Bill from NYC Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 Here's your exact quote "This guy was downright awful in every meaningful game down the stretch". 1st off, if you include SF, which was AFTER the KC game, you can't say every, since KC would be included in every, then change it to majority to fit your response. 2nd, "Down the stretch" means heading towards the finish. You can't selectively start the stretch in the middle of the race-it doesn't fit the definition. So maybe your problem is with defintions of the word every & the term down the stretch. Or you just don't want to give Edwards a fair shake. It is also telling how some people like to disregard the Denver game. Horrible weather, on the road in an extremely hard place to win, but why don't we just totally remove this performance from the equation? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magox Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 It is also telling how some people like to disregard the Denver game. Horrible weather, on the road in an extremely hard place to win, but why don't we just totally remove this performance from the equation? I'm gonna do it before someone beats me to it. Denver has a bad defense so it doesn't count It's no use arguin this point. Some people like him, some people don't. We'll just have to wait until next year Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramius Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 Here's your exact quote "This guy was downright awful in every meaningful game down the stretch". 1st off, if you include SF, which was AFTER the KC game, you can't say every, since KC would be included in every, then change it to majority to fit your response. 2nd, "Down the stretch" means heading towards the finish. You can't selectively start the stretch in the middle of the race-it doesn't fit the definition. So maybe your problem is with defintions of the word every & the term down the stretch. Or you just don't want to give Edwards a fair shake. Every player, especially QBs is going to have their good and bad games each year. The biggest thing we need from trent (aside from staying healthy for 16 games, not just 10) in 2009 is more Denver/KC games, and a lot fewer Mia, NYJ, NE*x2, Cleve, and SF games. And at some point, he's going to have to throw the ball downfield. We're not going anywhere if he continually checks down the outlet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bizell Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 It is also telling how some people like to disregard the Denver game. Horrible weather, on the road in an extremely hard place to win, but why don't we just totally remove this performance from the equation? eh, I wouldn't totally hang my hat on achievements versus Denver's defense last year. Their defense was straight-up horrific - witness: 29th in yards allowed per game (374.6) 26th in pass yards allowed per game (226.5) 27th in rush yards allowed per game (146.1) and even though buffalo did very well that day, putting up 30 points, it's only 2 more than denver allowed on average. and FWIW, Denver was 4-4 at home last year, which doesn't exactly scream "extremely hard to win at". Hell, Oakland blew Denver out IN Denver. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill from NYC Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 Every player, especially QBs is going to have their good and bad games each year. The biggest thing we need from trent (aside from staying healthy for 16 games, not just 10) in 2009 is more Denver/KC games, and a lot fewer Mia, NYJ, NE*x2, Cleve, and SF games. And at some point, he's going to have to throw the ball downfield. We're not going anywhere if he continually checks down the outlet. True, but not that simple. The Bills need a credible center. The Bills need to pound out yardage on the ground when the other team is playing 8 guys back. The Bills need to be successful on 3rd and short. The Bills need Lee Evans to get open over the middle. The Bills backs need to do a better job holding onto passes, especially screens (unpopular but true). The Bills need a Tight End who doesn't suck. Look, Trent isn't great. He is however good for his experience level, and he doesn't do unexplainably stupid things such as toss the ball into the stands or throw ground balls at open receivers. In other words, there would seem to be a chance for him to improve. Still, improvement won't come easy in this system. Jauron is a candyass who plays "not to lose." I am not going to fully blame Trent for all of the checkdowns. Don't get me wrong, when he plays poorly he is ultimately responsible, but don't discount the negative impact Jauron has on this entire team, not just Trent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill from NYC Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 I'm gonna do it before someone beats me to it. Denver has a bad defense so it doesn't count Good call. Also, now Denver isn't such a rough place to win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 Here's your exact quote "This guy was downright awful in every meaningful game down the stretch". 1st off, if you include SF, which was AFTER the KC game, you can't say every, since KC would be included in every, then change it to majority to fit your response. 2nd, "Down the stretch" means heading towards the finish. You can't selectively start the stretch in the middle of the race-it doesn't fit the definition. So maybe your problem is with defintions of the word every & the term down the stretch. Or you just don't want to give Edwards a fair shake. Well, since you seem to want to make the debate about symantics and not about Edwards lousy play, let's look at it, shall we? Edwards didn't play against Miami or the Jets, so it would appear that the "stretch" for his season would include all the games I mentioned, wouldn't it? Since, you know, he played in all or parts of 14 games, and those would be the last 7 in which he played. Unless, of course, you want to count the games he didn't play among his not-so-poor performances too. That, at least, would lend some credence to your side of the debate. Yes, I included the SF game, so I suppose I should have said "every game against a NFL-caliber team down the stretch". I find it positively laughable that you're going to point to a game against one of the worst 3 teams in football as the indicator that Edwards is the long-term answer at QB. If you want to include that game and the Denver game, then go for it. That makes 2 out of the last 7 (or "stretch" games, as they would very appropriately be called) in which he played well enough for the team to win. That's not good enough. But again, you want to boil it down to your assumption that I simply don't want to give Trent a fair shake. That's just dumb. Really dumb. I am a Bills fan, why wouldn't I want the guy to be good? I do. I'd love for him to play winning football, especially against teams that don't suck. At some point, you have to look around the league and ask yourself how much of a "fair shake" you need to give the guy. I see Joe Flacco winning games with Baltimore. How about Matt Ryan? It didn't take Ben Roethlisberger long to start winning, did it? Philip Rivers went to the playoffs in his first year as a starter (2nd in the league). Even Tarvaris Jackson got his team to the playoffs this year. But Edwards beats up on some awful teams, gets manhandled by every opponent with a top 16 defense, and somehow we're supposed to believe that he's the guy. Sorry folks, I'm not buying it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Adams Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 Trents Poise- where when what. blitz and hes done for, scared, nervous, blind... I like Trent but watch him with a wary eye myself. What you say above is untrue. He's particularly and almost uncanny-effective against the blitz. He is downright AWFUL against a 3 man rush, ie, he does terrible with lots of people dropping in coverage. Watch the NE game: Bellicheck barely blitzed at all because they didn't need to. If Trent has a strength, it's that he plays very well when the heat comes (he reads and reacts well). His weakness is that he's cautious or maybe overthinks things when he has time to do so. So--we agree--there are concerns. Just disagreeing on this point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haven Moses Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 I feel like I've seen two different QB's. I was all for Trent, but you have to admit he has not been the same since his concussion against Arizona. IMHO, he could go either way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bizell Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 Good call. Also, now Denver isn't such a rough place to win. 50/50 shot ain't too bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1billsfan Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 My feelings on Trent Edwards future with the Bills are as follows... Given the stellar performances of Joe Flacco and Matt Ryan, Trent Edwards' third season is his "money" season. Trent Edwards needs to show us that he is "money" and will be here for a long time. The only offshoot excuse left is that the coaching does indeed suck. The line will be complete (no doubt we will get Mack, Unger or a real C through free agency), the RB situation will be complete and the receiver position will be complete. For those who say that we gave JP Losman more time, well yes we did but a major part of that mindset was because our line really sucked, the receiver position was poor with Peerless Price as the number 2, and McGahee only played well when he felt like it. Given those circumstances it was understandable to cut Losman some extended slack, obviously not anymore (and for those of you who said he sucked well take a bow because you were right). Now we have Trent Edwards going into his third season with a talented, veteran offense surrounding him. If he was truly going to ever put an indelible stamp as the unquestioned Bills starting QB for the next five to ten years then this 2009 season is it. Even bad coaching shouldn't be able to mask a franchise quality QB given the skilled players he will have at his disposal. I only hope that Trent realizes how important this season is to his football career and maybe not take the full 6 months of the offseason lollygaging on a California golf course. I guarantee you Brady and Manning's path to NFL success didn't include 6 months of tooling around in a golf cart. 2009 season...either play well or don't let the door hitchya on the way out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alphadawg7 Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 Well, since you seem to want to make the debate about symantics and not about Edwards lousy play, let's look at it, shall we? Edwards didn't play against Miami or the Jets, so it would appear that the "stretch" for his season would include all the games I mentioned, wouldn't it? Since, you know, he played in all or parts of 14 games, and those would be the last 7 in which he played. Unless, of course, you want to count the games he didn't play among his not-so-poor performances too. That, at least, would lend some credence to your side of the debate. Yes, I included the SF game, so I suppose I should have said "every game against a NFL-caliber team down the stretch". I find it positively laughable that you're going to point to a game against one of the worst 3 teams in football as the indicator that Edwards is the long-term answer at QB. If you want to include that game and the Denver game, then go for it. That makes 2 out of the last 7 (or "stretch" games, as they would very appropriately be called) in which he played well enough for the team to win. That's not good enough. But again, you want to boil it down to your assumption that I simply don't want to give Trent a fair shake. That's just dumb. Really dumb. I am a Bills fan, why wouldn't I want the guy to be good? I do. I'd love for him to play winning football, especially against teams that don't suck. At some point, you have to look around the league and ask yourself how much of a "fair shake" you need to give the guy. I see Joe Flacco winning games with Baltimore. How about Matt Ryan? It didn't take Ben Roethlisberger long to start winning, did it? Philip Rivers went to the playoffs in his first year as a starter (2nd in the league). Even Tarvaris Jackson got his team to the playoffs this year. But Edwards beats up on some awful teams, gets manhandled by every opponent with a top 16 defense, and somehow we're supposed to believe that he's the guy. Sorry folks, I'm not buying it. Also, to add to your post...in how many of these so called "good" games by Trent did he pass for more than 1TD? Hmmm...just one, KC and it was for 2 which is also the only time he did that this year and only the 3rd time in his career he had more than 1. How many of these good games had him throw for 300 yards? Um, ZERO...Good games for Trent are very modest games for good QB's...the history of terrible QB play in Buffalo seems like it has blinded people to take average games against way below average Defenses and some how prop them up to be outstanding games. Its sad when his best games would be considered off days in comparison to other good QB's considering the competition he was playing against...and yet this is the only thread people hold on to in order make the outlandish claim that he is somehow already playing good ball, has that "IT" about him, and hillariously draws comparison for his poise to legends like Montanna and Brady. The very poise that escaped him anytime even modest pressure was brought... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill from NYC Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 50/50 shot ain't too bad. Go back in history if you will and let me know how teams play in Denver one December rolls around, let alone any other time in that air. Your posts would indicate that you know enough about football to realize that it sucks to play in Denver, especially when the bad weather starts. Their teams have historically been built for that climate, unlike the Dick Levy Bills. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bizell Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 Go back in history if you will and let me know how teams play in Denver one December rolls around, let alone any other time in that air. Your posts would indicate that you know enough about football to realize that it sucks to play in Denver, especially when the bad weather starts. Their teams have historically been built for that climate, unlike the Dick Levy Bills. I agree. Denver historically is tough to play in their house. This year? Not so much, as Denver was exposed as a team that's not that good. Which brought me to the whole thing about "Yeah, we did well against Denver. When you look at the numbers, though...." and showing those stats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alphadawg7 Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 Go back in history if you will and let me know how teams play in Denver one December rolls around, let alone any other time in that air. Your posts would indicate that you know enough about football to realize that it sucks to play in Denver, especially when the bad weather starts. Their teams have historically been built for that climate, unlike the Dick Levy Bills. Um, first issue I have is you are talking about history in Denver, not the 2008 Broncos... Second issue I have is that we play in pretty crappy weather in Buffalo, so if anyone should be prepared its us considering how our winters are and how the winters are in many of our divisional games... Denver does have the altitude problem, but I wouldnt say weather gives Den an edge over us as we play in the same weather and should be fully prepared for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewildrabbit Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 All I can say is this, the Bills promoted a 10 year clipboard holding back up QB to offensive coordinator,who had trained in a offensive system that most teams have long since dumped and all the guy did was call shotgun passing plays most of the season. But oh yeah, its the QB's fault all right. JP's fault for certain! Turk Schonert is a loser, he never made the grade to even hold JP's jock strap as a starting QB in the NFL. He panics during games just the same way he did when he was given a chance to actually play. That 49er game showed me that the Bills will never field a great offense with him calling plays. Where is Mike Martz and his vaunted passing offensive scheme,its only alive and well in Buffalo. Its GONE from every other team in the NFL. The 49ers fired Martz, The Lions fired Martz, The Rams fired Martz. Lets review that greatest show on turf team shall we, 2 time MVP Kurt Warner,super talented wide receivers in Isaac Bruce and Torry Holt, as well as Az-Zahir Hakim and veteran Ricky Proehl. As well as future HoFer running back Marshall Faulk. Lets not forget some of the best offensive linemen on the planet at the time, 1999. They played on turf in a dome, so lets model the bills after that team! Well hell,if the bills were to get players like that Ram team had they might become the greatest show in snow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reddogblitz Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 Whenever the Bills were running the 2 minute O, they were very successful. The multiple drives at the end of the half or game were near perfection. The times they were not successful, was when the coaches stepped in to mess it up (Freddie Jackson run play/Preston fight). I point this out because the 2 minute is when Trent is allowed to call his own plays, plays he is comfortable with. I don't think he calls his own plays ever as is the case of most, if not all QBs in the NFL in the 21st century. You mention the drive with the Jackson run play/Preston fight. That was in the last 2 minutes. Also before that play there were about 40 seconds left. With about 15 left on the play clock, Trent runs over the sidelines to get the play from Dick because Dick didn't get it in on time. If he couldn't even call his own play in that situation, what would lead one to think he was calling his own plays ever? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ish Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 lets scream bloody murder and run him out of town, just like we did with JP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kota Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 lets scream bloody murder and run him out of town, just like we did with JP Every single problem this team has is due to coaching. There is a ton of talent on this roster and it's wasted. The Bills play a very vanilla offense and defense. When i can sit in my armchair at home and determine run vs pass based upon the formations the bills are running and their tendancies i wonder what a Real Football player knows. If you don't believe me go back and watch a game. Anytime the Bills put Reed or Evans in motion they put themself at the end of the line near a tackle or TE. 9 times out of 10 they are running the football. People believe that Trent has IT for several reasons. He doesn't appear to get rattled, he has poise in the pocket, He moves well in the pocket meaning he steps into it to avoid the rush instead of run out of it. He takes a hit to make a throw. Trent has all of the qualities of a good QB in this league. Things that people love about Peyton Manning and Tom Brady. The problem is that Trent's Line isn't as good and the coaching staff's play calling is as bland as you can get. I see HS football teams with more creativity in playcalling. To top it all off the Coaching staff doesn't put the best players on the field. They go with senority. The only tie a player gets benched is when they are horrible for half the season IE Melvin Fowler. Half way through the season last year they should have made Derek Fine the starting TE and started Steve Johnson on the other side of Evans. Put Reed in the slot because he can make the 3rd down catch and Trent Trusts him. Dont' get me started on the defense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill from NYC Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 When you look at the numbers, though...." and showing those stats. Which imo is THE problem with many fans today. People invest time and money if FF (I never even tried it) and care less about wins. Remember, to us old timers, ff really hasn't been around that long. Betting used to be the issue. If a qb "won" a game, guys would be pissed off if he didn't throw enough TDs to cover the spread. I am trying to reason with you. I don't want you to think that Trent is Peyton Manning. That would be stupid. But, the kid won in the harsh snow and winds of Denver and you are not being fair to downplay this accomplishment. Remember, he was in his second year. If you are just holding out and waiting for him to suck in order to be "right," I am thinking that you will have less fun. It's about winning, and of course being a Bills Fan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts