MarkAF43 Posted September 15, 2008 Share Posted September 15, 2008 No excuse for the replay equipment not working especially since CBS had feeds which could have been used. However for the record they reviewed the play during halftime of the Pitt game and it looks like it was a simultaneous catch and would not have been turned over.Also not denying that SD got screwed by early whistle but I give Hochuli credit for being upfront about making a FU instead of trying to excuse his way out of it. They followed the rules after acknowledging the FU and the rules are what suck. The worst call was Shanahan's. He was lucky that the low percentage gamble worked out. It's easy to admit a mistake when the end result is in favor of the home team. I doubt he would have been that forthcoming if the game were in SD and what are you talking about simultaneous catch? That one was clear as day, Chambers made the catch, was down and fumbled. A review would have kept the ball in the Chargers hands Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steely Dan Posted September 15, 2008 Share Posted September 15, 2008 It's easy to admit a mistake when the end result is in favor of the home team. I doubt he would have been that forthcoming if the game were in SD and what are you talking about simultaneous catch? That one was clear as day, Chambers made the catch, was down and fumbled. A review would have kept the ball in the Chargers hands He would have admitted it, Monday. He's right it was a simultaneous catch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truth on hold Posted September 15, 2008 Share Posted September 15, 2008 nm why they have a quick whistle in situations like that rather than letting them play it out and review it, i'll never know. this has been going on forever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LabattBlue Posted September 15, 2008 Share Posted September 15, 2008 I thought Officials were instructed to let questionable plays continue, so this would not happen Exactly right. Hoculi didn't blow the whistle inadvertently(this implies that he had the whistle in his mouth and blew air into it by accident). It was a premature whistle and in this case there was no reason for it. The QB was not in danger of being hit. I don't care how good of a reputation he has, he needs to be reprimanded in a big way for this f*** up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloWings Posted September 15, 2008 Share Posted September 15, 2008 why they have a quick whistle in situations like that rather than letting them play it out and review it, i'll never know. this has been going on forever. That's my whole problem with this....I've never been a referee of anything, so I can't say what's going through his mind. The question is how sure was he about the call. If he's not dead-on, 100% sure either way (fumble or incomplete pass), he should let it play out and use the review to figure out the right call. It's probably easier said than done, but the NFL should burn this into the refs' brains. The Chargers are just the most recent team to get screwed because of this, since it's happened a lot. I think the NFL has done the best they could in situations like this...you need a cut & dried rule, so calling the play dead where the ball was fumbled is probably the best they can do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloWings Posted September 15, 2008 Share Posted September 15, 2008 Exactly right. Hoculi didn't blow the whistle inadvertently. It was a premature whistle and in this case there was no reason for it. The QB was not in danger of being hit. I don't care how good of a reputation he has, he needs to be reprimanded in a big way for this f*** up. In defense of Hochuli, he blew the whistle right away, thinking that it was an incomplete pass. Nevertheless, he should still take some discipline....not that the Chargers give a sh*t right now. They'll get a letter from Goodell apologizing, but they're still 0-2. I wonder how much Mike Shanahan was thinking that since they REALLY got away with one, he'd give the Chargers a chance to win anyway by going for 2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
webtoe Posted September 15, 2008 Share Posted September 15, 2008 In defense of Hochuli, he blew the whistle right away, thinking that it was an incomplete pass. Nevertheless, he should still take some discipline....not that the Chargers give a sh*t right now. They'll get a letter from Goodell apologizing, but they're still 0-2. I wonder how much Mike Shanahan was thinking that since they REALLY got away with one, he'd give the Chargers a chance to win anyway by going for 2. I think that is exactly what Shanahan was doing, and I give him props for doing it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VOR Posted September 15, 2008 Share Posted September 15, 2008 There was no excuse for blowing that whistle. None whatsoever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wraith Posted September 15, 2008 Share Posted September 15, 2008 Didn't they change the rule so that even if the whistle blew, if on replay it was clear who was going to recover the fumble, they could still over turn the play? I swear they did. Either way, this call was inexcusable. The ball went backwards. There was no possible way it was an incomplete pass whether Cutler's arm was going forward or not. Horrible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deep2evans Posted September 15, 2008 Share Posted September 15, 2008 Good ol' Merrill Hoge just stating on sportscenter that "you cannot expect Hochuli to make that call any different because the angle he was viewing the play from." He went on to say that because Hochuli was behind Cutler he can't tell whether it went forward or not. You gotta be !@#$in kidding me Merrill you idiot. Every fan of the league has seen 20+ "empty hand" throws when the ball slips out, and EVERY TIME IT'S A FUMBLE. Hochuli was 10 yards behind Cutler, he probably could have caught the damn thing for Christ sake. I know the NFL speaking heads are going to do their best to brush this under the rug and state how it didn't cost the Chargers the game, but it did for sure, more than any call I've ever seen. It's frustrating to know this could happen to us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fezmid Posted September 15, 2008 Share Posted September 15, 2008 I've never been a referee of anything, so I can't say what's going through his mind. The question is how sure was he about the call. If he's not dead-on, 100% sure either way (fumble or incomplete pass), he should let it play out and use the review to figure out the right call. It's probably easier said than done, but the NFL should burn this into the refs' brains. I've done high school football officiating, and that's the rule they teach you from day one - don't make the call unless you're 100% certain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cookiemonster Posted September 15, 2008 Share Posted September 15, 2008 Maybe his big biceps got in the way of seeing the fumble! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koufax Posted September 15, 2008 Share Posted September 15, 2008 The worst call was Shanahan's. He was lucky that the low percentage gamble worked out. How do you figure? Let's walk through some percentages... Let's go ahead and be generous and call the extra point 100% and take out the minute chance of a miss. What is the percentage chance that the Broncos convert the 2-point conversion? What is the percentage chance that they win if the game goes to overtime? I think that the chance of winning of the game goes to overtime might have favored the Broncos slightly, especially with the emotional blow to the Chargers in the final seconds, but realistically it would be about 50/50 right? Two evenly matched teams who scored at will and played an evenly matched 38-38 game with two evenly matched kickers. Probably not exactly 50%, but something pretty close and not too many reasons to think it is significantly different (Chargers have an edge in the return game which would work against the Broncos slightly too, but I digress and I will leave this at 50%). What is the likelihood that the Broncos convert the 2-point conversion? If it is greater than the number we assigned to the above question, then they should go for two. Generally in recent experience the success rate in the NFL is in the neighborhood of 50%. But given conservative coaches in general, I think that this could be assumed to include a fair number of desperate gambles when teams need the 2 points, not when they think it is the best risk/reward. So the high powered 36 completion, 350 passing yards, 4 passing TDs Denver offense vs. SD defense of that day is probably better than the typical 2-point conversion situation to put it lightly....the same pass D that 7 days earlier gave up 23 completions for 247 including the game winner. I'm going to put in a make believe conservative 55% here. I realistically think it would be a bunch more than that, but it doesn't need to be for this argument. So in my mind: #1 Chances of Broncos winning if they go for 1 and play OT: 50% #2 Chances of Broncos winning if they go for 2 at least 55% So unless one or both of my numbers above is off that the first number above is GREATER than the second number, then NOT going for two would have been the dumb risky move. Giving up a better than even chance at winning a game right there to a 50/50 hope you can pull it out in overtime. I don't know if Shannahan felt all "Gambler-ish" and daring, but I very strongly think that when you actually think about it there is nothing actually daring about it, and it was simply the decision that gave his team the best chance for a win. I guess it was gutsy because if they missed it it would be "his" fault and if they lost in overtime they could blame the coin or something, but in terms of his team winning the football game it was the most rational logical choice. I even go so far as to say it is a little embarrassing that the majority of head coaches would have made a mistake and kicked the extra point, and all of our journalists think that going for it was taking a big risk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloWings Posted September 15, 2008 Share Posted September 15, 2008 I've done high school football officiating, and that's the rule they teach you from day one - don't make the call unless you're 100% certain. The problem is...if you're the only official in position to make the call, you have to make a call. If you don't have replay, then you're the only one on the hot seat if you blow it. At least the NFL officials have the fallback of replay, but even so, I think a lot of officials are afraid to make a call, fearing they'll get it overturned by replay. Just make the call....don't worry about your ego. I think that's what Hochuli did, but I still have no idea how he though that could have been a forward pass. I've seen numerous plays like this where the fumble/incomplete pass call is questionable - I remember the Bills got hosed against the Packers once when Ahman Green caught a swing pass, took one or two steps, then dropped the ball. A Bills defender picked it up and started running the other way (would have been an easy TD) when the play was blown dead. It was tough to tell live, but replay showed that Green caught the ball cleanly - didn't bobble it or anything - and began to run with it when he simply dropped the ball. It was a bang-bang play, all happening within a second. At the time, the play was not reviewable because the official blew the play dead, thinking it was an incomplete pass. Had they let the players play it out, THEN go to replay, the Bills would've had a TD. Green Bay went on to score and won the game by less than a TD, I believe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fezmid Posted September 15, 2008 Share Posted September 15, 2008 The problem is...if you're the only official in position to make the call, you have to make a call. If you don't have replay, then you're the only one on the hot seat if you blow it. Right - but when in doubt, you're supposed to let the play run - ESPECIALLY if you have replay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niagara 66 Posted September 15, 2008 Share Posted September 15, 2008 I think that is exactly what Shanahan was doing, and I give him props for doing it. Me, too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted September 15, 2008 Share Posted September 15, 2008 In defense of Hochuli, he blew the whistle right away, thinking that it was an incomplete pass. Nevertheless, he should still take some discipline....not that the Chargers give a sh*t right now. They'll get a letter from Goodell apologizing, but they're still 0-2. I wonder how much Mike Shanahan was thinking that since they REALLY got away with one, he'd give the Chargers a chance to win anyway by going for 2. I was thinking that too... Looking at it, Shanny was just being a dick ala Beledick*! If he wanted to grant quarter to the Bolts, he would have allowed it to go to OT by kicking for the PAT. Two sides to this argument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moose Posted September 15, 2008 Share Posted September 15, 2008 It reminds me of a supposedly true quote by a referee once upon a time: "I blow 'em as I see 'em." Blow 'em indeed! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
webtoe Posted September 15, 2008 Share Posted September 15, 2008 Two sides to this argument. Your right, but the way the defenses were playing, playing OT would essentially have been deciding the game with a coin flip. Each team would have very easily gotten into field goal range. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boomer860 Posted September 15, 2008 Share Posted September 15, 2008 Hoculi is an overblown show boat. Could he be on the take? Its posible Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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