SRQ_BillsFan

It all has to do with the selling price. If there is a new stadium, there has to be a lease. This limits options for a new owner, which may lower the selling price.

To me this just seems absurd, and contradicts your post through the years. Which I may not always agree with but certainly show that you are intelligent. This just seems so far out there and the nfl and banks for that matter would have checks and balances against this. Even if he was able to do it, the franchise has value and the banks would be smart enough to have the franchise as collateral and would be paid back when the team was sold. It would still have value, just not to Ralph's estate. This just seems so far out there, and as I said, not something I would expect from you. So it does make me wonder if you have an actual valid source or if it is truly something a friend of yours has speculated on? Because it just seems to far fetched to even be true. If simply speculation I just can't see how you would continue to defend it as even possible. Which does make me think maybe I am missing something, but I can't see what? In any case I hope that the initial sale is listed as highest bidder that plans to keep the team in the city. I am/was shocked that Cleveland had so many premium bidders that would keep the team in the city of Cleveland. Just shows what a jewel one of these franchises are and what we may be up against. I think I am concerned that there are little things that Ralph could be doing to help keep the team in Buffalo without selling it that he is not doing. Like the stadium, did they really believe the Ralph was fine? Why not have looked at a new one that would have helped a new owner? Why did the cost of renovations drop so much? Did they want to spend as little as possible because the teams future in the area is suspect at best? Just seems like the money may have been better spent on a new stadium, especially had they stayed at the $200+ mil originally discussed. And even at $200+ mill if the Ralph is the long term answer, wouldn't that have helped to satisfy a new owner (although I am not sure what was left out)? Just seems to me that there could be some things the Bills could be doing, but are not. Anyway, go Bills!!!

Not sure it needs to be looked at as a gift. From the Bills standpoint, it's a tax free loan. It's quite likely anyone buying this team or any other would borrow some of these costs. What does it matter if the money is borrowed from the Fan Alliance or from HSBC. It's technically still a loan either way, just with better terms. It doesn't mean the owner(s) couldn't afford to get a loan elsewhere simply that they wanted to take advantage of favorable interest terms. I also like the idea of it being a loan that the team has to pay back, this way it could be used again. Even if the team had only paid back $50-60 million of $100 million or more, that $50 million could be used again in another loan to the team that would be interest free. So several years latter it could be used to help fund a stadium. Any money the team would want now or in the future from the State/County to build a new stadium should have no bearing on the approval from the sale of the team. While they may want a new stadium it isn't part of the sale. They could ask for a new stadium 2 years after the sale is complete. In any case it is unlikely with or without this fund being involved in the sale of the team that a new stadium gets built in the area without taxpayer money. Unless there is a Santa Claus and an owner materializes with deep enough pockets to keep the team in Buffalo and build a privately funded stadium. Not sure I see both or either happening. May as well hope they never raise ticket prices too. Having said all of that I can't wait for Christmas and hope that does happen. Maybe Ralph is Santa and he just gives the team to the city of Buffalo as a gift? Wonder what the NFL would do then? Ralph would be dead and the city would own the team. Then they would probably be legally bound to sell it to the highest bidder - Just our luck.

The state money would be needed for a new stadium.

My view is that this would be in addition to the state/county elected "contributions". Otherwise we are simply replacing one pile of money with another.

Would the NFL allow this? They could lobby the IRS behind the scenes not to allow this charity status. Not sure if all owners would be behind something like this, especially those with deep pockets. Not sure what the drawback would be? Anything that is perceived to take away the power to do whatever they want would not be popular with some owners. If is was indeed successful I could see other teams taking advantage of this and using it as well. If it was highly successful it could become the norm for NFL teams. 10 years from now all teams could be doing this and then we might be at a disadvantage again for the same reasons we are facing this situation today. Having said that a city that does not have a team could do this to help attract one. What if Buffalo were to raise $120 mil and the good people in Salt Lake or some other city were to raise $320 mil to help buy a team? I think I might be getting too far ahead of things as this obviously has a long long way to go. Somewhere someone came up with the original PSL idea and at the time I would have thought no way would fans be dumb enough to do that in stadiums partially funded with taxpayer money or subsidies.

I like the idea. I question how it could ever be deemed a charity but if it was matching funds from Buffalo area companies would be huge. As someone else said, not sure how far it gets without the Bills or city/state getting involved early, which I am not sure would happen. People would need some type of assurance. Didn't the article also say that it would have no value similar to the Green Bay certificates? If that is the case who gets the money that is paid back? Or is the loan forgiven somehow if certain criteria is met, such as the team staying put for x number of years? I am just not sure how it gets started so that it would have the legitimacy needed. Eventually we still have the issue of a stadium and how that would be funded. A move to another city would allow the owners to sell PSL's. This can make a team a large portion of this money much easier without having any strings tied to it. I question whether the Bills could generate much from PSL's. The area simply does not have the resources with that kind of disposable income. Having said all of that, I would love to see something like this work. I am sure they could come up with some type of certificate that could be framed and proudly displayed in our man cave.

I understand that and I'm ok with it. To me it's more football.

I would prefer to see 2 more and have 50% of the teams make it. It still means you are in the top tier of your Confrence. It also allows for a team to recover from serious injury. Such as Green Bay did this year. Overall thir record was mediocor, but that's cause they lost Rogers. Completely different team when he was healthy. Injuries can make or break a season.

Winner!!!!

Live near Tampa and was surprised when this conversation came up on local radio yesterday both hosts said they thought Kelly was better than Marino and Elway.

I think they should raise them so I don't have to watch guys throw it over the crossbar and act like they dunked it.

I'm all in! What choice do we have?

Too funny,, I actually did "Laugh out Loud". Every year I battle with this thinking this is the year we start to roll.

Fitz was the starter for too long. We simply wanted him to prove everyone wrong.

Would Kelly have started his rookie year? Wasn't he comming off of a bum knee? Not sure who our QB was (am at an airport) but I am guessing he wasn't very good. While Kelly was impressive in Houston, I didn't watch him from the start and there is the question of similar talent around him. Certainly slinging the ball around like he did in Houston helped him develop and did wonders for his confidence. I have often wondered if he would have the same starting 2-12 in Buffalo. Especially when he didn't want to be here. We will never know, but glad it worked out like it did.

None. Although I wish several had chosen to stay. We didn't make anyone leave. #BillsFansForever!

+1 this has a lot to do with it. But still impressive either way.

You are correct, my bad. I did not think that through far enough.

Except they don't spend to the cap, it's actual dollars spent in a given year last I knew. So the Bills, using their philosophy, are $10 mil. closer to the cap. Since the bills don't believe in using the cap to their advantage. Unless there was something in the new CBA that prohibits this, I have never heard that this was no longer the economics the team was working under.

Lets not forget, Ralph Wilson was against the dome because it would not seat enough people. He was against the dome and the 3rd party management system that was put in place for it by Erie County. Ralph was flying to Seattle at the time and meeting with them about a possible relocation. The dome for $50 Million approved in 1968/1969 by the county, at the time would have been approx 55,000 seats. The company building it would have managed the dome as well, as a 3rd party manager. There was no way they would go over this amount and in fact the bids for the 55,000 seat dome were over $50 Mil and rejected by the county. Ralph said he would not sign a lease with a stadium that small. Ralph wanted an 80,000 seat outdoor stadium, and said he would refuse to sign any lease with a 3rd party management team. He would not consider a dome unless it would seat over 65,000, something that was impossible with the $50 Million the county had approved. Ralph said a 65,000 seat dome would not be his preference but he felt he could live with this. Ironically, I just spent some time looking this up at Newspapers.com earlier this week for some reason.

I have also read that now the newer digital signals used do not even reach Rochester from Buffalo. Also the Rochester channels that used to reach whatever small portion of the Syracuse county no longer travel that far since converting to digital. Say what you will, but this truly is a conspiracy. LOL.

He hasn't been at practice or taken part in the game planning. I'm sure the choice was his, but betting they allowed him to make it. I really do not believe that it says anything one way or the other. Just my thoughts on it, not that I really have a clue.

As much as I HATE the Dol phins and would like to see this team win out, I would love to be in position to and knock the patriots out of the playoffs. That in fact is my Christmas wish. If only there was some way we could win this game and still ruin the Boston area's season. Now that would have been awesome. Tough choices - Beat them both - Squish the fish - Piss off New England. I gotta go with the last one, much more meaningful.

Not sure I agree they are overly concerned about fan safety, maybe a little bit. I think they are more concerned with the backlash that would come for people paying top dollar for tickets that would be unable to get to the game. That is the concern, not the safety of those fans.