Tcali Posted July 22, 2009 Share Posted July 22, 2009 Cribbs was more than very good...in my cognizant Bills lifetime (1972-on) I would rank him behind only OJ Simpson, and pretty equal with Thurman. People who look solely at stats to judge a player aren't getting the whole picture. The way Cribbs was handled in Buffalo (in fact the way the whole squad was handled) by the owner in the early 1980's is a big part of the reason that many who have been around a little longer weren't losing any sleep at the prospect of Mr Wilson not making it to the Hall Of Fame. Those were the best teams the Bills had since the AFL Championship days, but the owner pretty much alienated everyone involved. People remember Cribbs taking his services to the USFL, but he only did it, after fulfilling his contractal obligation to the Bills (playing his ass off his entire lame duck season), because he could. He was talanted enough to have that option. Guys like Smerlas and Haslett pissed and moaned about their salaries constantly, but people forget that. Cribbs went to the USFL, played three pro football seasons in two, led the USFL in rushing, and then, when the USFL folded, had to return to the Bills, if he wanted to play. He was beat up at that point, but played hard, the limited amount of time he was given the field. Cribbs was sort of a pre-curser to guys like Thurman, a great combination of speed, strenghth, football intelligence... beyond being a hell of a runner, he was a great receiver too, in an era where pass catching RB's wasn't very common. Cribbs won't go on the Wall of Fame, because you can't put everyone there, and, because as great as he was, he didn't play long enough for the Bills to belong there...but make no mistake, he was a great running back, not just good... cribbs was an excellent rb...i would put him slightly below thurman though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tcali Posted July 22, 2009 Share Posted July 22, 2009 I never saw Cribbs play, but I really am shocked about how a running back could fumble 44 times in 64 games. That would simply not be tolerated by any team in today's NFL no matter how talented he was running the ball... I am sure he must have been a pretty good back, but being able to count on him fumbling the ball more than once every 6 quarters is just ridiculous...for his career, Cribbs fumbled 51 times in 102 NFL games, while Thomas fumbled 50 times in 182 games.... Apparently, fumbling by running backs was quite common back in the late 70's and 80's....The all time RB fumbles leaders are Franco Harris(90), Tony Dorsett(90) and Walter Payton(86)....imagine if those guys played in today's NFL but couldn't get their fumbling under control...would they have had the careers they had, or would coaches have benched them for not being able to hold onto the ball? Interesting thoughts on how eras are so different... diffrent rules..half or more of those fumbles would now be caused by the ground and overruled Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
San Jose Bills Fan Posted July 22, 2009 Share Posted July 22, 2009 I vividly remember Joe Cribbs as I started following the Bills seriously in about 1968-69. He was a very good player. I liked him a lot. He was a team player, even swallowing his ego to block for #1 pick Greg Bell after he got back from the other league. He was an all-around back and one of my favorites. That being said, I think it's a bit insulting to even suggest he was in Thurman's league. Not close IMO. To me that's roughly like saying Joe Ferguson was nearly as good as Jim Kelly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bufcomments Posted July 22, 2009 Share Posted July 22, 2009 Cribbs was very good Just fumbled too much He had 2 monster years, in 80 he had a Thurman type year. But hes in my top 5 Bills HB's, excuse the Cookie omission, I never saw him play... OJ THurman Cribbs Curtis Brown Roland Hooks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SouthernMan Posted July 22, 2009 Share Posted July 22, 2009 Actually, I was almost going to say he was better than Thurman... but I didn't want to go that far with things. I think people forget how amazing Cribbs was. If the team had ever won anything in his time, I think he would be held in higher regard by Bills fans... he was really a great football player, who did most everything very well, like Thurman. His yardage came in a more traditional offensive set, which makes what he did all the more impressive to me... Jump to the 5:57 mark, for a little taste: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BBETnH4rB_Y Thanks for that. Cribbs was a damn good back. Unfortunately for him, came to the Bills shortly before they experienced one of their many crashes, this time following the departure of Chuck Knox. Thurman had the benefit of arriving just in time to catch and be part of the wave of an up and coming team, stocked with talent. I remember thinking when first I first witnessed Thurman, that he reminded me of Cribbs. After seeing the Youtube clip, it reinforced my recollection. If Cribbs had a red helmet and # 34, I'd think it was Thurman. Very similar in running style - the way they cut, low to the ground, great balance, quickly hitting the holes. Both backs were also intelligent. I didn't remember, and was suprised to hear in the Cribbs Youtube montage, that he caught a 52 passes that year. Cribbs is somewhat forgotten and overshadowed by the legacies of OJ and Thurman, but he was an extremely good back, who unfortunately was the victim of a tightwad hard-ass GM (Stew Barber), upheaval in the coaching ranks, and an overall bad front office in the early 80s. Like Jim Kelly, he seized the opportunity from the fledgling USFL. It's sometimes forgotten that it was the dissention and disorganized state of the Bills in the early 80s that prompted Kelly to opt for the USFL. But, who knows? If things hadn't played out the way they did, the Bills might not have ever gotten Thurman. Or for that matter, Cornelius Bennett, who arrived as the result of a trade involving Cribbs' successor, Greg Bell. There are some glaringly obvious omissions on the Bills WOF - most noteably Saban, Cookie, and Cribbs - sadly, none of whom do I believe will ever be enshrined. BTW - anyone rememer who the d-bag announcer was who recently (last year maybe) referred to the Bills' Wall of Fame as the "Ring of Honor". I nearly puked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuckincincy Posted July 22, 2009 Share Posted July 22, 2009 I never saw Cribbs play, but I really am shocked about how a running back could fumble 44 times in 64 games. That would simply not be tolerated by any team in today's NFL no matter how talented he was running the ball... I am sure he must have been a pretty good back, but being able to count on him fumbling the ball more than once every 6 quarters is just ridiculous...for his career, Cribbs fumbled 51 times in 102 NFL games, while Thomas fumbled 50 times in 182 games.... Apparently, fumbling by running backs was quite common back in the late 70's and 80's....The all time RB fumbles leaders are Franco Harris(90), Tony Dorsett(90) and Walter Payton(86)....imagine if those guys played in today's NFL but couldn't get their fumbling under control...would they have had the careers they had, or would coaches have benched them for not being able to hold onto the ball? Interesting thoughts on how eras are so different... Years ago, defenses could spear, head slap, head butt, fling elbows and so on. I'm a fan of Cribbs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dollars 2 donuts Posted July 22, 2009 Share Posted July 22, 2009 Cribbs was more than very good...in my cognizant Bills lifetime (1972-on) I would rank him behind only OJ Simpson, and pretty equal with Thurman. People who look solely at stats to judge a player aren't getting the whole picture. The way Cribbs was handled in Buffalo (in fact the way the whole squad was handled) by the owner in the early 1980's is a big part of the reason that many who have been around a little longer weren't losing any sleep at the prospect of Mr Wilson not making it to the Hall Of Fame. Those were the best teams the Bills had since the AFL Championship days, but the owner pretty much alienated everyone involved. People remember Cribbs taking his services to the USFL, but he only did it, after fulfilling his contractal obligation to the Bills (playing his ass off his entire lame duck season), because he could. He was talanted enough to have that option. Guys like Smerlas and Haslett pissed and moaned about their salaries constantly, but people forget that. Cribbs went to the USFL, played three pro football seasons in two, led the USFL in rushing, and then, when the USFL folded, had to return to the Bills, if he wanted to play. He was beat up at that point, but played hard, the limited amount of time he was given the field. Cribbs was sort of a pre-curser to guys like Thurman, a great combination of speed, strenghth, football intelligence... beyond being a hell of a runner, he was a great receiver too, in an era where pass catching RB's wasn't very common. Cribbs won't go on the Wall of Fame, because you can't put everyone there, and, because as great as he was, he didn't play long enough for the Bills to belong there...but make no mistake, he was a great running back, not just good... Well said, buftex. I doubt he will go on the Wall, as well, and I was mad at him when he left and the way he left, but if this guy had stayed AND if we had a stable organization during that time he would have given us more great moments and numbers. Just to breakdown from the link provided early in this thread: In the 54 games of his REAL career in Buffalo (not after the USFL) from 80-83 Cribbs scored 35 TDs (20 run, 15 pass) and had 5600 plus yards in offense for us - about 105 yards per game (75 run, 30 pass), and caught 162 passes, twice eclipsing the 50 reception mark for a season, which I am quite sure Thurmal didn't even do in his first 4 years. And, some still believe that there was a lingering question of whether the Bills intentionally limited his use during the last part of a season so as to avoid paying him his performance bonuses; but take that for what it is worth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tennesseeboy Posted July 22, 2009 Share Posted July 22, 2009 Respectfully disagree... Me too. I put Cribbs closer to Bills running backs like Bobby Burnett (AFL Rookie of the year) and Wray Carlton. I see three tiers of very good Bills running backs. the Simpson Tier, the Gilchrist Thomas tier and the Cribbs, Carlton, Burnett group. I believe putting Cribbs on the wall before Gilchrist would be a terrible thing. Well terrible in the context of a Buffalo Bills world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted July 22, 2009 Share Posted July 22, 2009 ...Cribbs was a damn good back. Unfortunately for him, came to the Bills shortly before they experienced one of their many crashes, this time following the departure of Chuck Knox. ... Um, Cribbs was a 2nd round pick by Knox in 1980 so I'm not sure what you mean by him arriving following Knox's departure. Helluva back, though. Couldn't agree more. GO BILLS!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bullpen Posted July 22, 2009 Share Posted July 22, 2009 Like it has been said here already Cribbs, in my opinion, falls under the "very good" category versus "wall of fame" material. Also: Cribbs isn't on the Wall of Fame, because we aren't the Denver Broncos... I swear they put it seems like they put every friggin guy who ever made a tackle for a loss or scored a single touchdown on thier ring of fame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted July 22, 2009 Share Posted July 22, 2009 Despite the criminal record, OJ has GOT to be the best RB the Bills ever had. Thurman is second, and I put Cribbs in the pack with the likes of Travis Henry and the like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SouthernMan Posted July 22, 2009 Share Posted July 22, 2009 Um, Cribbs was a 2nd round pick by Knox in 1980 so I'm not sure what you mean by him arriving following Knox's departure. Helluva back, though. Couldn't agree more. GO BILLS!!! Trouble with comprehension, I see. Maybe it could have been expressed a little more clearly, but try grasping the context before you jump down my throat. As stated in the post, the "crash" (not Cribbs) came following the departure of Knox. I'm sure you've memorized every Bills draft, including the 1980 season, so God bless you for setting me straight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-Gun10 Posted July 22, 2009 Share Posted July 22, 2009 Chris Brown said no one is getting on this year because no one genereated anough votes maybe next year in two years moulds is available for it i personally think van miller should be on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SouthernMan Posted July 22, 2009 Share Posted July 22, 2009 Chris Brown said no one is getting on this year because no one genereated anough votes maybe next year in two years moulds is available for it i personally think van miller should be on. I was thinking Rob Johnson, who nearly got us a win in the Music City Miracle. Bravo. Well done Rob. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Adams Posted July 22, 2009 Share Posted July 22, 2009 Well said, buftex. I doubt he will go on the Wall, as well, and I was mad at him when he left and the way he left, but if this guy had stayed AND if we had a stable organization during that time he would have given us more great moments and numbers. Just to breakdown from the link provided early in this thread: In the 54 games of his REAL career in Buffalo (not after the USFL) from 80-83 Cribbs scored 35 TDs (20 run, 15 pass) and had 5600 plus yards in offense for us - about 105 yards per game (75 run, 30 pass), and caught 162 passes, twice eclipsing the 50 reception mark for a season, which I am quite sure Thurmal didn't even do in his first 4 years. Your "quite sure" feeling would be dead wrong. Thurman had 60 and 62 reception seasons in his first 4 years...and a 49. In those same 4 years (including his first part-time year), TT had 39 TDs, and 6800 yards from scrimmage. So even in his first 4 years, Cribbs...as good as he was in that stretch...was not as good as TT in any category. After those 4 years of course, TT was a top back for another 4 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted July 22, 2009 Share Posted July 22, 2009 Trouble with comprehension, I see. Maybe it could have been expressed a little more clearly, but try grasping the context before you jump down my throat. As stated in the post, the "crash" (not Cribbs) came following the departure of Knox. I'm sure you've memorized every Bills draft, including the 1980 season, so God bless you for setting me straight. Relax. Nobody's jumping down anyone's throat. If I misunderstood your meaning, my apologies. But go ahead and insult my reading comprehension and keep on condescending as well. GO BILLS!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker Posted July 22, 2009 Share Posted July 22, 2009 i personally think van miller should be on. Totally agree. Pat McGroder and Eddie A. set the precedent for non-player inductees...and Van should be up there, without a doubt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lori Posted July 22, 2009 Share Posted July 22, 2009 Chris Brown said no one is getting on this year because no one genereated anough votes maybe next year in two years moulds is available for it i personally think van miller should be on. Chris Brown is wrong, then. There are no individual Wall honorees because the team wants the spotlight to be on the 50th-Anniversary squad this season, not any one player. That's direct from a member of the selection committee, which Brown is not on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJ (not THAT RJ) Posted July 22, 2009 Share Posted July 22, 2009 We should all relax, of course, since we are all Bills fans. But no one should criticize others for condescension who has begun a message board post with "Um...." since that is the single greatest sign of snotty condescension that internet communication can offer. Go Bills! Relax. Nobody's jumping down anyone's throat. If I misunderstood your meaning, my apologies. But go ahead and insult my reading comprehension and keep on condescending as well. GO BILLS!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted July 22, 2009 Share Posted July 22, 2009 We should all relax, of course, since we are all Bills fans. But no one should criticize others for condescension who has begun a message board post with "Um...." since that is the single greatest sign of snotty condescension that internet communication can offer. Go Bills! Um, I don't think so. GO BILLS!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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