JESSEFEFFER

I suspect there was too much variance in the type of pass he could choose to throw. Add in windy conditions and he would have even more reasons to vary the kind of deep ball he chooses to throw. Because his arm is so strong he can vary the launch angle and velocity so there are multiple ways to get the ball 60 yards down the field. Many QBs can only get it there one way, max velocity at the optimum angle.

I think most who like their combine numbers do not run at their proday. Those who did not post a time at the combine that they feel is their best effort are rather anxious to improve upon them at their proday. Both Epenesa and Moss were denied the chance to do just that and if they had they likely would not be Bills.

I know that it's an attempt to be happier post Christmas with the gifts you got rather than what you thought you wanted but..... Let's compare him to Taylor, the homerun hitter. It's likely true that Zack blocks better, does more as a pass catcher, breaks more tackles and fumbles less than JT. If this is generally true, we'd all be quite pleased that he's a Bill. The bonus is that Epenesa is on the team too.

He is inclined to not give up on a play and he has a rare combo of size, power and athleticism that allows him to extend the play when it would have otherwise been over for most anyone else. That's when we hold our breath because something amazing/head scratching is likely to happen. To his credit, I think the last of the latter type happened in weeks 3 and 4. That is until the pitch attempt in Houston.

I sense we will be having some sort of argument about by which measure do we say he is "Top 10" or whatever. In fact, to be even having that debate would be a good sign. It is rare for the starting QB of a regular playoff contenting franchise not to be thought of as a top performer. That's the way it works. I think Josh will be at a minimum the equal of Joe Flacco as a passer. The other offscript, playmaking traits are mostly a bonus beyond what most other QBs offer but do get him in trouble at times as well. He is working his way up from the bottom and entering 2020 as about #20 or so but trending towards the top.

If they make that improvement in scoring, he'd be the biggest contributor to it. There'd be improvements in most all of the "individual" QB stats.

A "parody of an NFL QB prospect" simply would not be capable of performing that well in those situations. So most here would agree that he cleared that Barr too. Two areas that are 100% on him to improve upon. Ball security while on the move and under tackle and consistently giving his WRs a chance to make a play on the deep throws. We should be able to see if he improves in those areas rather easily. I think 400+ points would be a nice benchmark.

No RZ interceptions either. I think that's because when he can run it in from 20 yards and under, he doesn't feel the need to force the ball to get the TD. He is a good/great short yardage runner and he is good/great against nickel defenses with their backs turned. Those TD runs could be more TD throws but at the risk of likely more ints.

Some RBs take hits and others deliver them. I think he is more the latter. He seems to have good to great vision, get very low prior to contact, protect the ball and maintain his balance after delivering the blow, sometimes with a Kenny Davis "Texas Twister" type spin move. He should rarely be tackled for a loss. He has a leverage advantage on taller LBs and a momentum advantage (m * v) on most DBs who might choose to step into his path. Assuming they are a successful duo, and they just might be all that, I wonder what such a pair would be worth on their second contracts. If they split the work load they may be viable talents through a second contract and do generally great things for the Bills offense in all situations. So, it is considered foolish to pay a RB Todd Gurley or Zeke Elliott contracts but what does Brandon Beane pay each half of a highly effective pairing? I hope we get to see in the next few years.

How much more of a "project" is he? Josh Rosen was the consensus "most pro ready" QB of the 2018 draft. How is that project going? Is Sam Darnold closer to being a finished product? Is that project further along?

It's more than 1 per game. Closer to 2.

Since Knox and Singletary were big contributors to this my answer is no. They were so underutilized as pass catchers in their college careers that it was entirely predictable. They also showed some real after catch ability that makes you think they could be key parts of a dynamic offense.

I think it's fair to say that there is a nonzero chance Josh has a Trubisky like 3rd year. What that probability is I do not know. I think he will do everything he can to get them wins whether he improves as a passer or not. This does make a difference. It's something Josh has that many others do not.

To say that something has yet to happen is much different than saying it won't or can't. Many detractors speak that way of Josh. Most here do not. In this case I was making note that Billl used "yet" whereas earlier he suggested that an NFL team shouldn't want him to be their QB.

Josh tended to throw "past the sticks" on third down. Drops on third down that would have been a first down would be like a mini turnover. There will still be a punt but it has the same net effect as an int 40 yds downfield. I'd suspect that Josh leads this metric based on lost possessions, first downs that would have been, and how that translates into lost points. At some point during the off-season Coach McDermott mentioned needing receivers that catch the ball. I'd bet the Bills analytics staff had some similar measurements that were in Sean"s mind when he said that.

Yet. The best choice of words you have made. Any of us who are happy to have Josh as a Bill think in those terms. "Yet" implies there is more to come. Something that could be great.

It seems to be that the question was even asked. Darnold or Mayfield could have been the comparison. They are in a similar place.

I was thinking the same. Maybe he should shop for a new team to follow. One with a fully developed QB whose teams never win much. Stafford, Ryan, Rivers types who are good enough to get their coaches fired every couple of years.

There are some parallels between their 2nd year progressions. Following a close playoff loss, heading into the all important 3rd year and needing to demonstrate a higher level of QB play. I might argue that Josh having a Trubisky like 3rd year would be the worst possible outcome for the 2020 season. The Bills franchise in a return to QB purgatory puts everything else at risk. The one big difference is that Josh has shown that he can do more to help his team win while he is putting his overall game together.

As a general observation, the quality of the defenses they face in 2020 is about the same based on last year's DVOA rankings. There is a 1 for 1 swap in similar team defenses. SF for Bal, LAR for Phi, Sea for Dal, LAC for Cle, Ari for Was, Oak for Cin, Pit, Ten and Den remain. It was the D that had the easier time with last year's schedule and will face a tougher one this year. They faced a handful of QBs soon to be replaced. I think the offense needs to score 400+ points to get 10+ wins and they are primed to do just that. All this is to say that the schedule for 2020 does not seem so daunting to me and they should be the AFCE team best equipped to handle it.

Well they are paying for those picks in the sense that they are overstocked on FA signings and whatever bonuses were paid to sign them make a cap hit, although minimal by NFL standards, when they are traded. Teams with little cap space should be very reluctant to play the game that way.

I am asking you to elaborate on this lest I get the wrong idea. I read controversial, often to the point of poor outcomes as opposed to say, inspirational or influential. Sometimes those latter types can be polarizing too because they ruffle the feathers of those who do not care about their jobs as much. Using the fruit of the tree analogy, I would say Franklin must be or have been a decent dad. Polarize is to force a something or someone to go in only one direction, or to cause people to divide into two very distinct groups.

I love the enthusiasm of veteran players that know what it is to win but are leaving a less than ideal situation in their more recent past. I think they bring a good message to the younger players. If you appreciate what you have you will do what you can to protect it. Part of the culture thing.

I can see why Beane was so anxious that he was willing to proactively trade up to prevent some other team from doing so. Gipson is more of a gadget RB/WR that doesn't run between the tackles and is more WR we were told. He is pretty tall to be a between the tackles runner. The other two taken, Dillon and Vaughn, are lesser talents at this time. Moss has shown much more as an all-around player. If we had the typical war room video of the draft, I bet we would have seen lots of smiles, high fives and back slaps after pick #85 was made. Lucky indeed.

I had laughed at the video before. It's a ++++ with the play by play.