JÂy RÛßeÒ Posted October 28, 2009 Share Posted October 28, 2009 Think of it this way - do you throw the ball to the receiver covered by the other teams' best shut-down cornerback? Not usually. So the other one gets more tackles and the occasional pass-defensed or pick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metzelaars_lives Posted October 28, 2009 Author Share Posted October 28, 2009 I knew this was coming. To give you an idea of how meaningless this stat is, the two players behind him I've never heard of, and they play for Oakland and Tampa Bay. Barrett Ruud is a pretty damn good LB that I would think even a casual football fan would be familiar with and Kirk Morrison is going to be a pretty highly sought after free agent next season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted October 28, 2009 Share Posted October 28, 2009 d) Keith Ellison is a BEAST! ... at least when he's not selling his new fragrance Keith Ellison: Solutions I smell a holdout for 2010. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Latason Posted October 28, 2009 Share Posted October 28, 2009 Keith Ellison is second in the NFL in tackles with 68. He has by far the most for an OLB (next most is 56, which is good for 11th place). Either a) the tackles statistic in the NFL is completely arbitrary and doesn't mean anything at all or b) maybe he is at the very least a pretty solid backup LB in the NFL and doesn't deserve to be cut as I would venture to say 90% of you on here think he should be. Or c) sarcastic response... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metzelaars_lives Posted October 28, 2009 Author Share Posted October 28, 2009 I think I've gotten a clearer idea of what people think of Keith Ellison on here. If you think he is a horrendous football player, you are clueless. The consensus amongst rational fans seems to be that he is a reliable and durable backup LB. Personally, I think they need a hulking 265 lb. MLB ala Patrick Willis and then you move Poz and Mitchell back outside. Poz would be a solid second best LB on a winning team's roster and Mitchell would be a very solid third best LB on a winning team's roster. Ellison would be a solid backup/fourth best, etc. We just need one sick LB to bump everyone down a peg! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gugny Posted October 28, 2009 Share Posted October 28, 2009 The defense is on the field for 45 minutes/game. Of course he has a lot of tackles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UpstateSwagger Posted October 28, 2009 Share Posted October 28, 2009 Think of it this way - do you throw the ball to the receiver covered by the other teams' best shut-down cornerback? Not usually. So the other one gets more tackles and the occasional pass-defensed or pick. Are you kidding me? Who the hell is our "best shutdown linebacker" that teams are just terrified of running the ball at? Is it Paul "The Eraser" Posluszny or Chris "The Street Hammer" Draft? That is a really reached on analogy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No QB - No Bueno Posted October 28, 2009 Share Posted October 28, 2009 I think I've gotten a clearer idea of what people think of Keith Ellison on here. If you think he is a horrendous football player, you are clueless. The consensus amongst rational fans seems to be that he is a reliable and durable backup LB. Personally, I think they need a hulking 265 lb. MLB ala Patrick Willis and then you move Poz and Mitchell back outside. Poz would be a solid second best LB on a winning team's roster and Mitchell would be a very solid third best LB on a winning team's roster. Ellison would be a solid backup/fourth best, etc. We just need one sick LB to bump everyone down a peg! Willis isn't hulking. Willis weighs 240lb. He's an explosive athlete unlike Poz. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Latason Posted October 28, 2009 Share Posted October 28, 2009 Keith Ellison is second in the NFL in tackles with 68. He has by far the most for an OLB (next most is 56, which is good for 11th place). Either a) the tackles statistic in the NFL is completely arbitrary and doesn't mean anything at all or b) maybe he is at the very least a pretty solid backup LB in the NFL and doesn't deserve to be cut as I would venture to say 90% of you on here think he should be. Or c) sarcastic response... I don't have much faith in the # tackles stat....my guess is that Ellison's tackles are with relatively high average yards per gain, which needs to be combined with # tackles in assessing a defender's effectiveness....and I'm still not sure why this forum tends to kill Ellison, but treat Poz with such kid gloves.... even Chris Brown noted Poz's 11 tackles against the Panthers, but how many tackles did he make (other than his one 4th down stop) that were actually good defensive plays??....in my opinion, our linebacking is very weak and our real need is a Ray Lewis-type force in the middle that makes plays and doesn't get pushed around....move Poz to the outside and get a stud MLB in the draft! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metzelaars_lives Posted October 28, 2009 Author Share Posted October 28, 2009 Willis isn't hulking. Willis weighs 240lb. He's an explosive athlete unlike Poz. Saw that after I posted. OK, a good LB, I don't care how much he weighs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JÂy RÛßeÒ Posted October 28, 2009 Share Posted October 28, 2009 Are you kidding me? Who the hell is our "best shutdown linebacker" that teams are just terrified of running the ball at? Is it Paul "The Eraser" Posluszny or Chris "The Street Hammer" Draft? That is a really reached on analogy. It was more of a general statement. People have found something that works - run mostly at Ellison and you get 160+ yds rushing per game. Until he gives them a reason to do otherwise, teams will continue to do that no matter who's on the other side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramius Posted October 28, 2009 Share Posted October 28, 2009 Ellison shouldn't be starting. He's a great guy that would be an excellent backup and can be a spot starter, but he's not the guy you want out there for 16 games a year. My biggest problem was that the F.O. saw how weak he was last season as a 16 game starter and then made nothing more than a token effort to upgrade his spot. As for tackles, they are almost a worthless stat that is kept by teams and not the NFL. There was a study done about the 2008 season and teams are all over the board when it comes to defensive snaps faced versus total tackles by the team. There were some teams, like SF, who had recorded 250+ more tackles than defensive plays faced last season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach55 Posted October 28, 2009 Share Posted October 28, 2009 The fact of the matter is Ellison just isn't as bad as everyone says he is. He is undersized and doesn't have all-pro ability, but what he is good at (and why he starts) is he plays his position and is where he is supposed to be. Half of playing defense is just not royally f-ing up. Perfect example - Maybin - on numerous occasions he has come in and is supposed to engage the tackle and have contain. Instead he shoots around the end, takes himself out of the play and leaves a hole. As now there is a big hole, the back can hit it fast as there is nothing to read, thus being at full speed when he hits the second level. If Maybin just engages the tackle (even if he gets blocked), he allows enough time for the second level to pursue and stop the play at the line or for a short gain. The biggest problem in football is people don't know their plays (yes on a professional level too). You stay at home and do as you're told, you are not a liability (you may not be an asset either, but at least you are not hurting your team) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thoner7 Posted October 28, 2009 Share Posted October 28, 2009 So you really think other teams are saying, "let's run at Keith Ellison as to avoid these undrafted rookie free agents and guys that the Rams cut that weren't playing football last week?" You hit the nail on the head. I have never seen worse LB play than the sh*t Ellison puts out each week. He has been completely outplayed by Corto, Palmer, and Draft - which is saying something cause those guys arent very good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VADC Bills Posted October 28, 2009 Share Posted October 28, 2009 I agree with you PushPile, it's just too damn easy for people to keep pointing to Keith Ellis for any of our defensive woes. Whoever absolutely discredits the tackles numbers is either a !@#$ing idiot or has an agenda. In either case, if it discredits anything, it is the following words that comes from that particular poster. The bottom line is that he is reliable player, he is decent in coverage, has been very durable (which is a lot more than what I can say for many LB's in this league), and he has gotten more stout against the run. I don't know how many times I have seen him make tackles at or behind the line of scrimmage this year, certainly alot more than what I saw from him in the past. Is he a "difference maker"? No, but he is solid, and I'm glad that he is a Bill. As crazy as it sounds Ellison has been our most consistant LB this season and I have seen improvement each year. Mitchell can make the impact play in coverage...average everywhere else. Poz is good when the play comes right at him he is otherwise slow and is often pushed the extra yard or two on the initial impact...the most over rated player on defense along with Witner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuckincincy Posted October 28, 2009 Share Posted October 28, 2009 The biggest problem in football is people don't know their plays (yes on a professional level too). You stay at home and do as you're told, you are not a liability (you may not be an asset either, but at least you are not hurting your team) Yep. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bills_fan Posted October 28, 2009 Share Posted October 28, 2009 I think I've gotten a clearer idea of what people think of Keith Ellison on here. If you think he is a horrendous football player, you are clueless. The consensus amongst rational fans seems to be that he is a reliable and durable backup LB. Personally, I think they need a hulking 265 lb. MLB ala Patrick Willis and then you move Poz and Mitchell back outside. Poz would be a solid second best LB on a winning team's roster and Mitchell would be a very solid third best LB on a winning team's roster. Ellison would be a solid backup/fourth best, etc. We just need one sick LB to bump everyone down a peg! Poz is too slow to play OLB. He is borderline too slow to play MLB in a Tampa 2. I think he would excel playing closer to the LOS in a conventional 4-3. We need an impact OLB. If we get that, Ellison and Draft to the bench as depth guys. Poz, Mitchell and new OLB as starters. We then would have LB depth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PushthePile Posted October 28, 2009 Share Posted October 28, 2009 As crazy as it sounds Ellison has been our most consistant LB this season and I have seen improvement each year.Mitchell can make the impact play in coverage...average everywhere else. Poz is good when the play comes right at him he is otherwise slow and is often pushed the extra yard or two on the initial impact...the most over rated player on defense along with Witner. Absolutely. Keith Ellison has improved. I can't honestly say that about Poz, Whitner, and Mitchell. Personally, I have no use for Mitchell. I think it's almost a crime he gets paid to play the game. As for Whitner and Poz? They aren't worth much more than Ellison at this point. Put aside where everybody was drafted and what jerseys you may own. All three of these guys aren't difference makers, all three can get dominated, and all three have physical limitations. Our defense is filled with solid complimentary player and no true studs. In the NFL solid complimentary players make a huge difference but thats assuming you can draft or pay for a few studs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thoner7 Posted October 28, 2009 Share Posted October 28, 2009 Anyone who has a strong understanding of defensive football has noticed Ellisons shortcomings. Something as simple as backside pursuit or taking on a blocker poorly can result in 70 yard runs. This is where Ellison really hurst us. I have been asking of a tape of the Carolina game so I can make an Ellison lowlight tape. If you have a copy PM me. I will be recording and making a lowlight tape of the Houston game. This film should leave no doubt- Ellison sucks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SageAgainstTheMachine Posted October 28, 2009 Share Posted October 28, 2009 Anyone who has a strong understanding of defensive football has noticed Ellisons shortcomings. Something as simple as backside pursuit or taking on a blocker poorly can result in 70 yard runs. This is where Ellison really hurst us. I have been asking of a tape of the Carolina game so I can make an Ellison lowlight tape. If you have a copy PM me. I will be recording and making a lowlight tape of the Houston game. This film should leave no doubt- Ellison sucks. Wait a minute...you plan on proving that Ellison is bad by putting together a lowlight video? I could create a lowlight video of Brett Favre's worst interceptions...would that prove he sucks? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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