Billistic Posted July 21, 2009 Share Posted July 21, 2009 This is test of defensive football knowledge, and an open challenge to the Stadium Wall "inner circle" jerk: Dan, Steely Dan, San Jose, THE Dean, K-9 (woof), Sage, VOR, THE Senator and any/all who throw in with these "guys". Got anything? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billistic Posted July 21, 2009 Author Share Posted July 21, 2009 OK, to rephrase the question: Why did Warren Sapp fall off the map after he left the Bucs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvermike Posted July 21, 2009 Share Posted July 21, 2009 http://subscribers.footballguys.com/2009/0...el_idpguide.php Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billistic Posted July 21, 2009 Author Share Posted July 21, 2009 http://subscribers.footballguys.com/2009/0...el_idpguide.php Classic citation! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KD in CA Posted July 21, 2009 Share Posted July 21, 2009 Dan, Steely Dan, San Jose, THE Dean, K-9 (woof), Sage, VOR, THE Senator and any/all who throw in with these "guys". Got anything? Boy, the 'inner circle' has fallen a long way on this board from the old days! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuckincincy Posted July 21, 2009 Share Posted July 21, 2009 Boy, the 'inner circle' has fallen a long way on this board from the old days! You have violated the troll shunning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billistic Posted July 21, 2009 Author Share Posted July 21, 2009 You have violated the troll shunning. How are things in the bunker? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KD in CA Posted July 21, 2009 Share Posted July 21, 2009 You have violated the troll shunning. Oops...sorry. Couldn't resist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Posted July 21, 2009 Share Posted July 21, 2009 http://subscribers.footballguys.com/2009/0...el_idpguide.php Excellent read. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted July 21, 2009 Share Posted July 21, 2009 This is test of defensive football knowledge, and an open challenge to the Stadium Wall "inner circle" jerk: Dan, Steely Dan, San Jose, THE Dean, K-9 (woof), Sage, VOR, THE Senator and any/all who throw in with these "guys". Got anything? http://www.naturesongs.com/cricket1.wav GO BILLS!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfan89 Posted July 22, 2009 Share Posted July 22, 2009 Well 3-4 defensive lines are counted more so as run suffers to hold the line and free up the outside line backers to blitz and the inside line backers to rack up the tackles. Nose Tackles are suppose to hold the interior of the o-line and free up those middle line backers, while DE's are trying to hold the edges of the offensive line and keep the run game in check. See DE's are just bigger in the 3-4 thats why Tyson Jackson was drafted so high. They aren't needed to pass rush because the defense counts more so on the OLB's to rack up the sacks. Now the better 3-4 DE's like Arron Smith and Richard Seymour are strong enough and fast enough to help the pass rush and get 8-10 sacks a year which is a high total for 3-4 guys. In the 4-3 the DE position is where most of the pass rush comes from so their sack totals are intrinsically higher. In the 4-3 they have 2 DT's who are designed to disrupt the pocket which leads to more sacks for the defensive line and less double teams for the DE's. So in a 4-3 DE's are lighter and faster more emphasis on pass rush and less use for run stuffers. As for Bruce thats just how good he was he was just a beast. I am sure there is more of an explanation than that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WVUFootball29 Posted July 22, 2009 Share Posted July 22, 2009 http://subscribers.footballguys.com/2009/0...el_idpguide.php Best read of the month so far Mike, thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewildrabbit Posted July 22, 2009 Share Posted July 22, 2009 Well 3-4 defensive lines are counted more so as run suffers to hold the line and free up the outside line backers to blitz and the inside line backers to rack up the tackles. Nose Tackles are suppose to hold the interior of the o-line and free up those middle line backers, while DE's are trying to hold the edges of the offensive line and keep the run game in check. See DE's are just bigger in the 3-4 thats why Tyson Jackson was drafted so high. They aren't needed to pass rush because the defense counts more so on the OLB's to rack up the sacks. Now the better 3-4 DE's like Arron Smith and Richard Seymour are strong enough and fast enough to help the pass rush and get 8-10 sacks a year which is a high total for 3-4 guys. In the 4-3 the DE position is where most of the pass rush comes from so their sack totals are intrinsically higher. In the 4-3 they have 2 DT's who are designed to disrupt the pocket which leads to more sacks for the defensive line and less double teams for the DE's. So in a 4-3 DE's are lighter and faster more emphasis on pass rush and less use for run stuffers. As for Bruce thats just how good he was he was just a beast. I am sure there is more of an explanation than that. I'd think it would really depend on what style of 3-4 4-3 defensive scheme you run. The 3-4 is a more versatile style of defense IMO. where you can line up a OLB on the line of scrimmage next to the DE and drop the DE into coverage on the RB or TE and rush the LB,or visa versa. The Steeler's run a 3-4 and Ravens a 4-3 but they call Suggs a LB so they don't have to pay him DE money. The Eagles run a 4-3 but it is totally different then the defense the Bills run. The Bills run a lame style of 4-3,meaning the DE's and DT's need to be smaller, quicker with more ability to shed blocks and penetrate vs bigger more powerful linemen that can bull rush the O linemen into the backfield. The Tampa 2 the Bills run tend to get overwhelmed against good running teams, the ravens would own the Bills 9 outta 10 games. The Tampa 2 is defined by not blitzing and just rushing with the front 4, bend but don't break style which is why I can't stand it, plus the fact that it stinks at stopping the run. If the 4-3 is so much better at allowing DE's to get sacks, then why does Julius Peppers want to go to a 3-4? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted July 22, 2009 Share Posted July 22, 2009 Walt Corey may have been the worst defensive coordinator in the history of football. I have never seen a coach with more talent struggled to get the most of his personnel. The fact that Bruce was able to put up the #s he did in a 3-4 and playing next to Jeff Wright (who might not even start on this Bills, great mullet tho) is a tribute to how great he truly was. For as great as Reggie White was, could you imagine the #s Bruce would have put up playing in Buddy Ryan's scheme on that talented d-line? I still hate Walt Corey and his stupid swizzle stick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
/dev/null Posted July 22, 2009 Share Posted July 22, 2009 Boy, the 'inner circle' has fallen a long way on this board from the old days! the "inner circle" is now the "inner circle jerks" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dean Posted July 22, 2009 Share Posted July 22, 2009 http://subscribers.footballguys.com/2009/0...el_idpguide.php Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SageAgainstTheMachine Posted July 22, 2009 Share Posted July 22, 2009 This is test of defensive football knowledge, and an open challenge to the Stadium Wall "inner circle" jerk: Dan, Steely Dan, San Jose, THE Dean, K-9 (woof), Sage, VOR, THE Senator and any/all who throw in with these "guys". Got anything? Waitaminute...I'm in the inner circle jerk? I thought I was the douchey college kid... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewildrabbit Posted July 22, 2009 Share Posted July 22, 2009 Walt Corey may have been the worst defensive coordinator in the history of football. I have never seen a coach with more talent struggled to get the most of his personnel. The fact that Bruce was able to put up the #s he did in a 3-4 and playing next to Jeff Wright (who might not even start on this Bills, great mullet tho) is a tribute to how great he truly was. For as great as Reggie White was, could you imagine the #s Bruce would have put up playing in Buddy Ryan's scheme on that talented d-line? I still hate Walt Corey and his stupid swizzle stick. I don't know what defense you were watching but the one I saw had Bruce Smith running the arc every play, he was the Bills pass rusher, period. I would see Bruce run around the tackle only to see the RB pop through the hole he left behind, teams would run right at Bruce only to see Talley fill the gap and make the tackle. In Buffalo's 90's scheme 3-4 the LBers were the run stuffers and Bruce was the rusher. To quantify this look at the stats,in 1990 Talley lead the team with tackles at 123, Smith was second with 101, Bennett third with 96,Conlan fourth with 93 at LILB. Bruce Smith had Daryl Talley right behind him at ROLB to stop the run and allow Smith to purely rush, I don't ever recall watching Tally blitz and Smith stay back. Bruce Smith got all the attention and accolades and Talley was the unsung hero, and one of my favorite Bills players. Smith 19 sacks-Tally 4 sacks-Bennett 4 sacks-Conlan 1 sack- NT Jeff Wright 5 sacks- LDE Leon Seals 4 sacks- In 1991 Smith was injured and had 1.5 sacks in 5 GS,Bennett took up the slack as the rusher with 9 sacks that year.Conlan lead the team with tackles 122 and Talley second with 117. Smith played 4 years in a 4-3 in Washington RDE and got 10- 5-9-5, 29 sacks in those 4 years Reggie White 15 years in the NFL- Bruce Smith 19 years in the NFL. Smith had to play an additional 4 years to catch White and beat his sack total Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justnzane Posted July 22, 2009 Share Posted July 22, 2009 Waitaminute...I'm in the inner circle jerk? I thought I was the douchey college kid... You still are Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steely Dan Posted July 22, 2009 Share Posted July 22, 2009 http://subscribers.footballguys.com/2009/0...el_idpguide.php Excellent source. Boy, the 'inner circle' has fallen a long way on this board from the old days! I certainly wouldn't want to join any inner circle that would have me for a member. Well 3-4 defensive lines are counted more so as run suffers to hold the line and free up the outside line backers to blitz and the inside line backers to rack up the tackles. Nose Tackles are suppose to hold the interior of the o-line and free up those middle line backers, while DE's are trying to hold the edges of the offensive line and keep the run game in check. See DE's are just bigger in the 3-4 thats why Tyson Jackson was drafted so high. They aren't needed to pass rush because the defense counts more so on the OLB's to rack up the sacks. Now the better 3-4 DE's like Arron Smith and Richard Seymour are strong enough and fast enough to help the pass rush and get 8-10 sacks a year which is a high total for 3-4 guys. In the 4-3 the DE position is where most of the pass rush comes from so their sack totals are intrinsically higher. In the 4-3 they have 2 DT's who are designed to disrupt the pocket which leads to more sacks for the defensive line and less double teams for the DE's. So in a 4-3 DE's are lighter and faster more emphasis on pass rush and less use for run stuffers. As for Bruce thats just how good he was he was just a beast. I am sure there is more of an explanation than that. That's where the argument begins and ends with who was better, Reggie White or Bruce Smith? Too many people don't get that and attribute White as being better. They could move Bruce to NT and he was just as effective. They put him at NT for a play against Miami one time and their C (who's name I forget now) looked up and saw Bruce who smiled and said hi and the guy dropped his jaw and was so unnerved he got a false start penalty. I'd think it would really depend on what style of 3-4 4-3 defensive scheme you run. The 3-4 is a more versatile style of defense IMO. where you can line up a OLB on the line of scrimmage next to the DE and drop the DE into coverage on the RB or TE and rush the LB,or visa versa. The Steeler's run a 3-4 and Ravens a 4-3 but they call Suggs a LB so they don't have to pay him DE money. The Eagles run a 4-3 but it is totally different then the defense the Bills run. The Bills run a lame style of 4-3,meaning the DE's and DT's need to be smaller, quicker with more ability to shed blocks and penetrate vs bigger more powerful linemen that can bull rush the O linemen into the backfield. The Tampa 2 the Bills run tend to get overwhelmed against good running teams, the ravens would own the Bills 9 outta 10 games. The Tampa 2 is defined by not blitzing and just rushing with the front 4, bend but don't break style which is why I can't stand it, plus the fact that it stinks at stopping the run. If the 4-3 is so much better at allowing DE's to get sacks, then why does Julius Peppers want to go to a 3-4? They started out thinking that way but realized it wasn't working so well and that's why they traded for Stroud. IMO Waitaminute...I'm in the inner circle jerk? I thought I was the douchey college kid... What makes you think that has changed at all? I don't know what defense you were watching but the one I saw had Bruce Smith running the arc every play, he was the Bills pass rusher, period. I would see Bruce run around the tackle only to see the RB pop through the hole he left behind, teams would run right at Bruce only to see Tally fill the gap and make the tackle. In Buffalo's 90's scheme 3-4 the LBers were the run stuffers and Bruce was the rusher. To quantify this look at the stats,in 1990 Tally lead the team with tackles at 123, Smith was second with 101, Bennett third with 96,Conlan fourth with 93 at LILB. Bruce Smith had Daryl Tally right behind him at ROLB to stop the run and allow Smith to purely rush I don't ever recall watching Tally blitz. Bruce Smith got all the attention and accolades and Tally was the unsung hero. Smith 19 sacks-Tally 4 sacks-Bennett 4 sacks-Conlan 1 sack- NT Jeff Wright 5 sacks- LDE Leon Seals 4 sacks As his career progressed he got better at overpursuing on draw plays and was much better at stopping the run. He really was an all around DE. JMO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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