given those gloves where would they be right now 12 years later? In a box somewhere? I agree completely and even when that happens it is a mad scramble. A guy died a couple of years ago trying to catch one of these! Is that guy a scumbag who deserves to be beaten? That is how this thread is reading to me. I think it is understood at all sporting events that children get first crack at any souvenir after that it is a free for all. Ladies first doesn't apply here, he didn't steal this ball, he caught it fair and square.

Being 12th out of 16 teams means nothing. Your post contradicts itself. You are what your record says you are? Well then they are average not bad and that is what most of us expected at the start of the season. I took a few days to think about the Miami loss as it stung and I came to a very similar realization as Casey did. This team isn't terrible. The coaches aren't terrible. Could both be better of course but look at this team and what it has done. This team has no wtf loss this year. They have taken care of the games they were supposed to win and every single loss is against a team above .500. The Bills have also played the 7th hardest schedule to date. They have played the 3rd hardest in the AFC and toughest in the AFC East. So many posters expected 6-9 wins this year, a total that is not out of reach, and yet people are ready to blow everything up. 2 losses in 4 days stings but those 2 losses were to a Chiefs team that is playing excellent football and a Dolphins team that has a defense at least as good as ours is lately. Neither of these were bad losses. The offense is a concern for sure especially with the lack of tds. The Bills have a lot of work to do which everyone knew going into the season. Kyle Freaking Orton is the starting QB on this team. Somehow though 5-5 isn't good enough for most of you. Newsflash the Bills haven't been this competitive in a long time. Save for the Pats* game the team has legitimately been in every single game this year. Teams have bad breaks such as the ones the Bills suffered against KC. KC is a good football team, look at what they just did to the reigning sb champs! Teams have poor offensive performances such as the one Buffalo had against Miami, look at what Denver did this last week against a not as good as Miami Rams team. Step back from the ledge. For Christ sakes you are Bills fans it has been way worse than this way sooner in the season than this. We're on to the Jets which is a winnable game, one week at a time "realists."

This situation falls squarely in the who gives a f*ck category for me. Sure the ball was intended for the woman, sure the guy "stole" it, but who cares. From my view he didn't hit the woman at all. This is no different than a baseball game when a ball goes into the crowd. It is a free for all. Jail, assault, name calling?!?! Sheesh.

I really would like to hear a good defense for continuing on with Orton. He has been terrible. The Bills offense has stagnated to a terrible level these last 2 games and Orton shoulders much of the blame. His accuracy and decision making have been terrible. As I said when ej was benched... We know what Orton is mediocre to poor. We still don't know what we have with ej. Orton has led the team to point outputs of 9, 13, 43, 17, 22, and 17. That is terrible and I just can't believe that ej could not have led the Bills to at least as many points.

Thanks! I'm hoping she doesn't hate me for making her a Bills fan lol

Watching at home with my 8 day old daughter and wife. I'm not counting the kc game as her first game as she was blindfolded under photosynthesis for jaundice. Come to think of it that might not be a bad way to watch the game. I will be wearing my new Jim Kelly jersey, wife in Fred Jackson jersey, baby in bills newborn gear that cost me way too much money. Let's go buffalo! Win this game so I can claim my daughter as a good luck charm and make my wife allow me to watch the games with her!

I ran the what if simulation and it had the bills winning 41-16! I'll take it except they had spiller score the first td and lee smith scoring a 46 yard td. Even with spiller out the first one has more of a chance of happening than the second! I'm hoping the Bills play bump and run today instead of sitting back. That will diminish kcs ability to move the ball. I'm also hoping that the bye week was good for the offense and helped them get in a rhythm.