John Adams Posted September 14, 2009 Share Posted September 14, 2009 Relate it to Bruce Smith's induction speech. Every single guy I've talked to who covered him had some not-so-nice things to say about his ego, arrogance, whatever you want to call it ... but in Canton, he was surprisingly gracious, humble, and respectful of the moment. From reading Woj, whose opinion I've come to trust implicitly over the almost 20 years I've been reading his work, it sounds like Jordan was none of the three. Jordan's competitiveness was legend. He knocked Steve Kerr's teeth out with a forearm shiver in practice. Too bad he can't let it go and age gracefully. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buftex Posted September 14, 2009 Share Posted September 14, 2009 Jordan's competitiveness was legend. He knocked Steve Kerr's teeth out with a forearm shiver in practice. Too bad he can't let it go and age gracefully. Okay, I just watched his speech. Not a great speech, but nowhere near as vindictive as Wojnarowski is making it sound. His comments about being "frozen out" in the all-star game by Magic and Isiash were clearly (if anyone watched) meant as good natured recognition... in fact, if the one legit complaint about the speech, to me, seemed to be that it was full more of "inside jokes" between Jordan and his NBA bretheren, than trying to say "I told you so". It kills me sometimes, we want our athletes to have killer instinct, yet condemn them when they display it out of context of their profession. Jordan is a jock, not a journalist. I think sportwriters sometimes just run out of crap to write, so they create things...can't remember who wrote it (possibly our own John Wawrrow), but the other day, they wrote an article, referencing Terrell Owens' unhappiness with the no-huddle attack, basing it, completely, on a joke Owens made... keeping things in context seems to be a lost art. The day that our athletes are more complex than our journalists, we are in trouble.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lv-Bills Posted September 14, 2009 Share Posted September 14, 2009 Did Lemieux and Orr have an explanation for how Gretzky scored more career points, won more championships and more MVPs than the two of them combined? So your arguement is that Orr was the equivalant of Gretzky while among the 3 guys listed below, there isn't even a debate about who was the best? Sorry, but that is laughable. Player G PPG PTS RPG REB APG ASST Kareem Abdul-Jabbar 1,560 24.6 38,387 11.2 17,440 3.6 5,660 Michael Jordan 1,072 30.1 32,292 6.2 6,672 5.3 5,633 Wilt Chamberlain 1,045 30.1 31,419 22.9 23,924 2.8 4,643 Ummm, yeah, Lemieux's argument would be cancer.....twice. Lemiuex was just as dominant, and a lot of times, moreso, than Wayne when healthy. If Lemiuex wasn't injury prone (which cancer is a good excuse), he would own most of hockey's records, IMO........easily. I believe he is still #1 in PPG, but I'm guessing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dean Posted September 14, 2009 Share Posted September 14, 2009 Ummm, yeah, Lemieux's argument would be cancer.....twice. Lemiuex was just as dominant, and a lot of times, moreso, than Wayne when healthy. If Lemiuex wasn't injury prone (which cancer is a good excuse), he would own most of hockey's records, IMO........easily. I believe he is still #1 in PPG, but I'm guessing. Didn't Mario also engage in other aspects of the game, like checking for example? Wayne was simply outstanding, but he was allowed to hide and stay away from much physical action. I think Mario was a more complete hockey player, but Gretzky had the better career, to be sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bmwolf21 Posted September 14, 2009 Share Posted September 14, 2009 Didn't Mario also engage in other aspects of the game, like checking for example? Wayne was simply outstanding, but he was allowed to hide and stay away from much physical action. I think Mario was a more complete hockey player, but Gretzky had the better career, to be sure. Not that I recall. He was big enough to, but I seem to remember him being a similar finesse scorer. Plus his ailments - cancer twice, a herniated disc, hip problems, and back issues so bad that he had to have people tie his skates and help him get his leg up over the boards to get on the ice, so I don't think he was banging bodies too much. IIRC one of the reasons he retired the first time was the physical pounding he was taking in the clutch-and-grab era. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PushthePile Posted September 14, 2009 Share Posted September 14, 2009 Michael Jordan's speech was just fine. His supposed arrogance during it, is being hyped up by detractors and those looking for a story. Is it possible to have any event today where someone in the media isn't telling us we should be offended? Am I a fan of Jordan? Not particularly considering how many times he beat my Knicks, but the guy was talking from the heart. Some of the people Wojnarowski is sticking up for are friends of Jordan. Public speaking has never been Jordan's strong suit, despite all of his experience. Poor article and depiction from a credible writer, IMO. Honestly, if you get a chance to watch it beginning to end, do it. He is very gracious and sincere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dean Posted September 14, 2009 Share Posted September 14, 2009 Not that I recall. He was big enough to, but I seem to remember him being a similar finesse scorer. Plus his ailments - cancer twice, a herniated disc, hip problems, and back issues so bad that he had to have people tie his skates and help him get his leg up over the boards to get on the ice, so I don't think he was banging bodies too much. IIRC one of the reasons he retired the first time was the physical pounding he was taking in the clutch-and-grab era. Don't get me wrong, I'm not suggesting Mario was a banger. But he did throw the occasional check and I can't remember him hiding along the boards while the action was taking place at the other end of the ice. EDIT: And Mario did take his share of abuse, as you noted. Wayne was usually left alone by the checkers...and of course, he was hard to hit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bmwolf21 Posted September 14, 2009 Share Posted September 14, 2009 Don't get me wrong, I'm not suggesting Mario was a banger. But he did throw the occasional check and I can't remember him hiding along the boards while the action was taking place at the other end of the ice. EDIT: And Mario did take his share of abuse, as you noted. Wayne was usually left alone by the checkers...and of course, he was hard to hit. I don't know, Dean. I saw him play at the Aud a couple times, and I remember after the first game walking out of there shaking my head at how much of a perimeter game he and Jagr played. They were fantastic scorers and playmakers, and played great together. But neither one wanted anything to do with any contact. This was probably 15 years ago, so my recollection could be a little hazy, but I don't remember Mario ever being in the thick of it or banging around the net. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dean Posted September 14, 2009 Share Posted September 14, 2009 I don't know, Dean. I saw him play at the Aud a couple times, and I remember after the first game walking out of there shaking my head at how much of a perimeter game he and Jagr played. They were fantastic scorers and playmakers, and played great together. But neither one wanted anything to do with any contact.This was probably 15 years ago, so my recollection could be a little hazy, but I don't remember Mario ever being in the thick of it or banging around the net. I watched the Pens quite a bit, back then. Our recollections differ, I guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bmwolf21 Posted September 14, 2009 Share Posted September 14, 2009 I watched the Pens quite a bit, back then. Our recollections differ, I guess. Could be. This was well before the advent on the intrawebs or Center Ice, so I only saw him a couple nights a year. He may have not been as much of a perimeter player as I saw in a couple games in Buffalo. I'll have to defer to some of our older posters who have seen more of him to confirm or deny whether the other areas of his game well more well-rounded than 99's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tcali Posted September 14, 2009 Share Posted September 14, 2009 Didn't Mario also engage in other aspects of the game, like checking for example? Wayne was simply outstanding, but he was allowed to hide and stay away from much physical action. I think Mario was a more complete hockey player, but Gretzky had the better career, to be sure. well--whether or not being well rounded is important is a difficult argument. Some players are so great that they would be wasting their toime being well rounded--as it would take away from their greatness.-Hell if we reeeeeeeeeeeaally wanted OJ and Jim Brown to be well-rounded we would have had them on special teams(OK extreme example to make a point..but I think you catch my drift) that being said--I think Gretzky,Lemieux and Orr were on a higher level than any other players. They completely dominated the sport. Not just starring;not just spectacular--but complete domination. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted September 14, 2009 Share Posted September 14, 2009 well--whether or not being well rounded is important is a difficult argument. Some players are so great that they would be wasting their toime being well rounded--as it would take away from their greatness.-Hell if we reeeeeeeeeeeaally wanted OJ and Jim Brown to be well-rounded we would have had them on special teams(OK extreme example to make a point..but I think you catch my drift) that being said--I think Gretzky,Lemieux and Orr were on a higher level than any other players. They completely dominated the sport. Not just starring;not just spectacular--but complete domination. I am kinda partial to Orr... He was a freakin' D-man! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim in Anchorage Posted September 14, 2009 Share Posted September 14, 2009 Ummm, yeah, Lemieux's argument would be cancer.....twice. Lemiuex was just as dominant, and a lot of times, moreso, than Wayne when healthy. If Lemiuex wasn't injury prone (which cancer is a good excuse), he would own most of hockey's records, IMO........easily. I believe he is still #1 in PPG, but I'm guessing. Could a, would a should a. $1 get ya a coffee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Poojer Posted September 14, 2009 Author Share Posted September 14, 2009 i can see where people may view it as him disparaging others, i didn't see that...i think he was just speaking from memory and calling out all those that drove him harder. he didn't have a canned speech, he was pretty much all over the place. I thought his Bryon Russell mention was a nice call out. It may not have been the best thought out speech to avoid any controversy, but i think he thought he was paying tribute to everyone he mentioned....perhaps i am jaded, but I really liked his speech Pretty good reaction to his speech here: http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_ylt=Aoly...o&type=lgns Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuckincincy Posted September 14, 2009 Share Posted September 14, 2009 Did they call a foul on Stockton for looking at Jordan as he approached the podium? Of course not. Jordan took four steps, double dribbled, pushed off, palmed, and the legend and the tv ratings continues on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wooderson Posted September 14, 2009 Share Posted September 14, 2009 I'm not sure there is another sport in which one player was without argument the greatest...all due respect to Wilt ,Oscar and a few others. Tiger Woods. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bullpen Posted September 14, 2009 Share Posted September 14, 2009 Tiger Woods. T. Bruschi. What? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KD in CA Posted September 14, 2009 Share Posted September 14, 2009 Tiger Woods. Saw a stat that yesterday was the tenth time he's won a tourney by 8 or more strokes. Incredible. Only about a hundred guys ever have won ten tournaments by any amount. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quester74 Posted September 14, 2009 Share Posted September 14, 2009 I'll throw a few more names out there for consideration.. Richard Petty, Pele, Michael Phelps & Phil Taylor (Ok, darts isn't really a sport.. but, he is pretty damned dominant at it.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KD in CA Posted September 14, 2009 Share Posted September 14, 2009 That Roger Federer guys seems to win his share of tennis tournaments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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