thebandit27

Let's blast point #6 out of the water for good: Why did the Cincinnati Bengals move LT Andrew Whitworth to LG 3 seasons ago? Answer: because with backup LT Anthony Collins in the lineup, they were able to get their best 5 on the field. Pop quiz: did Whitworth sign for LT or LG money in FA?

Good grief...a demotion? How so? Demotions usually mean less responsibility or money--this means neither. Not sure if you've been paying much attention, but defenses will always attack the weak link on the OL--it's not difficult to put your best pass rusher over the RT or LT if you want to take advantage of a matchup.

Just sayin' "LB Jayon Brown (6-0 1/4, 226) ran the 40 in 4.51 and 4.56 seconds, had a 32.5-inch vertical, a 4.51-second short shuttle, a 7.20-second three-cone, and added 20 lifts on the bench. All of those numbers represented significant improvement to what he did at the combine." http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000794269/article/pro-day-results-north-carolina Also, nice workout numbers, Dylan Cole. I see you: http://www.foxsports.com/college-football/story/cole-impresses-at-missouri-state-pro-day-032217 32 bench reps, 39" vertical

Watching him try to cover a still-hobbled Sammy in his return to action was quite funny. Smoked twice on deep routes, but at least on the 2nd one he had the good sense to take the DPI penalty.

The numbers absolutely line up for Jones and Watkins in their first 3 NFL seasons: One of these sets of numbers is Julio Jones' production in his first 3 NFL seasons, the other is Sammy Watkins... 34 games played, 285 targets, 174 receptions, 2,737 yards, 20 TDs, 42 receptions of 20+ yards, 15 receptions of 40+ yards, 115 1st downs 37 games played, 275 targets, 153 receptions, 2,459 yards, 17 TDs, 36 receptions of 20+ yards, 13 receptions of 40+ yards, 108 1st downs That was the original point that I made. I'm not saying that availability isn't a concern--I'm saying that it's the only concern

Um, if you're going to argue that the top prospects have warts and won't be day-1 starters, don't you think it's prudent to back that up? I can tell you what I like about each of these guys if you'd like...I don't think it's asking too much that you back up your opinion with more than "trust me"

And what do you see when you look at these guys? I ask because we've got 3-4 guys in this thread alone that can actually talk shop--tell me your evaluations. Oh, and forget about who's everyone's favorite corner. Show me a single analyst that hasn't said that this corner class is a cut above any in a long time. I can easily pull tweets like this: Daniel Jeremiah‏Verified account @MoveTheSticks Follow More This draft has the deepest/most talented group of CBs I've seen in several years. And quotes like this: "I think one of the messages in this year's draft at edge, corner and safety is there is great quality at the top, but there is depth throughout." https://nflcommunications.com/PublishingImages/Pages/NFL-Network-Analyst-Mike-Mayock-2017-NFL-Scouting-Combine-Conference-Call----Transcript-and-Audio/Mike%20Mayock%202017%20NFL%20Scouting%20Combine%20Transcript.pdf

My point is quite simple: up until 2016, Watkins had the highest yards per target in the NFL for the 2 years that he was in the league. He has nearly identical production through 3 years as Julio Jones. There isn't a thing he can't do on the football field. His only issue has been availability, and even at that, he's on part with Jones through 3 seasons.

Forgive me if this sounds snarky, because I don't mean it that way: why would the current coaching staff have made any changes before they can even see these guys in a football setting? I'm sure it's on the table as a consideration; new coaches have to look at any scenario to make the team better.

My favorite quote, because that's what people say when they don't want to acknowledge context.

Agreed--get yourself a QB in round 1 (assuming you've identified a guy that you believe in), grab a WR in round 2, then corners and coverage 'backers. I've half-joked on here for weeks that I could build a big nickel back-7 from rounds 3-7 of this draft alone...just give me Howard Wilson, Jalen Myrick, Jayon Brown, and Charmeachealle Moore and we're in business. Do you have any reasoning to back that up? Because there are a lot of analysts that disagree with you.

Agreed No. It's the best corner class in a very long time. There are guys like Moreau, Tankersly, Q. Wilson, Tabor, King, and Jackson that will be 2nd rounders this year, and could easily be 1st rounders in any of the previous 3 drafts. 3rd round guys like Douglas, Howard Wilson, and Witherspoon will compete for starting jobs as rookies. That's without even discussing likely 1st rounders Lattimore, White, Humphrey, Awuzie, and Conley (Sidney Jones was a top-15 lock before his injury too). You could see as many as 15 corners go in the top 64 picks. Meanwhile, we're talking about 3-4 first round safeties (Hooker/Adams/Baker/Peppers) and another 3-5 that will go top 64 (Melifonwu, M. Williams, Maye, J. Jones, Evans)

Context: http://www.footballperspective.com/guest-post-adam-harstad-on-sammy-watkins/ http://nysportsbiz.com/2016/01/04/sammy-watkins-arguably-nfls-top-wr-2nd-half-season/ When he gets the targets, he's as good as anyone.

Indeed. Actually, on a per-target basis, Sammy paces right along with OBJ and Julio. I know most fans don't bother digging into the numbers for context; it's much easier that way.

Suppose that the OL is better with Kouandjio at LT and Glenn at RT than it is with Glenn at LT and Mills at RT...you're telling me that you wouldn't move Glenn because...

I agree that the number one predictor of productivity for a WR is targets. I do think, however, that "quality of targets" (if you will permit me to make up a phrase) contributes a measure of context that cannot be quantified

Wait, you're telling me that you don't think that this crop of corners--billed as the best corner class in years--doesn't have anyone that will be better than a 6th round pick that never started in college and played only 200 snaps as a rookie?

It's a literal shame that I'm apparently the only person that has seen The Raid.

This theory does not hold water. For starters, Glenn's value is not going to be diminished by moving to RT for a single season. If a guy has shown that he can play LT, that's what he'll get paid to do, see contracts like Erik Fisher and Andrew Whitworth, who got paid like LTs even though they flipped between sides (and in Whitworth's case, positions). Heck, even some guys that haven't shown that they can play LT (like Lane Johnson) are getting paid like LTs. The money is a non-issue. As for Kouandjio, the whole point of inserting him at LT isn't to usurp Glenn; it's to get the best set of tackles on the field for this team, this year. If he shows well at LT, then he leaves in FA--because Glenn is going to move back to LT regardless. Moving Kouandjio gives you time to find and groom a replacement at RT. The bonus is that Cyrus signing for LT money in FA probably gives you a great shot at a 3rd round comp pick--I think every single person on this board would take a late 3rd round pick in 2018 for Kouandjio if offered a trade.

He easily outpaced the rest of the NFL in productivity the final 9 games of 2015, which just so happened to coincide with a major uptick in targets. For 2014-2015, he lead the entire NFL in yards per target. When he's on the field, he's top-5 in terms of production. Case-in-point: One of these sets of numbers is Julio Jones' production in his first 3 NFL seasons, the other is Sammy Watkins... 34 games played, 285 targets, 174 receptions, 2,737 yards, 20 TDs, 42 receptions of 20+ yards, 15 receptions of 40+ yards, 115 1st downs 37 games played, 275 targets, 153 receptions, 2,459 yards, 17 TDs, 36 receptions of 20+ yards, 13 receptions of 40+ yards, 108 1st downs One player played with Matt Ryan in an offense that ranked 4th, 8th, and 3rd in the NFL in passing attempts. The other played with EJ Manuel, Kyle Orton, and Tyrod Taylor in an offense that ranked 13th, 31st, and 32nd in the NFL in passing attempts.

Yes, really. Green is probably worth the discussion, but Evans is missing the speed and route-running ability to be considered top-5 talent IMO. On pure talent alone, I would call the top-5 as Julio, Demaryius Thomas, Sammy, and then Beckham and Brown because their other attributes aside from size are so exceptional.

Do you seriously not understand why Glenn would be more than willing to move to RT? It's been covered her ad nauseum. He's being paid like a LT, and is one year into a LT contract. Moving to RT for a single season (in an effort to get the 2 best OTs on the field) does not in any way diminish his compensation or his future value. If you can read the above two sentences and NOT understand why the team would ask him to move, and why he should be more than willing, well, I'm not certain that the concept of strengthening a unit on the field will ever make sense to you.

If we're talking WR talent, then Julio is probably the only guy I'd take ahead of Sammy, since he's the only one that is elite in literally every aspect of the position (size, speed, route-running, catch radius, etc.). The only aspect that Sammy lacks in comparison to Julio is size.

It'll be Cardale vs. a rookie for the QB2 spot

McCoy Watkins Dareus