section122

This is exactly what I am saying in the Marron sympathy thread. Too many people don't get to see the other teams/coaches and the mistakes they make.

Oh boy. Perhaps you missed the stat I posted earlier of them having the 15th hardest Strength of schedule in the conference and 30th in league compared to the 3rd hardest in the conference and 7th hardest in the league for the Bills?!?! Certainly they look much better. How many Browns games have you watched this year? Did you catch the game against the powerhouse that is the Jags? Or are you purely looking at records ignoring the fact that they get to play the NFC South which is atrocious this year? The Browns have 1 win against teams with a winning record. As I posted earlier they have only played 4 games all year against teams with a winning record! They lost to the JAGS! The 1 and 10 JAGS, they lost 23-7 to the Texans and Ryan Mallett, but yes they look much better . Not even close to what I'm saying. Improve the O-line and get a quality qb is what I am saying. The rb situation is what it is and I think Whaley actually did a very good job protecting against the worst case scenario that the injuries to Fred and CJ was. The talent on the offensive side of the ball is bottom of the league quality and the stats that you lean on reflect that. So Chan gets the excuse of DC but Marrone gets no benefit for his OC? Am I reading this correctly? Also do you think that Marrone is not playing to win? C'mon man...

I'm not sure what you living in GA has to do with watching a lot of games but no worries if you watch other games great I will take that at face value. My experience living in CNY is completely different in regards to the perceived talent on this team. This is coming from a lot of non Bills fans forced to watch Bills games as they are the 1 o'clock game. I have addressed the talent gaps many times in this thread and just did so a minute ago. I did see the stats. I think they are directly related to the rb, oline, and qb talent being bottom of the league bad. Do you care to state that Bryce and Boobie are a top of the league tandem? Perhaps that Urbik and Pears are top of the league Guards? Or the Kyle Orton is anything but bottom of the league QB? The all 22s routinely show plays that are left on the field by Orton. Is that the coaches or players? What about all of the missed opportunities in the final KC drive? Is that the coaches or players? If the Bills win that game and are 6-4 does that magically make Marrone a better coach? If the PI that should have been called in the Texans game leads to a win does that make Marrone a better coach? Is Tom Coughlin a bad coach bc his team is 3-8? Is Jason Garrett all of a sudden a good coach because the Cowboys are finally playing well?

As has been brought up by Big Cat and I..... We are looking at the talent on this team. Namely Kyle Freaking Orton. His play has been atrocious. Oh look he passed for 300 yards - yeah so did Zach Mettenberger. His play against KC at the end of the game was pathetic. He missed multiple open receivers but I guess that is on the coaches? How about the o-line. Where do they rank again? How about Freddie and CJ? Oh wait we are playing 1 rb who was st ace last year and another who wasn't active half the year. Look at the talent on this team!

YES!!!! We are so close and yet some people want to blow it up because it is happening right now. Even though it may be happening right now lol.

As a general question, how many other games do you watch in a week? Mis-managing game situations is directly correlated to results. Nobody gets mad at a coach for going for it on 4th down if they make it. That Miami game, punting with 10 minutes on the clock, would have been the right decision if the defense forced a 3 and out. The NFL has fans that over react to each game and each week. Talk to your friends that aren't Bills fans. Ask them what they think of the talent on the team. The answer will probably not be "they are stacked, if only they had a better coach" the answer will most likely be along the lines of "Watkins is pretty good and that d-line is scary but I don't know much about the rest of the team." Outside of Bills fans people don't think it is the coach holding them back. In my experience most of them think the team in general is middling (which I agree with)

Yup I have no idea where people got this idea that the team is uber talented. They are still deficient at the most important position in SPORTS.

Well he only has 3 questionable calls in his wiki and they seem to not have a consistent theme to them like Coleman's crew if that means anything.

2 teams begging to be beat?!?!? You mean the KC team that went out and beat the reigning SB Champs the very next week?!?!? The same KC team that was in the playoffs last year? Or the Miami team who played the AFC SB representative to a fg? The same Miami team that beat the Pats* this year? Road teams are 4-8 this year on Thursday night football. Please don't give me that BS. Just because you wanted them to win doesn't mean they were easy games to win. Using the current seasons records the Bills have played the 3rd toughest schedule in the AFC and the 7th toughest in the NFL. To be 5-5 at this point is nothing to sneeze at. Put it in perspective. The darling Browns who people want to rave about have played the 15th easiest in the conference and 30th overall. Do you think the Bills might look better if they played that schedule? As it is I think they are doing quite well. I want edit this as well: With all the talen they brought in? Preseason EVERY prognosticator, including many on this board, bemoaned the loss of Kiko and Byrd. Most thought that the off season additions were a net loss. To your bolded I agree. That said the o-line, qb, and rb situation do not lend themselves to this. The style of ball the Bills are playing is the style necessary when your team doesn't have the same talent as other teams and this team doesn't. Players on this team are routinely overvalued by fans. The receiving corps while good is not in the top echelon as many say, the o-line is bottom tier, the rbs are 3rd/4th string, the qb is a career backup and .500 starter, the lb corp is missing it's best player. All teams have holes but that is a lot of holes to cover up. IMO the Bills are doing a good job of doing just that and that is why they have to play the style they do. The losses aren't concerning to me. They suck but losing to a playoff team from last year and losing on the road on a short week to a division rival are things that happen to every team. Freak snow storms costing home games and practice time aren't so I will be interested to see how the team responds.

Okay so as each week and game was about to be played what did you expect? Did you expect them to beat DET or CHI? Did you expect them to lose to KC, SD? What game before it started did not go the way you expected it to? I am with you on benching EJ as I don't really care for it but the results are not in. We don't know if this is extremely benficial for EJ to sit and learn. We don't know if EJ was benched to stop a locker room mutiny. There is a lot about the switch that we don't know. Maybe we are 5-5 with developing EJ just not the way you want it. I agree that Hackett will most likely will be shown the door. However this could very well be a Crossman situation. The Bills need to improve their o-line considerably and as with any other team they will only be as succesful as their QB. Orton sucks to me. The all 22's seem to show a lot of open players (which would speak to proper play calling/design) that are being missed (which would speak to poor play/execution). So if 8-8 is acceptable to you why are you banging the drum for Marrone to be fired when that goal is well within reach?

He took a bunch of scrubs and made them productive to what end? It certainly wasn't in the win column. It certainly wasn't in the offensive or defensive rankings. Was it because CJ had 1 good year and Stevie had 3 (barely) 1000 yard seasons (which is a whopping 60 yards a game)?

That is what I recall as well... Are you serious? Let me put it again.... I expected losses to NE, SD, KC, DET, and CHI. Possibly even a split with MIA. So I was looking at 5-5, 4-6 at this point. I guess since it isn't in black and white, yes, they didn't get there how I thought they would get there but they are right where I expected them to be. You expected playoffs but when looking at the schedule how did you see that happening? With a 9-7 record? Or did you honestly think that after 6-10,6-10,6-10,4-12,7-9,7-9,7-9 the Bills would suddenly go 11-5?

from my post.... Ask yourself this. Are the Bills playing above, below, or at your expectations? Before the season what did you have this team pegged at being? This is pretty darn close to what I thought. I expected losses to NE, SD, KC, DET, and CHI. Possibly even a split with MIA. So I was looking at 5-5, 4-6 at this point. What about you? So answer. What were you expecting before the year?

You answered yourself directly in your own comment. None of the coaches are the same and what 4 players are the same? Other than the jersey they have nothing to do with each other. Strong on one side of the ball?!?! What teams save for the early 2000 defenses have been strong? The Bills have been weak on both sides of the ball for a long time. 6-10 followed up by 5-5 (we shall see where it goes) yes does bring us back to respectability. Every time they show the playoff picture and the Bills are listed there it shows well for the team. Ask yourself this. Are the Bills playing above, below, or at your expectations? Before the season what did you have this team pegged at being? This is pretty darn close to what I thought. I expected losses to NE, SD, KC, DET, and CHI. Possibly even a split with MIA. So I was looking at 5-5, 4-6 at this point. What about you?

Gailey got to hire a second dc and also got 3 years. Why doesn't Marrone get the same? Especially considering his first year equaled Gailey's best year. 40 posts half of which are in this thread. Obvious troll is obvious. Did Marrone sleep with your wife? No there is no way you have one.... Did Marrone run over your dog?

I wonder that a lot myself. So many of the mistakes that the Bills or their coaches make are routinely made around the league EVERY SINGLE SUNDAY. Of the 10 names I left on his list that I think are questionable 6 of them have a losing record, Fox got run out of CAR for being so bad but got Peyton and is now good , Garrett routinely went 8-8 even with a team projected to do much better but got brought back for a 5th (!) year (Marrone doesn't even get to finish 2), Pettine has the team at 7-4 and has benefited from playing 7 of 11 teams with losing records (the Bills have played 3 of 10), and Philbin who went 7-9, 8-8, now 6-5 which somehow makes him much better than 6-10 (1 less win) and 5-5.

These 3 things completely contradict themselves. They are at a clear disadvantage. Lost a home game, lost practice time, moving indoors. All of these set the Bills up for failure. I will be hoping for a Bills win but can completely understand if the team doesn't get it after this last week. Football doesn't happen in a vacuum and the players don't live in bubbles. There are many outside factors working against the Bills this week. You got to 22 easily but 10 of your selections are highly questionable. Even though he is losing a lot in his first year coaching a team that was a train wreck the last 13 seasons buys you nothing huh? The fact that this team is at .500 more than halfway through the season buys nothing huh? How about the fact that Lovie will be lucky to get to 6-10 this year? There in lies the rub. It isn't Marrone you are frustrated with it is the last 15 years, 13 of which Marrone had nothing to do with. When did Bills fans become so entitled? Seriously! How can 5-5 be a disappointment for any of you? After the **** show that has been the last 14 years a team that is competitive every single week and at .500 after 11 weeks somehow isn't good enough for you? It is disgusting. The Bills have a horrible o-line, start a bottom of the barrel qb, and have lost their top 2 rbs on what was supposed to be a run dependent team. Go back and look at the preseason threads. People were hoping for 8-8, hoping for it. Now all of a sudden it isn't good enough?!?! Here is what I know. Under Marrone the Bills are competing in every game. Under Marrone the D has been top notch. Under Marrone the Bills haven't dropped a wtf game (Oak-KC, DEN-STL, etc..). Under Marrone you can see the team playing with toughness, they aren't getting beat up every week. I can't believe, after 14 years of terrible football, everyone wants to move on from the first guy who has brought them back to respectability - after less than 2 years!!!

I can't get behind the idea that the Bills should be 8-2 right now. You really think they have the talent to do that? You think the O-line, qb, and 3rd/4th string rbs are 8-2 quality? You can just as easily argue that they won 2 of 5 games they shouldn't have (Det, Min). I can't believe that people think the season is over already. SD made the playoffs last year with their record after 10 games being 4-6, in 2012 the Bengals made it with a record of 5-5. The Bills are still in the thick of things which is a great accomplishment considering the o-line play, red zone performance, rb injuries, and playing a journeyman qb. I think the Bills are right on par with where they should be. That is what makes this week so crappy. No practice or preparation time will severely hamper the team going into a game they should on paper win. Losing to a KC team that before last night had played extremely well and against a Miami team that has been charging hard lately are not bad losses. It sucks that it happened but just confirms to me that they are a middle of the road team. One that can ill afford something like this snow storm to mess with their routine/preparation. As an aside road teams on Thursday night are a combined 4-7 this year. It is not easy to go on the road, on short rest, and play a divisional game.

Living in the syracuse market I will be more than a little upset if we are subject to blackout rules for ridiculousness but do not get this game.

It is confirmed. Orton will get hurt and EJ will come in to lead the team to a w!

Yeah Orton has no mobility and it appears his field vision has dwindled greatly. He is starting to get scared back there which is concerning.

I can't believe, being 2 hours east of Buffalo that it isn't snowing and there is no snow on the ground while they are getting pelted like that. Syracuse is starting way behind on the snow race this year!

I agree and have no idea on the inner workings so I am just speculating. Some people learn better by sitting and watching, and it seems from his quotes at least that EJ is learning how to be a professional from Orton. Some people learn better by doing. I have no idea which EJ is and agree he needs to get angry and fire up the competitiveness. The article about him screaming and people being taken aback (prior to Chi I believe) gave me hope that it is in there somewhere. I agree that he threw some ugly balls. I disagree about elite qbs throwing tight spirals though. Peyton throws wounded ducks all over the field and Rivers has quite possibly the ugliest throwing motion I have ever seen. As for Ejs chance he is now in a show me situation. I'm sure he will get the chance in tc to shine as well as preseason games. There will be no allowance for stinkers though imo. Either he will succeed in the games or not see the field again next year. I think if Orton plays well down the stretch he will opt out and try to force the Bills hand to make a decision on him as well. This is going to be a difficult offseason for Whaley in regards to the qb situation.

It was the 90s I believe but yeah this one sticks out to me. The worst weather wise game I went to was the Giants game the year they ruined the Pats* perfect season. Sideways freezing rain right in our face (section 122 - imagine that). What game was it the the goalpost got blown down? It was either the Chargers or the Browns but I can't quite remember.

way too harsh for the tenor of this conversation imo. Who exactly is pointing fingers in this thread?