Big Turk Posted October 7, 2008 Author Share Posted October 7, 2008 Several pressures, several tackles for no gain, and a tipped pass today. Other than that, he sucked. Schobel is not the problem. Yes, it would be nice to see more sacks, but running one of the few guys actually playing out of town is not the answer. Again...the problem here is that he is being paid to be an elite DE in the NFL and is not performing anywhere close to that standard right now....elite DE's force teams to gameplan for them...when an OC puts a guy that earned the nickname "turnstile" here in Buffalo on him one-on-one with no help and he barely gets into the backfield, that says about all that needs to be said... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Posted October 7, 2008 Share Posted October 7, 2008 Schobel had a matchup he should be expected to dominate and he got completely and effectively neutralized How on Earth is he supposed to "dominate" a match-up when the secondary isn't covering anybody and the ball is out in 3 - 3.5 seconds on every single down? When a guy gets paid elite DE money, you have the right to expect him to perform like an elite DE. He has been barely adequate this year Yeah, he's been so inadequate that he leads the entire NFL in tackles by DLinemen. Definitely a worthy candidate to get ragged on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry Jabber Posted October 7, 2008 Share Posted October 7, 2008 We're stuck with Schobel until the end of the year. Maybe at the end of the 2008 season, we can trade and get something in return for him. I don't know who will be available in FA. Will DE be a top priority for us in the draft this year? I would hope so. Schobel has 1 sack in 5 games played this year, and including the 16 games from last year, he only has 7.5 sacks in 21 games. Those are bad numbers, and are definitely not worth the $7 million a year he is getting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted October 7, 2008 Share Posted October 7, 2008 How on Earth is he supposed to "dominate" a match-up when the secondary isn't covering anybody and the ball is out in 3 - 3.5 seconds on every single down? Yeah, he's been so inadequate that he leads the entire NFL in tackles by DLinemen. Definitely a worthy candidate to get ragged on. Simon, I'm a big fan of his and have little patience for his many critics. But I watched him yesterday, and he's having real trouble generating much of a rush. He didn't have much of a burst. I attribute it to his foot injury, but you know how that goes - fans overlook injuries when assessing a player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Turk Posted October 7, 2008 Author Share Posted October 7, 2008 Simon, I'm a big fan of his and have little patience for his many critics. But I watched him yesterday, and he's having real trouble generating much of a rush. He didn't have much of a burst. I attribute it to his foot injury, but you know how that goes - fans overlook injuries when assessing a player. he hasn't been injured the past year and a half... no different from last year...they could get no pressure with only their front 4... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ans4e64 Posted October 7, 2008 Share Posted October 7, 2008 Yeah, he's been so inadequate that he leads the entire NFL in tackles by DLinemen. Where do you get your figures, bonerforschobel.com? Do you not consider these players to be defensive lineman? DE Justin Smith 28 tackles DT Tank Tyler 23 tackles DE James Hall 22 tackles DT Domata Peko 22 tackles DT Tony Brown 21 tackles DE Trent Cole 21 tackles DE Travis Kirschke 21 tackles DE Turk McBride 21 tackles DT Albert Haynesworth 20 tackles DT Jay Ratliff 20 tackles DT Chris Hovan 19 tackles DE Aaron Kampman 19 tackles DE Robert Mathis 19 tackles DE Aaron Smith 19 tackles DE Aaron Schobel 19 tackles First, you argue that Schobel is good because he makes tackles... to which you might want to check that list and notice how bad those d-lineman are that are leading the league, with the exception of a few. Second, you can't even get your facts right on a point that actually proves the other side. If Schobel being good against the run and making tackles is all you've got for arguing that: as a right defensive end he is productive, I'd say you lose. I'll leave the "good against the run" and "makes tackles" to my left defensive end, I want my right defensive end getting sacks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Posted October 7, 2008 Share Posted October 7, 2008 Where do you get your figures, bonerforschobel.com? NFL.com I'll ignore the rest of your inaccuracies about my stated position simply because I'm not interested in conversing with folks that act like you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ans4e64 Posted October 7, 2008 Share Posted October 7, 2008 NFL.com Exactly, next time try clicking the "total" option so it sorts out the numbers. You'll see he's not number 1, he's actually tied for 11th. But like I said before, look at that list of players, I don't think your argument is valid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Posted October 7, 2008 Share Posted October 7, 2008 Where do you get your figures, bonerforschobel.com? Do you not consider these players to be defensive lineman? ... FWIW, those are total tackles (solos + assists). Schobel, however, is tied with 2 other linemen for the most number of solo tackles (18) in the league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ans4e64 Posted October 7, 2008 Share Posted October 7, 2008 Actually, I apologize for my snarkness, rough day. But I don't think its a valid argument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ans4e64 Posted October 7, 2008 Share Posted October 7, 2008 FWIW, those are total tackles (solos + assists). Schobel, however, is tied with 2 other linemen for the most number of solo tackles (18) in the league. That's fine, but that's not what he said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Posted October 7, 2008 Share Posted October 7, 2008 FWIW, those are total tackles (solos + assists). Schobel, however, is tied with 2 other linemen for the most number of solo tackles (18) in the league. I don't put a lot of stock in assists for jumping on; especially for DLinemen who frequently end up in piles. Schobel beats his man clean to make solo tackles with great regularity. It's just part of the reason I think he catches an undue amount of flak around here. DE's who play well-rounded games and are good at a lot of things aren't exactly growing on trees. The guy can play with strength, he can play with speed, he can drop into coverage effectively, and he plays a tremendous number of snaps going whole hog on each and every one. imo he's one of the last guys on this team that our share of JimRomequality fans should be calling out. Then again, it's stuff like that which makes a few of them JimRomequality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ans4e64 Posted October 7, 2008 Share Posted October 7, 2008 I don't put a lot of stock in assists for jumping on; especially for DLinemen who frequently end up in piles. Schobel beats his man clean to make solo tackles with great regularity. It's just part of the reason I think he catches an undue amount of flak around here. DE's who play well-rounded games and are good at a lot of things aren't exactly growing on trees. The guy can play with strength, he can play with speed, he can drop into coverage effectively, and he plays a tremendous number of snaps going whole hog on each and every one. imo he's one of the last guys on this team that our share of JimRomequality fans should be calling out. Then again, it's stuff like that which makes a few of them JimRomequality. I like Schobel's game for all the reasons you point out. The problem is, that game is usually found in an adequate, non-pro bowl, low salaried left defensive end. I think on other teams, Schobel would be a very valuable player, but with our lack of pass rush he just becomes one of everyone else, which is a good hardworking player that sticks his nose in there. I like Schobel for his effort and toughness, but we desperately need a pass rusher. We didn't pay him that money to be an average, all around DE. He's got to start making some noise in the sack department. When he does that, he's one of the best DE's in football, but when he doesn't, he becomes a dime-a-dozen player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerball Posted October 7, 2008 Share Posted October 7, 2008 Wow, 'odd' figures. 18 solo tackles and one assisted tackle? Guess that lends credence to the thought that he's doing it by himself. Simon--you were critical (or at least surprised) by Evans contract. Schobel is making $8.7M if this is correct. Is he worth it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Turk Posted October 7, 2008 Author Share Posted October 7, 2008 Wow, 'odd' figures. 18 solo tackles and one assisted tackle? Guess that lends credence to the thought that he's doing it by himself. Simon--you were critical (or at least surprised) by Evans contract. Schobel is making $8.7M if this is correct. Is he worth it? He is worth about 3 million based on what he has done the past year and a half... 8.7 million is what you pay someone like Michael Strahan... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Posted October 7, 2008 Share Posted October 7, 2008 Simon--you were critical (or at least surprised) by Evans contract. Schobel is making $8.7M if this is correct. Is he worth it? That's a realllllly good question. I'd tend to give a little more leeway to a DE having a higher contract because a) they're harder to find and b) they have more of an overall impact on the game. But if there's not 5-10 other Ends in the NFL making more than that, I'd probably say it's too high; as much for what the Bills are asking him to do as much as what they are getting out of him. He is worth about 3 million based on what he has done the past year and a half... Gee, thanks for yet another stellar contribution. You really know how to raise the quality of a discussion....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
My Friends Call Me Tebucky Posted October 7, 2008 Share Posted October 7, 2008 We're stuck with Schobel until the end of the year. Maybe at the end of the 2008 season, we can trade and get something in return for him. I don't know who will be available in FA. Will DE be a top priority for us in the draft this year? I would hope so. Schobel has 1 sack in 5 games played this year, and including the 16 games from last year, he only has 7.5 sacks in 21 games. Those are bad numbers, and are definitely not worth the $7 million a year he is getting. Since the other thread got locked before I could get it in, might as well post it here.. Has anybody pointed out that about 20 million of his contract extension was guaranteed? They aren't cutting him, they wouldn't be saving a full 7 million a year with the dead cap space considered. What's dumber, paying him 7 million in salary to underachieve, or paying him 20 million to not even see his extension? He'll be cut to save money, but it won't be until 2011 or 2012 IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pyrite Gal Posted October 7, 2008 Share Posted October 7, 2008 Since the other thread got locked before I could get it in, might as well post it here.. Has anybody pointed out that about 20 million of his contract extension was guaranteed? They aren't cutting him, they wouldn't be saving a full 7 million a year with the dead cap space considered. What's dumber, paying him 7 million in salary to underachieve, or paying him 20 million to not even see his extension? He'll be cut to save money, but it won't be until 2011 or 2012 IMO. On target! The talk of cutting him now or next year (and probably even the year after that are simply born out of frustration that the lead problem on Sunday was simply lack of defensive pressure. The Edwards injury, the McGee/Simpson injury, and other factors certainly contributed to a greater or lesser degree, but all of these factors at worst were so small compared to the negative impact of the lack of pressure they are not even worth mentioning without talking a lot about the lack of pressure on Warner. I know that for some folks it is all about the QB and they are almost psychotically addicted to chewing over the latest QB controversy, but that and the DB injuries are so NOT the story regarding the demolition Sunday that it does a disservice to even pretend they were the prime factor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry Jabber Posted October 7, 2008 Share Posted October 7, 2008 Maybe, the answer to Schobel's problem is that he needs a dominating DE to compliment him. I always felt that Schobel was a great complimentary DE to a better, more dominating DE (Like Phil Hansen was to Bruce Smith). I know we got spoiled with Bruce Smith, but we need to get someone who can get more pressure to the QB than Schobel, Kelsay & Denney. Those 3 guys have 1 sack each this year, we need more production from them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cornerville Posted October 7, 2008 Share Posted October 7, 2008 Maybe, the answer to Schobel's problem is that he needs a dominating DE to compliment him. I always felt that Schobel was a great complimentary DE to a better, more dominating DE (Like Phil Hansen was to Bruce Smith). I know we got spoiled with Bruce Smith, but we need to get someone who can get more pressure to the QB than Schobel, Kelsay & Denney. Those 3 guys have 1 sack each this year, we need more production from them. Bingo!!! Good post Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts