The case against Cutler

[BillsVet]

Reading all of these posts in favor of acquiring Jay Cutler for an unknown price, got me thinking about how absurd it would be for the Bills. I'm not sure if the more intelligent Bills fans think this way, but I can think of at least five reasons not to.

 

1. Despite his stats, Cutler throws his share of INT's. 18 last season was among league worst in this category. Granted he's young, but QB's with rocket arms tend to force too much and get picked. (Cue a Favre reference)

2. He's been pampered and the center of attention in Denver. A 3 year vet who's started 2.5 seasons, he doesn't have the maturity to handle adversity. That won't change anytime soon.

3. Shanahan's offenses put up points, but he's not going into a Shanahan offense if he goes to Buffalo.

4. His agent Bus Cook has fomented more rebellion among his players, than most agents. It seems he likes being in the news as much as his clients.

5. The price tag, including draft picks and future cap space would be astronomical. McDaniels is attempting to be Belichick Jr in Denver, and will recognize that someone will overpay for a QB. Cutler's trade value, depsite the conflict, will demand a great deal of resources Buffalo should use to build their team. I'm referring to a DE, TE, perhaps an OLB, and OL depth. Don't forget the Bills top 3 DE's are or will be over 30 this season. Stroud is as well.

[Lofton80]

It isn't happening. I like Cutler, he is tough and this team lacks toughness.

[extrahammer]

For all you Cutlerites, I hope Edwards breaks out this year and throws 30 TDs, goes to the Pro Bowl, and refuses to autograph anything for your children!

[richNjoisy]

Your points are well taken. But even before one gets to the point of considering what one will get out of a traded-for player and what the cost might be comes the skills of the player being replaced. Quite often, the SITUATION one lands in determines how one progresses (or not) in a new job. JP Losman came in after years of unmet expectations of the "veteran" Quarterbacks (Flutie, Johnson, Van Pelt, Bledsoe, Holcomb). Thus, he was given a lot of leeway even after one bad game after another.

 

It reminds me of a line near the end of The Goodbye Girl when Dreyfus exclaims, "I'm the only guy who's trustworthy and I'm taking the blame for all those guys who preceded me!" In other words, Trent Edwards has been given one of the shortest grace periods I've ever seen for a rookie QB and I think he may be the best QB we've had since Kelly. I am not certain of this - the 1st half of the Browns game last year is still a recurring nightmare.

 

But, if I were GM I would not even consider trading for Cutler, given the obvious costs to do so, when I may already have a franchise QB on the team right now. Admittedly, this is probably a make or break year for Trent. Which EVEN THAT may be unfair since it is only his third year in the league. I am hoping beyond hope that the Front Office can find a way to get a decent offensive line in front of him and a decent pass-catching Tight End. With these additional pieces, I think we will finally see what this guy can do.

 

Put points on the board - lots of them.

 

 

Reading all of these posts in favor of acquiring Jay Cutler for an unknown price, got me thinking about how absurd it would be for the Bills. I'm not sure if the more intelligent Bills fans think this way, but I can think of at least five reasons not to.

 

1. Despite his stats, Cutler throws his share of INT's. 18 last season was among league worst in this category. Granted he's young, but QB's with rocket arms tend to force too much and get picked. (Cue a Favre reference)

2. He's been pampered and the center of attention in Denver. A 3 year vet who's started 2.5 seasons, he doesn't have the maturity to handle adversity. That won't change anytime soon.

3. Shanahan's offenses put up points, but he's not going into a Shanahan offense if he goes to Buffalo.

4. His agent Bus Cook has fomented more rebellion among his players, than most agents. It seems he likes being in the news as much as his clients.

5. The price tag, including draft picks and future cap space would be astronomical. McDaniels is attempting to be Belichick Jr in Denver, and will recognize that someone will overpay for a QB. Cutler's trade value, depsite the conflict, will demand a great deal of resources Buffalo should use to build their team. I'm referring to a DE, TE, perhaps an OLB, and OL depth. Don't forget the Bills top 3 DE's are or will be over 30 this season. Stroud is as well.

[Flbillsfan#1]

Reading all of these posts in favor of acquiring Jay Cutler for an unknown price, got me thinking about how absurd it would be for the Bills. I'm not sure if the more intelligent Bills fans think this way, but I can think of at least five reasons not to.

 

1. Despite his stats, Cutler throws his share of INT's. 18 last season was among league worst in this category. Granted he's young, but QB's with rocket arms tend to force too much and get picked. (Cue a Favre reference)

2. He's been pampered and the center of attention in Denver. A 3 year vet who's started 2.5 seasons, he doesn't have the maturity to handle adversity. That won't change anytime soon.

3. Shanahan's offenses put up points, but he's not going into a Shanahan offense if he goes to Buffalo.

4. His agent Bus Cook has fomented more rebellion among his players, than most agents. It seems he likes being in the news as much as his clients.

5. The price tag, including draft picks and future cap space would be astronomical. McDaniels is attempting to be Belichick Jr in Denver, and will recognize that someone will overpay for a QB. Cutler's trade value, depsite the conflict, will demand a great deal of resources Buffalo should use to build their team. I'm referring to a DE, TE, perhaps an OLB, and OL depth. Don't forget the Bills top 3 DE's are or will be over 30 this season. Stroud is as well.

1. Trent's INT ratio is WORSE than Cutlers.

2. What GOOD QB isn't pampered & the center of attention?

3. He has shown he has the arm strength to play in Buffalo & would put up more points than Trent.

4. Agree.

5. Belichick gave up Cassell & a Vet LB for a #2. I would GLADLY give Denver a #2 for Cuttler & ANY other player & Trent can be his back up.

[BillsNYC]

Cutler is not coming to Buffalo.

[twist-to-open]

I think the most important arguement against this guy is that we now have T.O. on our roster. If this guys is too sensitive to handle the reality that he's just like anyone else in the NFL, and is capable of being traded at any given time, then whats gonna happen when he has a bad game and T.O. gets in his face.

If he became our starting QB I'd give it to week 3 max that we'd be making the lead story on ESPN on monday and not for what we did on the field and not in a good way.

[Magox]

1. Trent's INT ratio is WORSE than Cutlers.

2. What GOOD QB isn't pampered & the center of attention?

3. He has shown he has the arm strength to play in Buffalo & would put up more points than Trent.

4. Agree.

5. Belichick gave up Cassell & a Vet LB for a #2. I would GLADLY give Denver a #2 for Cuttler & ANY other player & Trent can be his back up.

where do you get your information from?

 

Cutler int % 2.9

Edwards int % 2.7

 

career int %

 

cutler %3.03

Edwards %2.79

 

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/statistics?s...2&year=2008

 

The year before they were the same.

 

But to continue BillsVets reasons, which I believe the most important reasons havn't even been mentioned is :

 

 

6) His clutch performances. It was clear, that all the Broncos had to do was win their last three games of the season, and they are in the playoffs. The last three games of the year, when they needed him most, he didn't have one game out of the three where he had a qb rating of over 75. 2 td's 4 int's.

 

7) Critical junctures of the game he throws disastrous interceptions, ex. Buffalo and Chargers

 

8) hasn't produced a winning season, in arguably the weakest division of all of football.

 

Considering the things that you mentioned BillsVet, there isn't anything that compels me to want to go after him at all.

[Ramius]

where do you get your information from?

 

Cutler int % 2.9

Edwards int % 2.7

 

career int %

 

cutler %3.03

Edwards %2.79

 

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/statistics?s...2&year=2008

 

The year before they were the same.

 

But to continue BillsVets reasons, which I believe the most important reasons havn't even been mentioned is :

 

 

6) His clutch performances. It was clear, that all the Broncos had to do was win their last three games of the season, and they are in the playoffs. The last three games of the year, when they needed him most, he didn't have one game out of the three where he had a qb rating of over 75. 2 td's 4 int's.

 

7) Critical junctures of the game he throws disastrous interceptions, ex. Buffalo and Chargers

 

8) hasn't produced a winning season, in arguably the weakest division of all of football.

 

Considering the things that you mentioned BillsVet, there isn't anything that compels me to want to go after him at all.

 

The worst part about the Jay Cutler induced 3 game losing streak at the end of last season was when he allowed 30, 30, and 52 points to the opposition.

[Magox]

The worst part about the Jay Cutler induced 3 game losing streak at the end of last season was when he allowed 30, 30, and 52 points to the opposition.

No one doubts that the defense of the Broncos suck, but if you read my post ramius, he had 3 of his less stellar games of the year when they needed him. Another words, he played well below his standards when the pressure was on. Capiche?

 

here is another one for all of you who think it is the Broncos that are handling this wrong

 

 

According to FoxSports.com's John Czarnecki, Jay Cutler's agent was "begging" the Broncos to trade Jay Cutler before the Matt Cassel talks even happened.

 

Denver said absolutely not at the time, then entertained the Cassel offers. The "Czar" is yet another writer to point the finger at agent Bus Cook for this entire mess. The Cutler side says it's not about money, but we suspect they want a new contract.

[Alphadawg7]

where do you get your information from?

 

Cutler int % 2.9

Edwards int % 2.7

 

career int %

 

cutler %3.03

Edwards %2.79

 

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/statistics?s...2&year=2008

 

The year before they were the same.

 

But to continue BillsVets reasons, which I believe the most important reasons havn't even been mentioned is :

 

 

6) His clutch performances. It was clear, that all the Broncos had to do was win their last three games of the season, and they are in the playoffs. The last three games of the year, when they needed him most, he didn't have one game out of the three where he had a qb rating of over 75. 2 td's 4 int's.

 

7) Critical junctures of the game he throws disastrous interceptions, ex. Buffalo and Chargers

 

8) hasn't produced a winning season, in arguably the weakest division of all of football.

 

Considering the things that you mentioned BillsVet, there isn't anything that compels me to want to go after him at all.

 

Why do you ignore Trents fumbles? He had 9 fumbles in 12.5 games! He lost 5...thats 15 turnovers in 12.5 games, and if you put that into a full season that is over 19 turnovers...

 

Cutler had 2 fumbles...so he had 20 total turnovers...

 

Cutler 616 pass attempts, 20 turnovers...thats 1 for every 30.8 attempts.

 

Edwards 245 pass attempts, 15 turnovers...thats 1 for every 16.33 attempts

 

EDWARDS TURNS THE BALL OVER NEARLY DOUBLE THE RATE OF CUTLER, and thats not including his other 4 fumbles that werent lost...

 

So Cutler, turns the ball over 46.98% LESS despite being way more aggressive in throwing the ball!

 

And get over your "critical junctures of the game" stuff because Trent did the SAME thing and was WORSE! Look at the critical divisional game (you know the thing we went 0-6 in) against Miami where Trent had a fumble, INT, and a 35 Qb rating in the fourth quarter of a game we should have won!

 

Not to mention his 4 game stretch where the first 3 were against divisional opponents where he had 3 TD's and 10 turnovers against: Mia, Jets, NE, Cle where is QB ratings were 67.2, 79.3, 49.2, 50.3...this four game stretch buried our season and it was worse than anything Cutler did last year.

 

And Magox, I have already shown you that Cutler is a SIGNIFICANTLY higher rated passer than Edwards and way more productive in close games where they are either tied or down 1-16 points and that Cutler is ALSO a high rated 4th quarter passer with 11 TD's to only 4 INT's in 16 games last year and a rating of 94.2.

 

Cutler also led 2 big comebacks for Denver last year...so this business of him being not very good when it counts is laughable...

 

gawd, this topic is old...there is not one person in football that would say Edwards is better than Cutler...not one...

[Alphadawg7]

No one doubts that the defense of the Broncos suck, but if you read my post ramius, he had 3 of his less stellar games of the year when they needed him. Another words, he played well below his standards when the pressure was on. Capiche?

 

here is another one for all of you who think it is the Broncos that are handling this wrong

 

 

According to FoxSports.com's John Czarnecki, Jay Cutler's agent was "begging" the Broncos to trade Jay Cutler before the Matt Cassel talks even happened.

 

Denver said absolutely not at the time, then entertained the Cassel offers. The "Czar" is yet another writer to point the finger at agent Bus Cook for this entire mess. The Cutler side says it's not about money, but we suspect they want a new contract.

 

"less than stellar" games are way better than the HORRENDOUS 4 game lame duck effort Trent put up to kill our season!

 

In those less than stellar games Cutler had 4 TD's, 4 INT's (in only 3 games) and averaged 282 yards passing! Not that bad...

 

Trents 4 game stretch 4 TD's 10 turnovers, 196 yards passing (with 2 games UNDER 150 yards, one of which was against one of the worst passing D's in football on Monday night). And that Monday night game was a MUST win for us to save our season and Trent threw 3 INTS' in his first 4 pass attemtps!

 

Cutler was a HOF candidate in those 3 games compared to the 4 games Trent put up to all but eliminate any post season hopes for us.

 

It is just comical how critical you are of a guy who CLEARLY out played Trent, then in turn prop Trents awful performances up to no big deal and make excuses for him. Cutler doesnt have that much more playing experience than Edwards and is still learning too...the difference is he is productive and turns the ball over at about half the rate Edwards does while his is still learning...

[Magox]

Why do you ignore Trents fumbles? He had 9 fumbles in 12.5 games! He lost 5...thats 15 turnovers in 12.5 games, and if you put that into a full season that is over 19 turnovers...

 

Cutler had 2 fumbles...so he had 20 total turnovers...

 

Cutler 616 pass attempts, 20 turnovers...thats 1 for every 30.8 attempts.

 

Edwards 245 pass attempts, 15 turnovers...thats 1 for every 16.33 attempts

 

EDWARDS TURNS THE BALL OVER NEARLY DOUBLE THE RATE OF CUTLER, and thats not including his other 4 fumbles that werent lost...

 

So Cutler, turns the ball over 46.98% LESS despite being way more aggressive in throwing the ball!

 

And get over your "critical junctures of the game" stuff because Trent did the SAME thing and was WORSE! Look at the critical divisional game (you know the thing we went 0-6 in) against Miami where Trent had a fumble, INT, and a 35 Qb rating in the fourth quarter of a game we should have won!

 

Not to mention his 4 game stretch where the first 3 were against divisional opponents where he had 3 TD's and 10 turnovers against: Mia, Jets, NE, Cle where is QB ratings were 67.2, 79.3, 49.2, 50.3...this four game stretch buried our season and it was worse than anything Cutler did last year.

 

And Magox, I have already shown you that Cutler is a SIGNIFICANTLY higher rated passer than Edwards and way more productive in close games where they are either tied or down 1-16 points and that Cutler is ALSO a high rated 4th quarter passer with 11 TD's to only 4 INT's in 16 games last year and a rating of 94.2.

 

Cutler also led 2 big comebacks for Denver last year...so this business of him being not very good when it counts is laughable...

 

gawd, this topic is old...there is not one person in football that would say Edwards is better than Cutler...not one...

Alpha bro, come on!! You have to stop this crusade against Edwards. No doubt, Edwards has been the better clutch player than Cutler. Those games you mention were not obvious games that we had to win. Where as you couldn't be more clear on Cutler's games. He stunk, bottom line.

 

Your reaching Alpha, your really reaching, just because you say "I like the guy", doesn't mean you do, it is obvious that you don't, so please don't say you do, everyone knows you don't

 

. You really don't have a good argument. The fumbles argument .

 

Let's face it, Culter has been very mediocre to poor when they needed him. Edwards has been above average in games in the clutch. It is what it is Alpha.

 

 

 

 

And also, on a sidenote Alpha, Did you read the original post by BillsVet? Where in his post did it make it into a Cutler vs. Edwards argument?

 

I have another question for you, Where in my original post did I make it a Edwards vs. Cutler argument? (the only reason why I mentioned Edwards was to correct flbillsfans incorrect post)

 

I know you love to chime in and show how much "you like the guy" in Edwards, but you missed the whole point. I've told you this before, you are obsessed in wanting to show the whole world why Edwards sucks in your view.

 

just let it go.

[bizell]

so, uhh, magox, 6 7 and 8 pretty much apply to trent edwards, also.

[Lt. Dan's Revenge]

Cutler is not coming to Buffalo.

 

Riveting analysis. Isn't that the same thing most people said about a certain player prior to March 7th?

[Magox]

so, uhh, magox, 6 7 and 8 pretty much apply to trent edwards, also.

uhhhh

 

not true

 

 

anyway,

 

it's all ways the same culprits. same bashers that have to chime in every time against edwards.

 

The orignal post and my original post was not a cutler vs. edwards debate.

 

It was why Cutler?

 

you guyz gotta stop

 

really

[Alphadawg7]

Alpha bro, come on!! You have to stop this crusade against Edwards. No doubt, Edwards has been the better clutch player than Cutler. Those games you mention were not obvious games that we had to win. Where as you couldn't be more clear on Cutler's games. He stunk, bottom line.

 

Your reaching Alpha, your really reaching, just because you say "I like the guy", doesn't mean you do, it is obvious that you don't, so please don't say you do, everyone knows you don't

 

. You really don't have a good argument. The fumbles argument .

 

Let's face it, Culter has been very mediocre to poor when they needed him. Edwards has been above average in games in the clutch. It is what it is Alpha.

 

 

 

 

And also, on a sidenote Alpha, Did you read the original post by BillsVet? Where in his post did it make it into a Cutler vs. Edwards argument?

 

I have another question for you, Where in my original post did I make it a Edwards vs. Cutler argument? (the only reason why I mentioned Edwards was to correct flbillsfans incorrect post)

 

I know you love to chime in and show how much "you like the guy" in Edwards, but you missed the whole point. I've told you this before, you are obsessed in wanting to show the whole world why Edwards sucks in your view.

 

just let it go.

 

 

Magox, you are the one comparing the two...I responded to your post...you keep trying to desperately convince everyone that some how Cutler isnt any good and that Edwards is better at protecting the ball...

 

And 9 fumbles in 12.5 games is a problem and 5 lost fumbles are the same thing as an INT and a MAJOR problem! A turnover is a turnover regardless if its a fumble or INT and it still costs us games...

 

Just becuase I correct the crazy posts about how Edwards is some how careful with the ball (more turnovers than TD's in his career) doesnt mean I dont think he CAN be good one day. You, amongst others, have a real hard time seperating potential from actual on field play. And how you can down play that 4 game stretch that all but eliminated our post season hopes is beyond me.

 

One of which WAS a must win (Cle) on Monday night...Trent choked big time and looked like a deer in headlights...but again, you completely down play that and make Cutler to be worse in the 3 game stretch where he saw his defense give up 112 points in 3 games and he went for almost 900 yards of passing, 4 TD's and 4 INT's...come on now...

 

I mean, defend Trent all you want, but come on, you don't have a leg to stand on in this crusade to prop Edwards up over Cutler...has Cutler been perfect, NO, but he has been quite better...

 

Man this topic is old...

[Alphadawg7]

Let's face it, Culter has been very mediocre to poor when they needed him. Edwards has been above average in games in the clutch. It is what it is Alpha.

 

OMG, I must have missed this in my first reply...LMAO, you are out of your mind! Clutch when we needed him? In the 4th qtr of the Mia game he had a passer rating of 35, a lost fumble, and an INT...oh yeah, always clutch! You are losing it Magox...

 

Divisional Games: We lost them all as you know...cant make the playoffs if you cant win in your division

 

Mia: 67.2 QB rating, 0 TD, 1 INT, 2 fumbles, 1 lost, 227 yards (both turnovers in 4th qtr)

Mia: DNP

NE: 49.2 QB rating, 1 TD, 2 INT's, a measly 120 yards passing

NE: 70.1 QB rating, 0 TD, 0 INT, 1 fumble lost, a whopping 128 yards passing

Jets: 79.3 QB rating, 1 TD, 2 INT's, 1 Fumble lost, 289 yards passing

Jets: DNP

 

In 6 divisional games (the games we need him bad) he played in 4...in those 4 he totaled:

 

4 games, 2 TD's, 8 turnovers, 764 yards passing (191 per game, including 2 games UNDER 130)

 

Oh, he is sooooo clutch...man you are off your rocker with this Trent stuff...in all honesty, and I am dont mean this to be as an ass, but that comment above that you wrote is the craziest thing I have ever seen you post...

 

This doesnt even include the must win game on Monday night in Cle where he went for 148 yards, 1 TD, and 3 INT's...

 

Do you think you might want to rethink that statement? Be honest...

[Magox]

Alpha

 

just look back at the original post of Bills Vet

 

and My first post before you commented on it.

 

can you do that for me?

 

Where did I make this a Cutler vs. Edwards thread?

 

I just made my case why I wouldn't want Cutler.

 

But the truth is, that you are obsessed, you really are, in trying to prove your point to the world why Edwards isn't a good qb in your view.

 

 

Your the one who brought in your crusade against Edwards into the thread and how you had to compare the two. Just look back, and you will see.

 

Why is that btw?

[300yrds]

Alpha bro, come on!! You have to stop this crusade against Edwards. No doubt, Edwards has been the better clutch player than Cutler. Those games you mention were not obvious games that we had to win. Where as you couldn't be more clear on Cutler's games. He stunk, bottom line.

 

Your reaching Alpha, your really reaching, just because you say "I like the guy", doesn't mean you do, it is obvious that you don't, so please don't say you do, everyone knows you don't

 

. You really don't have a good argument. The fumbles argument .

 

Let's face it, Culter has been very mediocre to poor when they needed him. Edwards has been above average in games in the clutch. It is what it is Alpha.

 

 

 

 

And also, on a sidenote Alpha, Did you read the original post by BillsVet? Where in his post did it make it into a Cutler vs. Edwards argument?

 

I have another question for you, Where in my original post did I make it a Edwards vs. Cutler argument? (the only reason why I mentioned Edwards was to correct flbillsfans incorrect post)

 

I know you love to chime in and show how much "you like the guy" in Edwards, but you missed the whole point. I've told you this before, you are obsessed in wanting to show the whole world why Edwards sucks in your view.

 

just let it go.

 

what are you high??

 

TE a better clutch player than Cutler, while Cutler may not be great, it would be a stretch to call Edwards decent in the clutch. I know he had those come back games where he valiantly marched us down the field in the 4th quarter and we all felt good, and we all where cautiously thinking super bowl at 5-1....then thats when it hit the fan, teams got tape, realized when they where up they didnt have to play prevent, because we(TE) dont throw the ball down field.

 

Trent was so clutch we managed to drop basically the last 10 games of the season. How has TE not been poor when we needed him(please not playoff schedule, and how we where not on it)

 

Under zero circumstances do I think TE is a bad QB, but the jury is still out, there are some real ball control, arm strength, weather, and durability issues. He still has alot to prove, and I think can be very good.

 

Like Alpha I just dont understand the Golden Boy persona TE has been given, why the constant get out of jail free card on a regular basis.