BillsVet Posted March 18, 2009 Share Posted March 18, 2009 Reading all of these posts in favor of acquiring Jay Cutler for an unknown price, got me thinking about how absurd it would be for the Bills. I'm not sure if the more intelligent Bills fans think this way, but I can think of at least five reasons not to. 1. Despite his stats, Cutler throws his share of INT's. 18 last season was among league worst in this category. Granted he's young, but QB's with rocket arms tend to force too much and get picked. (Cue a Favre reference) 2. He's been pampered and the center of attention in Denver. A 3 year vet who's started 2.5 seasons, he doesn't have the maturity to handle adversity. That won't change anytime soon. 3. Shanahan's offenses put up points, but he's not going into a Shanahan offense if he goes to Buffalo. 4. His agent Bus Cook has fomented more rebellion among his players, than most agents. It seems he likes being in the news as much as his clients. 5. The price tag, including draft picks and future cap space would be astronomical. McDaniels is attempting to be Belichick Jr in Denver, and will recognize that someone will overpay for a QB. Cutler's trade value, depsite the conflict, will demand a great deal of resources Buffalo should use to build their team. I'm referring to a DE, TE, perhaps an OLB, and OL depth. Don't forget the Bills top 3 DE's are or will be over 30 this season. Stroud is as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lofton80 Posted March 18, 2009 Share Posted March 18, 2009 It isn't happening. I like Cutler, he is tough and this team lacks toughness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
extrahammer Posted March 18, 2009 Share Posted March 18, 2009 For all you Cutlerites, I hope Edwards breaks out this year and throws 30 TDs, goes to the Pro Bowl, and refuses to autograph anything for your children! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richNjoisy Posted March 18, 2009 Share Posted March 18, 2009 Your points are well taken. But even before one gets to the point of considering what one will get out of a traded-for player and what the cost might be comes the skills of the player being replaced. Quite often, the SITUATION one lands in determines how one progresses (or not) in a new job. JP Losman came in after years of unmet expectations of the "veteran" Quarterbacks (Flutie, Johnson, Van Pelt, Bledsoe, Holcomb). Thus, he was given a lot of leeway even after one bad game after another. It reminds me of a line near the end of The Goodbye Girl when Dreyfus exclaims, "I'm the only guy who's trustworthy and I'm taking the blame for all those guys who preceded me!" In other words, Trent Edwards has been given one of the shortest grace periods I've ever seen for a rookie QB and I think he may be the best QB we've had since Kelly. I am not certain of this - the 1st half of the Browns game last year is still a recurring nightmare. But, if I were GM I would not even consider trading for Cutler, given the obvious costs to do so, when I may already have a franchise QB on the team right now. Admittedly, this is probably a make or break year for Trent. Which EVEN THAT may be unfair since it is only his third year in the league. I am hoping beyond hope that the Front Office can find a way to get a decent offensive line in front of him and a decent pass-catching Tight End. With these additional pieces, I think we will finally see what this guy can do. Put points on the board - lots of them. Reading all of these posts in favor of acquiring Jay Cutler for an unknown price, got me thinking about how absurd it would be for the Bills. I'm not sure if the more intelligent Bills fans think this way, but I can think of at least five reasons not to. 1. Despite his stats, Cutler throws his share of INT's. 18 last season was among league worst in this category. Granted he's young, but QB's with rocket arms tend to force too much and get picked. (Cue a Favre reference) 2. He's been pampered and the center of attention in Denver. A 3 year vet who's started 2.5 seasons, he doesn't have the maturity to handle adversity. That won't change anytime soon. 3. Shanahan's offenses put up points, but he's not going into a Shanahan offense if he goes to Buffalo. 4. His agent Bus Cook has fomented more rebellion among his players, than most agents. It seems he likes being in the news as much as his clients. 5. The price tag, including draft picks and future cap space would be astronomical. McDaniels is attempting to be Belichick Jr in Denver, and will recognize that someone will overpay for a QB. Cutler's trade value, depsite the conflict, will demand a great deal of resources Buffalo should use to build their team. I'm referring to a DE, TE, perhaps an OLB, and OL depth. Don't forget the Bills top 3 DE's are or will be over 30 this season. Stroud is as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flbillsfan#1 Posted March 18, 2009 Share Posted March 18, 2009 Reading all of these posts in favor of acquiring Jay Cutler for an unknown price, got me thinking about how absurd it would be for the Bills. I'm not sure if the more intelligent Bills fans think this way, but I can think of at least five reasons not to. 1. Despite his stats, Cutler throws his share of INT's. 18 last season was among league worst in this category. Granted he's young, but QB's with rocket arms tend to force too much and get picked. (Cue a Favre reference) 2. He's been pampered and the center of attention in Denver. A 3 year vet who's started 2.5 seasons, he doesn't have the maturity to handle adversity. That won't change anytime soon. 3. Shanahan's offenses put up points, but he's not going into a Shanahan offense if he goes to Buffalo. 4. His agent Bus Cook has fomented more rebellion among his players, than most agents. It seems he likes being in the news as much as his clients. 5. The price tag, including draft picks and future cap space would be astronomical. McDaniels is attempting to be Belichick Jr in Denver, and will recognize that someone will overpay for a QB. Cutler's trade value, depsite the conflict, will demand a great deal of resources Buffalo should use to build their team. I'm referring to a DE, TE, perhaps an OLB, and OL depth. Don't forget the Bills top 3 DE's are or will be over 30 this season. Stroud is as well. 1. Trent's INT ratio is WORSE than Cutlers. 2. What GOOD QB isn't pampered & the center of attention? 3. He has shown he has the arm strength to play in Buffalo & would put up more points than Trent. 4. Agree. 5. Belichick gave up Cassell & a Vet LB for a #2. I would GLADLY give Denver a #2 for Cuttler & ANY other player & Trent can be his back up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsNYC Posted March 18, 2009 Share Posted March 18, 2009 Cutler is not coming to Buffalo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twist-to-open Posted March 18, 2009 Share Posted March 18, 2009 I think the most important arguement against this guy is that we now have T.O. on our roster. If this guys is too sensitive to handle the reality that he's just like anyone else in the NFL, and is capable of being traded at any given time, then whats gonna happen when he has a bad game and T.O. gets in his face. If he became our starting QB I'd give it to week 3 max that we'd be making the lead story on ESPN on monday and not for what we did on the field and not in a good way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magox Posted March 18, 2009 Share Posted March 18, 2009 1. Trent's INT ratio is WORSE than Cutlers.2. What GOOD QB isn't pampered & the center of attention? 3. He has shown he has the arm strength to play in Buffalo & would put up more points than Trent. 4. Agree. 5. Belichick gave up Cassell & a Vet LB for a #2. I would GLADLY give Denver a #2 for Cuttler & ANY other player & Trent can be his back up. where do you get your information from? Cutler int % 2.9 Edwards int % 2.7 career int % cutler %3.03 Edwards %2.79 http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/statistics?s...2&year=2008 The year before they were the same. But to continue BillsVets reasons, which I believe the most important reasons havn't even been mentioned is : 6) His clutch performances. It was clear, that all the Broncos had to do was win their last three games of the season, and they are in the playoffs. The last three games of the year, when they needed him most, he didn't have one game out of the three where he had a qb rating of over 75. 2 td's 4 int's. 7) Critical junctures of the game he throws disastrous interceptions, ex. Buffalo and Chargers 8) hasn't produced a winning season, in arguably the weakest division of all of football. Considering the things that you mentioned BillsVet, there isn't anything that compels me to want to go after him at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramius Posted March 18, 2009 Share Posted March 18, 2009 where do you get your information from? Cutler int % 2.9 Edwards int % 2.7 career int % cutler %3.03 Edwards %2.79 http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/statistics?s...2&year=2008 The year before they were the same. But to continue BillsVets reasons, which I believe the most important reasons havn't even been mentioned is : 6) His clutch performances. It was clear, that all the Broncos had to do was win their last three games of the season, and they are in the playoffs. The last three games of the year, when they needed him most, he didn't have one game out of the three where he had a qb rating of over 75. 2 td's 4 int's. 7) Critical junctures of the game he throws disastrous interceptions, ex. Buffalo and Chargers 8) hasn't produced a winning season, in arguably the weakest division of all of football. Considering the things that you mentioned BillsVet, there isn't anything that compels me to want to go after him at all. The worst part about the Jay Cutler induced 3 game losing streak at the end of last season was when he allowed 30, 30, and 52 points to the opposition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magox Posted March 18, 2009 Share Posted March 18, 2009 The worst part about the Jay Cutler induced 3 game losing streak at the end of last season was when he allowed 30, 30, and 52 points to the opposition. No one doubts that the defense of the Broncos suck, but if you read my post ramius, he had 3 of his less stellar games of the year when they needed him. Another words, he played well below his standards when the pressure was on. Capiche? here is another one for all of you who think it is the Broncos that are handling this wrong According to FoxSports.com's John Czarnecki, Jay Cutler's agent was "begging" the Broncos to trade Jay Cutler before the Matt Cassel talks even happened. Denver said absolutely not at the time, then entertained the Cassel offers. The "Czar" is yet another writer to point the finger at agent Bus Cook for this entire mess. The Cutler side says it's not about money, but we suspect they want a new contract. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alphadawg7 Posted March 18, 2009 Share Posted March 18, 2009 where do you get your information from? Cutler int % 2.9 Edwards int % 2.7 career int % cutler %3.03 Edwards %2.79 http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/statistics?s...2&year=2008 The year before they were the same. But to continue BillsVets reasons, which I believe the most important reasons havn't even been mentioned is : 6) His clutch performances. It was clear, that all the Broncos had to do was win their last three games of the season, and they are in the playoffs. The last three games of the year, when they needed him most, he didn't have one game out of the three where he had a qb rating of over 75. 2 td's 4 int's. 7) Critical junctures of the game he throws disastrous interceptions, ex. Buffalo and Chargers 8) hasn't produced a winning season, in arguably the weakest division of all of football. Considering the things that you mentioned BillsVet, there isn't anything that compels me to want to go after him at all. Why do you ignore Trents fumbles? He had 9 fumbles in 12.5 games! He lost 5...thats 15 turnovers in 12.5 games, and if you put that into a full season that is over 19 turnovers... Cutler had 2 fumbles...so he had 20 total turnovers... Cutler 616 pass attempts, 20 turnovers...thats 1 for every 30.8 attempts. Edwards 245 pass attempts, 15 turnovers...thats 1 for every 16.33 attempts EDWARDS TURNS THE BALL OVER NEARLY DOUBLE THE RATE OF CUTLER, and thats not including his other 4 fumbles that werent lost... So Cutler, turns the ball over 46.98% LESS despite being way more aggressive in throwing the ball! And get over your "critical junctures of the game" stuff because Trent did the SAME thing and was WORSE! Look at the critical divisional game (you know the thing we went 0-6 in) against Miami where Trent had a fumble, INT, and a 35 Qb rating in the fourth quarter of a game we should have won! Not to mention his 4 game stretch where the first 3 were against divisional opponents where he had 3 TD's and 10 turnovers against: Mia, Jets, NE, Cle where is QB ratings were 67.2, 79.3, 49.2, 50.3...this four game stretch buried our season and it was worse than anything Cutler did last year. And Magox, I have already shown you that Cutler is a SIGNIFICANTLY higher rated passer than Edwards and way more productive in close games where they are either tied or down 1-16 points and that Cutler is ALSO a high rated 4th quarter passer with 11 TD's to only 4 INT's in 16 games last year and a rating of 94.2. Cutler also led 2 big comebacks for Denver last year...so this business of him being not very good when it counts is laughable... gawd, this topic is old...there is not one person in football that would say Edwards is better than Cutler...not one... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alphadawg7 Posted March 18, 2009 Share Posted March 18, 2009 No one doubts that the defense of the Broncos suck, but if you read my post ramius, he had 3 of his less stellar games of the year when they needed him. Another words, he played well below his standards when the pressure was on. Capiche? here is another one for all of you who think it is the Broncos that are handling this wrong According to FoxSports.com's John Czarnecki, Jay Cutler's agent was "begging" the Broncos to trade Jay Cutler before the Matt Cassel talks even happened. Denver said absolutely not at the time, then entertained the Cassel offers. The "Czar" is yet another writer to point the finger at agent Bus Cook for this entire mess. The Cutler side says it's not about money, but we suspect they want a new contract. "less than stellar" games are way better than the HORRENDOUS 4 game lame duck effort Trent put up to kill our season! In those less than stellar games Cutler had 4 TD's, 4 INT's (in only 3 games) and averaged 282 yards passing! Not that bad... Trents 4 game stretch 4 TD's 10 turnovers, 196 yards passing (with 2 games UNDER 150 yards, one of which was against one of the worst passing D's in football on Monday night). And that Monday night game was a MUST win for us to save our season and Trent threw 3 INTS' in his first 4 pass attemtps! Cutler was a HOF candidate in those 3 games compared to the 4 games Trent put up to all but eliminate any post season hopes for us. It is just comical how critical you are of a guy who CLEARLY out played Trent, then in turn prop Trents awful performances up to no big deal and make excuses for him. Cutler doesnt have that much more playing experience than Edwards and is still learning too...the difference is he is productive and turns the ball over at about half the rate Edwards does while his is still learning... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magox Posted March 18, 2009 Share Posted March 18, 2009 Why do you ignore Trents fumbles? He had 9 fumbles in 12.5 games! He lost 5...thats 15 turnovers in 12.5 games, and if you put that into a full season that is over 19 turnovers... Cutler had 2 fumbles...so he had 20 total turnovers... Cutler 616 pass attempts, 20 turnovers...thats 1 for every 30.8 attempts. Edwards 245 pass attempts, 15 turnovers...thats 1 for every 16.33 attempts EDWARDS TURNS THE BALL OVER NEARLY DOUBLE THE RATE OF CUTLER, and thats not including his other 4 fumbles that werent lost... So Cutler, turns the ball over 46.98% LESS despite being way more aggressive in throwing the ball! And get over your "critical junctures of the game" stuff because Trent did the SAME thing and was WORSE! Look at the critical divisional game (you know the thing we went 0-6 in) against Miami where Trent had a fumble, INT, and a 35 Qb rating in the fourth quarter of a game we should have won! Not to mention his 4 game stretch where the first 3 were against divisional opponents where he had 3 TD's and 10 turnovers against: Mia, Jets, NE, Cle where is QB ratings were 67.2, 79.3, 49.2, 50.3...this four game stretch buried our season and it was worse than anything Cutler did last year. And Magox, I have already shown you that Cutler is a SIGNIFICANTLY higher rated passer than Edwards and way more productive in close games where they are either tied or down 1-16 points and that Cutler is ALSO a high rated 4th quarter passer with 11 TD's to only 4 INT's in 16 games last year and a rating of 94.2. Cutler also led 2 big comebacks for Denver last year...so this business of him being not very good when it counts is laughable... gawd, this topic is old...there is not one person in football that would say Edwards is better than Cutler...not one... Alpha bro, come on!! You have to stop this crusade against Edwards. No doubt, Edwards has been the better clutch player than Cutler. Those games you mention were not obvious games that we had to win. Where as you couldn't be more clear on Cutler's games. He stunk, bottom line. Your reaching Alpha, your really reaching, just because you say "I like the guy", doesn't mean you do, it is obvious that you don't, so please don't say you do, everyone knows you don't . You really don't have a good argument. The fumbles argument . Let's face it, Culter has been very mediocre to poor when they needed him. Edwards has been above average in games in the clutch. It is what it is Alpha. And also, on a sidenote Alpha, Did you read the original post by BillsVet? Where in his post did it make it into a Cutler vs. Edwards argument? I have another question for you, Where in my original post did I make it a Edwards vs. Cutler argument? (the only reason why I mentioned Edwards was to correct flbillsfans incorrect post) I know you love to chime in and show how much "you like the guy" in Edwards, but you missed the whole point. I've told you this before, you are obsessed in wanting to show the whole world why Edwards sucks in your view. just let it go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bizell Posted March 18, 2009 Share Posted March 18, 2009 so, uhh, magox, 6 7 and 8 pretty much apply to trent edwards, also. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lt. Dan's Revenge Posted March 18, 2009 Share Posted March 18, 2009 Cutler is not coming to Buffalo. Riveting analysis. Isn't that the same thing most people said about a certain player prior to March 7th? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magox Posted March 18, 2009 Share Posted March 18, 2009 so, uhh, magox, 6 7 and 8 pretty much apply to trent edwards, also. uhhhh not true anyway, it's all ways the same culprits. same bashers that have to chime in every time against edwards. The orignal post and my original post was not a cutler vs. edwards debate. It was why Cutler? you guyz gotta stop really Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alphadawg7 Posted March 18, 2009 Share Posted March 18, 2009 Alpha bro, come on!! You have to stop this crusade against Edwards. No doubt, Edwards has been the better clutch player than Cutler. Those games you mention were not obvious games that we had to win. Where as you couldn't be more clear on Cutler's games. He stunk, bottom line. Your reaching Alpha, your really reaching, just because you say "I like the guy", doesn't mean you do, it is obvious that you don't, so please don't say you do, everyone knows you don't . You really don't have a good argument. The fumbles argument . Let's face it, Culter has been very mediocre to poor when they needed him. Edwards has been above average in games in the clutch. It is what it is Alpha. And also, on a sidenote Alpha, Did you read the original post by BillsVet? Where in his post did it make it into a Cutler vs. Edwards argument? I have another question for you, Where in my original post did I make it a Edwards vs. Cutler argument? (the only reason why I mentioned Edwards was to correct flbillsfans incorrect post) I know you love to chime in and show how much "you like the guy" in Edwards, but you missed the whole point. I've told you this before, you are obsessed in wanting to show the whole world why Edwards sucks in your view. just let it go. Magox, you are the one comparing the two...I responded to your post...you keep trying to desperately convince everyone that some how Cutler isnt any good and that Edwards is better at protecting the ball... And 9 fumbles in 12.5 games is a problem and 5 lost fumbles are the same thing as an INT and a MAJOR problem! A turnover is a turnover regardless if its a fumble or INT and it still costs us games... Just becuase I correct the crazy posts about how Edwards is some how careful with the ball (more turnovers than TD's in his career) doesnt mean I dont think he CAN be good one day. You, amongst others, have a real hard time seperating potential from actual on field play. And how you can down play that 4 game stretch that all but eliminated our post season hopes is beyond me. One of which WAS a must win (Cle) on Monday night...Trent choked big time and looked like a deer in headlights...but again, you completely down play that and make Cutler to be worse in the 3 game stretch where he saw his defense give up 112 points in 3 games and he went for almost 900 yards of passing, 4 TD's and 4 INT's...come on now... I mean, defend Trent all you want, but come on, you don't have a leg to stand on in this crusade to prop Edwards up over Cutler...has Cutler been perfect, NO, but he has been quite better... Man this topic is old... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alphadawg7 Posted March 18, 2009 Share Posted March 18, 2009 Let's face it, Culter has been very mediocre to poor when they needed him. Edwards has been above average in games in the clutch. It is what it is Alpha. OMG, I must have missed this in my first reply...LMAO, you are out of your mind! Clutch when we needed him? In the 4th qtr of the Mia game he had a passer rating of 35, a lost fumble, and an INT...oh yeah, always clutch! You are losing it Magox... Divisional Games: We lost them all as you know...cant make the playoffs if you cant win in your division Mia: 67.2 QB rating, 0 TD, 1 INT, 2 fumbles, 1 lost, 227 yards (both turnovers in 4th qtr) Mia: DNP NE: 49.2 QB rating, 1 TD, 2 INT's, a measly 120 yards passing NE: 70.1 QB rating, 0 TD, 0 INT, 1 fumble lost, a whopping 128 yards passing Jets: 79.3 QB rating, 1 TD, 2 INT's, 1 Fumble lost, 289 yards passing Jets: DNP In 6 divisional games (the games we need him bad) he played in 4...in those 4 he totaled: 4 games, 2 TD's, 8 turnovers, 764 yards passing (191 per game, including 2 games UNDER 130) Oh, he is sooooo clutch...man you are off your rocker with this Trent stuff...in all honesty, and I am dont mean this to be as an ass, but that comment above that you wrote is the craziest thing I have ever seen you post... This doesnt even include the must win game on Monday night in Cle where he went for 148 yards, 1 TD, and 3 INT's... Do you think you might want to rethink that statement? Be honest... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magox Posted March 18, 2009 Share Posted March 18, 2009 Alpha just look back at the original post of Bills Vet and My first post before you commented on it. can you do that for me? Where did I make this a Cutler vs. Edwards thread? I just made my case why I wouldn't want Cutler. But the truth is, that you are obsessed, you really are, in trying to prove your point to the world why Edwards isn't a good qb in your view. Your the one who brought in your crusade against Edwards into the thread and how you had to compare the two. Just look back, and you will see. Why is that btw? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
300yrds Posted March 18, 2009 Share Posted March 18, 2009 Alpha bro, come on!! You have to stop this crusade against Edwards. No doubt, Edwards has been the better clutch player than Cutler. Those games you mention were not obvious games that we had to win. Where as you couldn't be more clear on Cutler's games. He stunk, bottom line. Your reaching Alpha, your really reaching, just because you say "I like the guy", doesn't mean you do, it is obvious that you don't, so please don't say you do, everyone knows you don't . You really don't have a good argument. The fumbles argument . Let's face it, Culter has been very mediocre to poor when they needed him. Edwards has been above average in games in the clutch. It is what it is Alpha. And also, on a sidenote Alpha, Did you read the original post by BillsVet? Where in his post did it make it into a Cutler vs. Edwards argument? I have another question for you, Where in my original post did I make it a Edwards vs. Cutler argument? (the only reason why I mentioned Edwards was to correct flbillsfans incorrect post) I know you love to chime in and show how much "you like the guy" in Edwards, but you missed the whole point. I've told you this before, you are obsessed in wanting to show the whole world why Edwards sucks in your view. just let it go. what are you high?? TE a better clutch player than Cutler, while Cutler may not be great, it would be a stretch to call Edwards decent in the clutch. I know he had those come back games where he valiantly marched us down the field in the 4th quarter and we all felt good, and we all where cautiously thinking super bowl at 5-1....then thats when it hit the fan, teams got tape, realized when they where up they didnt have to play prevent, because we(TE) dont throw the ball down field. Trent was so clutch we managed to drop basically the last 10 games of the season. How has TE not been poor when we needed him(please not playoff schedule, and how we where not on it) Under zero circumstances do I think TE is a bad QB, but the jury is still out, there are some real ball control, arm strength, weather, and durability issues. He still has alot to prove, and I think can be very good. Like Alpha I just dont understand the Golden Boy persona TE has been given, why the constant get out of jail free card on a regular basis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alphadawg7 Posted March 18, 2009 Share Posted March 18, 2009 1. Any Cutler thread is a thread that involves Edwards because he would replace Edwards...any case you make against Cutler is basically a case for Trent... 2. I responded to YOUR post about Trent turning the ball over less than Cutler... 3. Trent WAS bad last year more than he was good...just facts...8 of his 13 games he had UNDER an 82 QB rating, 6 of which were under 80... You didnt answer my question: Do you want to rethink you boasty statement that Trent has been "above average" when we needed him after seeing what he actually did on the field, especially our division? For the record...bashing a guy is simply saying he is a bumb, loser, will never get better, dump him...etc...I have NEVER said that he is any of those things, all I have done is remind you and others of his ACTUAL play on the field was not very good in most games last year. His stats are his stats...simple as that, and thats not bashing, thats reviewing the facts. You so desperately try to fluff him up to have performed better than he did. And it seems as if I am crusading or whatever you said because I am constantly responding to ridiculous statements like the one you just made claiming he has been "above average in the clutch" when he clearly has not, or other ridiculous statements claiming he is better than Cutler, people would take him over Brees, etc...I mean the sh*t gets real deep around here. I am not going to be a "homer" and try and pretend the guy has been better than he has just because he is a Bill. I like him, and will support him this season (even if he is in Denver), but that doesnt change my view on his play in 2008...it was bad more than it was good. You have some good posts on other topics, and I always enjoy a good debate, but man Magox, some of the stuff you do and say to prop Trent up to have performed better than he has is just astonishing... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alphadawg7 Posted March 18, 2009 Share Posted March 18, 2009 what are you high?? TE a better clutch player than Cutler, while Cutler may not be great, it would be a stretch to call Edwards decent in the clutch. I know he had those come back games where he valiantly marched us down the field in the 4th quarter and we all felt good, and we all where cautiously thinking super bowl at 5-1....then thats when it hit the fan, teams got tape, realized when they where up they didnt have to play prevent, because we(TE) dont throw the ball down field. Trent was so clutch we managed to drop basically the last 10 games of the season. How has TE not been poor when we needed him(please not playoff schedule, and how we where not on it) Under zero circumstances do I think TE is a bad QB, but the jury is still out, there are some real ball control, arm strength, weather, and durability issues. He still has alot to prove, and I think can be very good. Like Alpha I just dont understand the Golden Boy persona TE has been given, why the constant get out of jail free card on a regular basis. Exactly...I couldnt agree more... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DE Bills Fan Posted March 18, 2009 Share Posted March 18, 2009 Reading all of these posts in favor of acquiring Jay Cutler for an unknown price, got me thinking about how absurd it would be for the Bills. I'm not sure if the more intelligent Bills fans think this way, but I can think of at least five reasons not to. 1. Despite his stats, Cutler throws his share of INT's. 18 last season was among league worst in this category. Granted he's young, but QB's with rocket arms tend to force too much and get picked. (Cue a Favre reference) 2. He's been pampered and the center of attention in Denver. A 3 year vet who's started 2.5 seasons, he doesn't have the maturity to handle adversity. That won't change anytime soon. 3. Shanahan's offenses put up points, but he's not going into a Shanahan offense if he goes to Buffalo. 4. His agent Bus Cook has fomented more rebellion among his players, than most agents. It seems he likes being in the news as much as his clients. 5. The price tag, including draft picks and future cap space would be astronomical. McDaniels is attempting to be Belichick Jr in Denver, and will recognize that someone will overpay for a QB. Cutler's trade value, depsite the conflict, will demand a great deal of resources Buffalo should use to build their team. I'm referring to a DE, TE, perhaps an OLB, and OL depth. Don't forget the Bills top 3 DE's are or will be over 30 this season. Stroud is as well. Couldn't disagree with you more. You miss the whole point. Without a QB, you have no chance in the NFL. This is the rarest of rare opportunitied to get asuperior franchise QB. You jump at that chance. If the Bills don't at least try, it shows that it is hopeless... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magox Posted March 18, 2009 Share Posted March 18, 2009 what are you high?? TE a better clutch player than Cutler, while Cutler may not be great, it would be a stretch to call Edwards decent in the clutch. I know he had those come back games where he valiantly marched us down the field in the 4th quarter and we all felt good, and we all where cautiously thinking super bowl at 5-1....then thats when it hit the fan, teams got tape, realized when they where up they didnt have to play prevent, because we(TE) dont throw the ball down field. Trent was so clutch we managed to drop basically the last 10 games of the season. How has TE not been poor when we needed him(please not playoff schedule, and how we where not on it) Under zero circumstances do I think TE is a bad QB, but the jury is still out, there are some real ball control, arm strength, weather, and durability issues. He still has alot to prove, and I think can be very good. Like Alpha I just dont understand the Golden Boy persona TE has been given, why the constant get out of jail free card on a regular basis. In response to your first question, sometimes. but not now. In regards to clutch, I stand by that statement %100. When the game is on the line, specially in the 4th quarter, he has shown the ability to do what it takes, in order for us to win. Has he done it every single time? No, but just about every time. Considering this was his first full year and not having too much talent surrounding him both offensively and defensively, I think that is pretty damn impressive. As far as your comment what he did the last 10 games. I think you forget that Losman was in some of those games, and that Trent did play well in a few of those games, so your slightly exagerating. and why should he get a pass, well, no one get's a free pass right? He has done enough, to show that he can win games, play efficiently, with not to much talent around him to give him the benefit of the doubt to continue to be our starter this next year. And for the 3rd time. This thread originally had nothing to do with Edwards vs. Cutler. The original poster didn't make those comparisons, I didn't make those comparisons until Alpha brought his crusade against Edwards into the thread. That is a fact. Just take a look and you will see Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PushthePile Posted March 18, 2009 Share Posted March 18, 2009 Cutler- probowl Qb, never missed a game since highschool despite type 1 diabetes (untreated as well), 3rd in passing yards over the last two seasons, second highest 4th quarter Qb rating over last two seasons, tremendous TD rate, average int %, and seems like a jerk Edwards- playing for his job this season, injury prone (college and pros), 27th in passing tds last year- behind guys like Ferotte, J. Russell, Shaun Hill, Kyle Orton, and Jason Campbell, below NFL average yardage totals since becoming the starter, average int %, and seems like a nice guy I'll take the jerk! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alphadawg7 Posted March 18, 2009 Share Posted March 18, 2009 where do you get your information from? Cutler int % 2.9 Edwards int % 2.7 career int % cutler %3.03 Edwards %2.79 http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/statistics?s...2&year=2008 The year before they were the same. But to continue BillsVets reasons, which I believe the most important reasons havn't even been mentioned is : 6) His clutch performances. It was clear, that all the Broncos had to do was win their last three games of the season, and they are in the playoffs. The last three games of the year, when they needed him most, he didn't have one game out of the three where he had a qb rating of over 75. 2 td's 4 int's. 7) Critical junctures of the game he throws disastrous interceptions, ex. Buffalo and Chargers 8) hasn't produced a winning season, in arguably the weakest division of all of football. Considering the things that you mentioned BillsVet, there isn't anything that compels me to want to go after him at all. You are high Magox...here is YOUR post BEFORE I ever posted in this thread...it compares Trent and Cutler...I responded to THIS thread... And for the last time, any Cutler thread involves Edwards because he would be replacing Edwards...not rocket science here... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magox Posted March 18, 2009 Share Posted March 18, 2009 1. Any Cutler thread is a thread that involves Edwards because he would replace Edwards...any case you make against Cutler is basically a case for Trent...2. I responded to YOUR post about Trent turning the ball over less than Cutler... 3. Trent WAS bad last year more than he was good...just facts...8 of his 13 games he had UNDER an 82 QB rating, 6 of which were under 80... You didnt answer my question: Do you want to rethink you boasty statement that Trent has been "above average" when we needed him after seeing what he actually did on the field, especially our division? For the record...bashing a guy is simply saying he is a bumb, loser, will never get better, dump him...etc...I have NEVER said that he is any of those things, all I have done is remind you and others of his ACTUAL play on the field was not very good in most games last year. His stats are his stats...simple as that, and thats not bashing, thats reviewing the facts. You so desperately try to fluff him up to have performed better than he did. And it seems as if I am crusading or whatever you said because I am constantly responding to ridiculous statements like the one you just made claiming he has been "above average in the clutch" when he clearly has not, or other ridiculous statements claiming he is better than Cutler, people would take him over Brees, etc...I mean the sh*t gets real deep around here. I am not going to be a "homer" and try and pretend the guy has been better than he has just because he is a Bill. I like him, and will support him this season (even if he is in Denver), but that doesnt change my view on his play in 2008...it was bad more than it was good. You have some good posts on other topics, and I always enjoy a good debate, but man Magox, some of the stuff you do and say to prop Trent up to have performed better than he has is just astonishing... No where in my original post did I make a comparison between the two. You brought your Trent Bashing into the discussion, as usual. My original comments about Cutler were all factualy correct. Those are my opinions on why I don't want him here. Let's face it Alpha, You and I are never going to agree about this subject. I have my points, which are valid, and you have yours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magox Posted March 18, 2009 Share Posted March 18, 2009 1. Trent's INT ratio is WORSE than Cutlers.2. What GOOD QB isn't pampered & the center of attention? 3. He has shown he has the arm strength to play in Buffalo & would put up more points than Trent. 4. Agree. 5. Belichick gave up Cassell & a Vet LB for a #2. I would GLADLY give Denver a #2 for Cuttler & ANY other player & Trent can be his back up. Alpha look what FLbillsfan wrote? He said INT ratio not turnover ratio I corrected him got it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
firstngoal Posted March 18, 2009 Share Posted March 18, 2009 Reading all of these posts in favor of acquiring Jay Cutler for an unknown price, got me thinking about how absurd it would be for the Bills. I'm not sure if the more intelligent Bills fans think this way, but I can think of at least five reasons not to. 1. Despite his stats, Cutler throws his share of INT's. 18 last season was among league worst in this category. Granted he's young, but QB's with rocket arms tend to force too much and get picked. (Cue a Favre reference) 2. He's been pampered and the center of attention in Denver. A 3 year vet who's started 2.5 seasons, he doesn't have the maturity to handle adversity. That won't change anytime soon. 3. Shanahan's offenses put up points, but he's not going into a Shanahan offense if he goes to Buffalo. 4. His agent Bus Cook has fomented more rebellion among his players, than most agents. It seems he likes being in the news as much as his clients. 5. The price tag, including draft picks and future cap space would be astronomical. McDaniels is attempting to be Belichick Jr in Denver, and will recognize that someone will overpay for a QB. Cutler's trade value, depsite the conflict, will demand a great deal of resources Buffalo should use to build their team. I'm referring to a DE, TE, perhaps an OLB, and OL depth. Don't forget the Bills top 3 DE's are or will be over 30 this season. Stroud is as well. The only thing that is absurd would be the Bills not pursuing Cutler. I know that they won't because Jauron is married to Edwards, but there is NO comparison between the two. Cutler is a young QB with a cannon for an arm and the mobility to match. he threw for over 4,000 yds last year and had his team headed to the playoffs despite a running game and the worst defense in the league. Cutler is a top 6 QB in the league. Edwards is far from being a proven NFL starter. He's injury prone, and can't throw the deep ball accurately. There's a reason he lasted until the later part of the 3rd round, and there's a good chance that he won't be a starter in the league after 2009 if Jauron gets the boot, and a new coach either sends him packing, or to the bench. Cutler is a proven starter that will play in the league for 10+ years and has a chance to re-write the record books. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PushthePile Posted March 18, 2009 Share Posted March 18, 2009 No where in my original post did I make a comparison between the two. You brought your Trent Bashing into the discussion, as usual. My original comments about Cutler were all factualy correct. Those are my opinions on why I don't want him here. Let's face it Alpha, You and I are never going to agree about this subject. I have my points, which are valid, and you have yours. You stated that Cutler is not a clutch player and based it on a handpicked three game stretch. Your OPINIONS of his play in the clutch are not only unfound but they are flat out wrong. His 4th quarter Qb rating is second highest in the league over the last two seasons and he has numerous comeback wins. Off the top of my head San Diego this past season and in Buffalo two seasons ago in the opener. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magox Posted March 18, 2009 Share Posted March 18, 2009 You stated that Cutler is not a clutch player and based it on a handpicked three game stretch. Your OPINIONS of his play in the clutch are not only unfound but they are flat out wrong. His 4th quarter Qb rating is second highest in the league over the last two seasons and he has numerous comeback wins. Off the top of my head San Diego this past season and in Buffalo two seasons ago in the opener. uhhh ya no sh*t they were the 3 most important games of his career Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PushthePile Posted March 18, 2009 Share Posted March 18, 2009 The only thing that is absurd would be the Bills not pursuing Cutler. I know that they won't because Jauron is married to Edwards, but there is NO comparison between the two. Cutler is a young QB with a cannon for an arm and the mobility to match. he threw for over 4,000 yds last year and had his team headed to the playoffs despite a running game and the worst defense in the league. Cutler is a top 6 QB in the league. Edwards is far from being a proven NFL starter. He's injury prone, and can't throw the deep ball accurately. There's a reason he lasted until the later part of the 3rd round, and there's a good chance that he won't be a starter in the league after 2009 if Jauron gets the boot, and a new coach either sends him packing, or to the bench. Cutler is a proven starter that will play in the league for 10+ years and has a chance to re-write the record books. Exactly! It is not even comparable. Next thing you know all the Homers around here will be telling us Lynch is superior to Peterson because Minnesota has a good o-line. Just pathetic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PushthePile Posted March 18, 2009 Share Posted March 18, 2009 uhhh ya no sh*t they were the 3 most important games of his career Relax my friend. Cutler has started 37 games in his three year career, I think he might be able have a few bigger ones in the future. Unlike Edwards who is going into a do or die situation this season and needs to do something he has never done before.What about that 4th quarter qb rating, nothing to say? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lets_go_bills Posted March 18, 2009 Share Posted March 18, 2009 Baby. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lt. Dan's Revenge Posted March 18, 2009 Share Posted March 18, 2009 uhhh ya no sh*t they were the 3 most important games of his career What does that even mean? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magox Posted March 18, 2009 Share Posted March 18, 2009 Relax my friend. Cutler has started 37 games in his three year career, I think he might be able have a few bigger ones in the future. Unlike Edwards who is going into a do or die situation this season and needs to do something he has never done before.What about that 4th quarter qb rating, nothing to say? I never said that Cutler wasn't a bad qb. I said it on another thread a couple times that Up to now, Cutler is more accomplished. He made the probowl, has the bigger arm, classic gunslinger. His 4th quarter qb rating is good. But the bottom line is, that up to now, when they needed him most, he didn't deliver. That is not an unfair statement. It is the truth. Will Cutler have more important games in his career moving forward. I would think that he most likely will. But up to now, in the 3 biggest games of his career, he hasn't produced. So when this thread was created, the original poster stated his reasons why he wouldn't want Cutler, and I stated mine. fair enough? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PushthePile Posted March 18, 2009 Share Posted March 18, 2009 I never said that Cutler wasn't a bad qb. I said it on another thread a couple times that Up to now, Cutler is more accomplished. He made the probowl, has the bigger arm, classic gunslinger. His 4th quarter qb rating is good. But the bottom line is, that up to now, when they needed him most, he didn't deliver. That is not an unfair statement. It is the truth. Will Cutler have more important games in his career moving forward. I would think that he most likely will. But up to now, in the 3 biggest games of his career, he hasn't produced. So when this thread was created, the original poster stated his reasons why he wouldn't want Cutler, and I stated mine. fair enough? Of course it's fair. I am respectfully disagreeing on this one, thats all. I've read lots of your posts and think you are an informed fan. We aren't going to come to a conclusion on this one but that's alright because Trent's our guy. I'll root for Edwards every time he takes the field. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magox Posted March 18, 2009 Share Posted March 18, 2009 What does that even mean? It's been discussed many times before, here's a recap Denver with 3 games remaining, had a huge lead against the Chargers to get into the playoffs, pretty much everyone thought they were going to get in, do you remember that? So, in the last 3 games, Cutler had 3 very mediocre games, 2 tds 4 ints. Not one game of qb rating of over 75 in the three games. So, the argument is that when they needed him to have his performance, he gave mediocre performances, and had two very important Int's, one against buffalo (kawika mitchel)4th quarter, the other in the 3rd quarter against chargers where on the ensuing play Tomlinson scores a 14 yard td run to change the tide of the game. So, when Pushthepile said, that i handpicked 3 games, thats when I made the comment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alphadawg7 Posted March 18, 2009 Share Posted March 18, 2009 Magox you like to point out crusades when all anyone does is discuss the truth and facts of what Trent did on the field. You seem to be the only one on a crusade here...and two of them... 1. You are on a crusade to prop Trent up to have done more than he has. In fact, you blatently ignore factual stats to the contrary. 2. You are on a seperate crusade to discredit a Pro Bowl QB to further prop up Edwards... We will just have to agree to disagree because I dont even know how to respond to your outrageous claims for Trent and even worse ones from Cutler...especially when you continuously blatently ignore factual evidence to the contrary of your discussion... No biggie...everyone is entitled to their opinnion...see you on another thread... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alphadawg7 Posted March 18, 2009 Share Posted March 18, 2009 Funny thing too is that we seem to agree on a lot of other topics, but we are on polar opposites of this one Magox...lol... Its all good... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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