This McGahee crap is getting old...

[Boatdrinks]

All this discussion of Mcgahee is laughable at best. I love the most popular idea. Willis is crap, shoulda kept Henry sooo...let's TRADE HIM because every other team in the freakin' NFL will be throwing draft picks at us for our garbage,right? Brilliant! But wait, how about # 2 in popularity? Goes something like this: Willis seems to have great games only against the Jets. So he must only be MOTIVATED to play against them, right? Hmmm. How about maybe our OL kicks the living crap out of the Jets D line and has for years, so maybe THATS why there so much room to run out there. News flash folks. We have ONE OF THE WORST OL's in football, period! We get dominated up front by most teams, and we happened to play the toughest schedule in football this year. We lost the OL DL battle against NE, SD, MIN, CHI, TEN, BAL, JAX, DET. That's over half our games. WM's best year here was in 2004, when we had Jonas Jennings, Ruben Brown(the best O lineman this team has drafted in 20 years), Tucker was playing well and amazingly Mike Williams actually had a solid season that year and most thought he had turned the corner. So it's not really surprising that as the line deteriorated, so did WM's numbers. We still do not have a solid run blocking Center or RG. Our RT situation is a joke. If we aren't the worst run blocking line in the NFL we aren't far off. Get a couple solid blockers and the running game will improve. It's all about matchups and winning the battle in the trenches. Oh, and I almost forgot #3 .. Trade for Travis Henry! How soon we forget around here. Travis created his own demise. See, TH approached the Bills for some help. He wanted to renegotiate his deal only two seasons after he was drafted because he was BROKE! He really needed another signing bonus which was only obtainable by signing an extension. Tom Donahoe was surprised and probably a little worried about his RB (drug problem? gambling problem? not very intelligent and being taken advantage of) This one had red flags all over it! TD obliged Henry but only extended him at his current salary! He had probably outplayed that deal, but Donahoe limited the teams liabilities to Travis and immediately started planning to draft his successor. TH wrote his own ticket out of Buffalo. And he actually had to BUY ONE to get back to Buffalo for this years game. The Einstein MISSED THE TEAM FLIGHT and had to fly commercial. So no tears for Mr Henry, please. And lets worry about our O and D lines, which are the weakest ares on this team. WM is NOT elite by any means, and a RB makes sense somewhere in this draft as they have the shortest career span. But he's far from the worst and good enough to win with. Besides, he's under contract for one more season. It's not an issue. Either the Bills extend him (unlikely) or he goes out and plays for a contract in 2007. A holdout is unlikely as well. WM wants to get paid. But this team has bigger holes to fill.

[Mantis Toboggan M.D]

next time, separate with paragraphs.

[keepthefaith]

All this discussion of Mcgahee is laughable at best. I love the most popular idea. Willis is crap, shoulda kept Henry sooo...let's TRADE HIM because every other team in the freakin' NFL will be throwing draft picks at us for our garbage,right? Brilliant! But wait, how about # 2 in popularity? Goes something like this: Willis seems to have great games only against the Jets. So he must only be MOTIVATED to play against them, right? Hmmm. How about maybe our OL kicks the living crap out of the Jets D line and has for years, so maybe THATS why there so much room to run out there. News flash folks. We have ONE OF THE WORST OL's in football, period! We get dominated up front by most teams, and we happened to play the toughest schedule in football this year. We lost the OL DL battle against NE, SD, MIN, CHI, TEN, BAL, JAX, DET. That's over half our games. WM's best year here was in 2004, when we had Jonas Jennings, Ruben Brown(the best O lineman this team has drafted in 20 years), Tucker was playing well and amazingly Mike Williams actually had a solid season that year and most thought he had turned the corner. So it's not really surprising that as the line deteriorated, so did WM's numbers. We still do not have a solid run blocking Center or RG. Our RT situation is a joke. If we aren't the worst run blocking line in the NFL we aren't far off. Get a couple solid blockers and the running game will improve. It's all about matchups and winning the battle in the trenches. Oh, and I almost forgot #3 .. Trade for Travis Henry! How soon we forget around here. Travis created his own demise. See, TH approached the Bills for some help. He wanted to renegotiate his deal only two seasons after he was drafted because he was BROKE! He really needed another signing bonus which was only obtainable by signing an extension. Tom Donahoe was surprised and probably a little worried about his RB (drug problem? gambling problem? not very intelligent and being taken advantage of) This one had red flags all over it! TD obliged Henry but only extended him at his current salary! He had probably outplayed that deal, but Donahoe limited the teams liabilities to Travis and immediately started planning to draft his successor. TH wrote his own ticket out of Buffalo. And he actually had to BUY ONE to get back to Buffalo for this years game. The Einstein MISSED THE TEAM FLIGHT and had to fly commercial. So no tears for Mr Henry, please. And lets worry about our O and D lines, which are the weakest ares on this team. WM is NOT elite by any means, and a RB makes sense somewhere in this draft as they have the shortest career span. But he's far from the worst and good enough to win with. Besides, he's under contract for one more season. It's not an issue. Either the Bills extend him (unlikely) or he goes out and plays for a contract in 2007. A holdout is unlikely as well. WM wants to get paid. But this team has bigger holes to fill.

 

What's more laughable are the people that continually put Willis on a pedastal when anyone with a good set of football eyes can see that his effort is inconsistent, his decision making is often tentative and his quickness for a starting NFL back is only average. Also he doesn't excel in short yardage situations. Yes, he looks good running through a big hole, just like any other back. He's an average starting NFL back at best and he deserves to be paid like an average back if the Bills want to keep him. Yawn.

[The Big Cat]

What's more laughable are the people that continually put Willis on a pedastal when anyone with a good set of football eyes can see that his effort is inconsistent, his decision making is often tentative and his quickness for a starting NFL back is only average. Also he doesn't excel in short yardage situations. Yes, he looks good running through a big hole, just like any other back. He's an average starting NFL back at best and he deserves to be paid like an average back if the Bills want to keep him. Yawn.

 

[Pass the Pipe]

Finally a guy that gets it! I couldn't agree with you more.

[The Big Cat]

Finally a guy that gets it! I couldn't agree with you more.

 

with whom do you agree because there have been two polar opinions offered thus far

[BuffOrange]

next time, separate with paragraphs.

 

Yeah, I didn't read it either, but I agree the discussion is crap for two reasons:

A) everyone's opinion seems to change week-to-week.

B) it's not fantasy football. In real football, the RB position just isn't that important in the grand scheme of things. LT2 I think proved he was a great player prior to Brees becoming good in a crappy offense, but as long as neither him or Sammy Morris is your starting back I don't think it really matters. I mean the difference between the 3rd best RB in the league and the 15th best is extremely marginal.

[kgun]

"TH wrote his own ticket out of Buffalo. And he actually had to BUY ONE to get back to Buffalo for this years game. The Einstein MISSED THE TEAM FLIGHT and had to fly commercial. So no tears for Mr Henry, please. And lets worry about our O and D lines, which are the weakest ares on this team. "

 

 

Freaking hailarious. I never did like that ugly ass mug.

 

 

McGahee has fumbled on a few occasions, and mabey, mabey he is not an elite back. YET. I would love to see him run behind a proven OL with established linemen; not plugins we have used since he arrived. We do not have one OL man who has started for more then three/four years. {CV no joint} don't count.

 

The trouble is not McGahee, let him dance to find a hole. Next year, hopefully a "whole" lot of open spaces will be there for him to fred astaire right into.

[Ozymandius]

Yeah, I didn't read it either, but I agree the discussion is crap for two reasons:

A) everyone's opinion seems to change week-to-week.

B) it's not fantasy football. In real football, the RB position just isn't that important in the grand scheme of things. LT2 I think proved he was a great player prior to Brees becoming good in a crappy offense, but as long as neither him or Sammy Morris is your starting back I don't think it really matters. I mean the difference between the 3rd best RB in the league and the 15th best is extremely marginal.

I agree. To me, there are only a handful of difference makers at the RB position. LT2, LJ, Gore (when healthy), MJD, SJax. That's about it. Everyone else relies heavily on their o-line for success. Not that these elite guys don't but they can also create stuff on their own.

[cåblelady]

Willis wants to go to Hollywood.

[Mike in Syracuse]

tldr

[Beerball]

tldr

tired laundry dries repeatedly?

[generaLee83]

next time, separate with paragraphs.

 

 

honestly.

 

 

This could be the post of the year but I made it through one line because aesthetically it is crap.

 

sorry

[In space no one can hear]

All this discussion of Mcgahee is laughable at best. I love the most popular idea. Willis is crap, shoulda kept Henry sooo...let's TRADE HIM because every other team in the freakin' NFL will be throwing draft picks at us for our garbage,right? Brilliant! But wait, how about # 2 in popularity? Goes something like this: Willis seems to have great games only against the Jets. So he must only be MOTIVATED to play against them, right? Hmmm. How about maybe our OL kicks the living crap out of the Jets D line and has for years, so maybe THATS why there so much room to run out there. News flash folks. We have ONE OF THE WORST OL's in football, period! We get dominated up front by most teams, and we happened to play the toughest schedule in football this year. We lost the OL DL battle against NE, SD, MIN, CHI, TEN, BAL, JAX, DET. That's over half our games. WM's best year here was in 2004, when we had Jonas Jennings, Ruben Brown(the best O lineman this team has drafted in 20 years), Tucker was playing well and amazingly Mike Williams actually had a solid season that year and most thought he had turned the corner. So it's not really surprising that as the line deteriorated, so did WM's numbers. We still do not have a solid run blocking Center or RG. Our RT situation is a joke. If we aren't the worst run blocking line in the NFL we aren't far off. Get a couple solid blockers and the running game will improve. It's all about matchups and winning the battle in the trenches. Oh, and I almost forgot #3 .. Trade for Travis Henry! How soon we forget around here. Travis created his own demise. See, TH approached the Bills for some help. He wanted to renegotiate his deal only two seasons after he was drafted because he was BROKE! He really needed another signing bonus which was only obtainable by signing an extension. Tom Donahoe was surprised and probably a little worried about his RB (drug problem? gambling problem? not very intelligent and being taken advantage of) This one had red flags all over it! TD obliged Henry but only extended him at his current salary! He had probably outplayed that deal, but Donahoe limited the teams liabilities to Travis and immediately started planning to draft his successor. TH wrote his own ticket out of Buffalo. And he actually had to BUY ONE to get back to Buffalo for this years game. The Einstein MISSED THE TEAM FLIGHT and had to fly commercial. So no tears for Mr Henry, please. And lets worry about our O and D lines, which are the weakest ares on this team. WM is NOT elite by any means, and a RB makes sense somewhere in this draft as they have the shortest career span. But he's far from the worst and good enough to win with. Besides, he's under contract for one more season. It's not an issue. Either the Bills extend him (unlikely) or he goes out and plays for a contract in 2007. A holdout is unlikely as well. WM wants to get paid. But this team has bigger holes to fill.

 

Did someone actually read this visual masterpiece? I give you credit if you did.

[marauderswr80]

Its not that I dont "hate" McGahee, I just think hes not performing to his potential!

 

I see McGahee play great, but most of the time he just seems to be lazy on the field. I dont know what it is...

 

I think McGahee has the ability to be alot better then he has been. Can we blame the OL for not being good, sure we could.

 

But after that Balitmore game he failed to show, granted its a tough defense, but picking up blitzes it was if he could careless, and to be honest we dont need that on this team.

 

Do I like McGahee, yea I do, do I think he can be better? YES I do.......

[1billsfan]

McGahee's "too cool for school, it is what it is, mr. nonchalant" attitude is the reason why he couldn't crack 1000 yards. There are two Willis', the one where he runs like a bat out of hell vs. the Jets, and the one against the rest of the league where the first guy that touches McGahee makes him fall down like a sack of wet potatoes. He needs to get a more workmen-like professional attitude or he's history in this town. He seems immature to me in that he picks and chooses when to give a damn. We all witnessed Thurman's work ethic and demeanor, and we all can see when someone isn't trying all the time.

[Boatdrinks]

next time, separate with paragraphs.

 

Alright fer crisssakes! I'll use paragraphs next time. I thought this was football discussion, not grammar and composition. Seriously, though my point is that the team has larger issues than a peripheral position like RB. And he's under contract. WM is not an elite back. But about half the teams in the playoffs this year don't have elite RB's. The focus should be on our worst areas.

[Pyrite Gal]

Willis wants to go to Hollywood.

 

and he told you this when you slept with him when? I hope you were being sarcastic as it is amazing how many mindreaders there are who know what someone thinks or feels.

 

For the Bills, they will be buffeted contractually when FA begins (and even prematurely if WM stupidly decides to hold out (his leverage in such a situation is pretty low prior to the draft when the Bills might take alternatives and low afterward because either they will or it will be so late in the process he would hurt his value to his teammates and other teams.

 

The right answer appears to be Stay the Course. This was a stupid non-strategy in a real situation in Iraq as we had committed far too few troops to maintain the initiative and do the police work necessary (and since our brave soldiers are not policemen anyway and our intelligence was slam dunk bad going to war there was simply a big mistake). However, we retain a lot of initiative and advantage with WM through mid-season next year (and even beyond if he produces enough next season to be worth tagging) so stay the course.

[d_wag]

and he told you this when you slept with him when? I hope you were being sarcastic as it is amazing how many mindreaders there are who know what someone thinks or feels.

 

http://www.rnews.com/Sports/Story_2004.cfm...&category=3

 

Running back Willis McGahee; "I'm planning on making it to Hollywood. I have to get this face on the big screen man. You know I got to let people see me all the time. I don't need a helmet blocking everything. i need to be right there where people come see my premiere."

[Fan in San Diego]

Good post. But sadly, the truth and logic has little room here at TBD. Everyone should note, watch highlight films of LT. Usually no one is touching him until 10 or 15 yards past the LOS. In otherwords, LT has great blocking up front.

[Peter]

Good post. But sadly, the truth and logic has little room here at TBD. Everyone should note, watch highlight films of LT. Usually no one is touching him until 10 or 15 yards past the LOS. In otherwords, LT has great blocking up front.

 

You are going to confuse the Willis Haters with logic and good reasoning.

[Fan in San Diego]

You are going to confuse the Willis Haters with logic and good reasoning.

 

No, there is usually an absense of truth and logic with Willis haters. I get a kick out of the mind readers who can determine what Willis thinks and his motives are from watching him on TV. Usually you have to live with someone before having that insight, and even then most people get it wrong.

[Dawgg]

It's pretty apparent that you have a fondness for players with great potential and little production.

 

You were clamoring for Rob Johnson from the get-go and even after repeated failures on the field and a clear lack of production, you were the first to stand up with excuses... 3 teams later, Rob Johnson was soon out of the league.

 

Now it appears as though Willis is your new crush

 

You are going to confuse the Willis Haters with logic and good reasoning.

[Mike in Syracuse]

tired laundry dries repeatedly?

 

Too Long, Didn't Read

 

Sorry, I have a really short attention span

[Peter]

It's pretty apparent that you have a fondness for players with great potential and little production.

 

Production?

 

Which Buffalo Bills running back was the fastest to rush for 2,000 yards in their career as a Bill?

 

You may also want to compare RJ's production with JP's (who, most everybody here thinks, may just be the Bills' QB of the future).

[LabattBlue]

Production?

 

Which Buffalo Bills running back was the fastest to rush for 2,000 yards in their career as a Bill?

This stat doesn't mean sh--. Based on this WM is better than OJ, Thurman or even Joe Cribbs? To this point in his career, WM can't even sniff the jocks of any of these 3 players.

[Pass the Pipe]

with whom do you agree because there have been two polar opinions offered thus far

 

 

I agree with the author

[Peter]

This stat doesn't mean sh--. Based on this WM is better than OJ, Thurman or even Joe Cribbs? To this point in his career, WM can't even sniff the jocks of any of these 3 players.

 

Of course it does.

 

He asked about production. That is production.

 

Where in my post did I say that WM is better than OJ or Thurman? I never said that, and I do not think that either.

 

I am glad that you mentioned OJ though. I was pretty young when he was with the Bills. OJ's first years with the team are fairly instructive about the importance of having a good offensive line. You may or may not know that OJ was not as productive in his first few years as he was once the Bills upgraded the line. I specifically remember people complaining that he "danced" too much. Does that refrain sound familiar.

 

It was not until another Saban (Lou) became the head coach and the Bills upgraded the line that OJ reached his potential as a RB. You may want to ask how much importance Edge places on having a good offensive line now that he has been with the Cardinals for a year.

[Peter]

Edge's average last year - 4.2 yards per carry.

 

Edge's average this year - 3.4 yards per carry.

 

Gee, I wonder if the Cards' offensive line had anything to do with his average plummeting by .8 yards per carry?!?

[LabattBlue]

Of course it does.

 

He asked about production. That is production.

Just because he got to 2000 yards faster than any other RB in Bills history means he is productive? Show me YPC, TD's in a season, yards in a season and come talk to me about production. Not some cumulative stat that proves that the Bills don't have a good track record of developing RB's in their first three years.

 

I'll say it until I'm blue in the face...he is a straight ahead runner with average speed & no elusiveness, who either doesn't have the strength or the willingness to be a power runner. Quite possibly the easiest player to replace on the entire team.

[Peter]

Just because he got to 2000 yards faster than any other RB in Bills history means he is productive? Show me YPC, TD's in a season, yards in a season and come talk to me about production. Not some cumulative stat that proves that the Bills don't have a good track record of developing RB's in their first three years.

 

I'll say it until I'm blue in the face...he is a straight ahead runner with average speed & no elusiveness, who either doesn't have the strength or the willingness to be a power runner. Quite possibly the easiest player to replace on the entire team.

 

See post about Edge above. [by the way, I recall posters on this board saying before the season that WM was no Edge].

 

Speed - He outran defensive backs on his 57 yard touchdown.

 

Strength - He ran over Ray friggen Lewis this past week to get a first down.

 

He is not the fastest guy on the team or the strongest, but he has a combination of speed and strength for a running back that makes him pretty damn good. I just wish that the line gave him more time and space.

[Ramius]

Just because he got to 2000 yards faster than any other RB in Bills history means he is productive? Show me YPC, TD's in a season, yards in a season and come talk to me about production. Not some cumulative stat that proves that the Bills don't have a good track record of developing RB's in their first three years.

 

I'll say it until I'm blue in the face...he is a straight ahead runner with average speed & no elusiveness, who either doesn't have the strength or the willingness to be a power runner. Quite possibly the easiest player to replace on the entire team.

 

You willis haters confuse me. Always changing your story just to go out of your way to bash him. I thought all he did was dance. Now he's a straight ahead runner?

[LabattBlue]

See post about Edge above. [by the way, I recall posters on this board saying before the season that WM was no Edge].

 

Speed - He outran defensive backs on his 57 yard touchdown.

 

Strength - He ran over Ray friggen Lewis this past week to get a first down.

 

He is not the fastest guy on the team or the strongest, but he has a combination of speed and strength for a running back that makes him pretty damn good. I just wish that the line gave him more time and space.

Who cares about Edge, I thought we were talking about WM. Did you ever consider that maybe the reason his stats are down is because he has little left in the tank after taking a pounding in Indy for many seasons?

 

As far as WM goes, he has carried the ball over 850 times in his career and you want to cite one or two instances to make a case against my stance on WM. Keep trying...

 

He is a straight ahead runner with average speed & no elusiveness, who either doesn't have the strength or the willingness to be a power runner. Quite possibly the easiest player to replace on the entire team.

[Peter]

Who cares about Edge, I thought we were talking about WM. Did you ever consider that maybe the reason his stats are down is because he has little left in the tank after taking a pounding in Indy for many seasons?

 

As far as WM goes, he has carried the ball over 850 times in his career and you want to cite one or two instances to make a case against my stance on WM. Keep trying...

 

He is a straight ahead runner with average speed & no elusiveness, who either doesn't have the strength or the willingness to be a power runner. Quite possibly the easiest player to replace on the entire team.

 

As for Edge, the .8 yards per carry difference illustrates just how important an offensive line is. I got to believe that even you realized that notwithstanding your post.

 

As for WM, you said he is not fast. I gave you a prime example that contradicts your thesis. If he were not fast, he would not have outran defensive backs ever. The same thing with strength. If he were not strong, he never would have run over Ray Lewis.

 

If you want to go over each of his carries over his career, come on down to Miami and we can do that on my new Sony XBR.

[LabattBlue]

You willis haters confuse me. Always changing your story just to go out of your way to bash him. I thought all he did was dance. Now he's a straight ahead runner?

...or maybe you just read what you want to read so you can come up with a witty post.

[LabattBlue]

As for Edge, the .8 yards per carry difference illustrates just how important an offensive line is. I got to believe that even you realized that notwithstanding your post.

 

As for WM, you said he is not fast. I gave you a prime example that contradicts your thesis. If he were not fast, he would not have outran defensive backs ever. The same thing with strength. If he were not strong, he never would have run over Ray Lewis.

 

If you want to go over each of his carries over his career, come on down to Miami and we can do that on my new Sony XBR.

You're not budging in your defense of WM, so I will conclude this debate with...

 

 

Learn from your mistakes...Didn't you defend DB until the very end also???

[smokinandjokin]

Quite possibly the easiest player to replace on the entire team.

 

With who? A-Train? Are you nuts?

 

This is similar to the thinking that Pat Williams was just some fat guy who clogged the middle and could be easily replaced by Sam Adams and some other fat guy.

[LabattBlue]

With who? A-Train? Are you nuts?

 

Just like Pat Williams was just some fat guy who clogged the middle and could be easily replaced by Sam Adams and some other fat guy.

Did I say that a DT was easy to replace? NO! Replacing a medicore RB? It wouldn't be the biggest challenge Marv has ever faced. It doesn't have to be Thomas either. There will be plenty of alternatives in FA or the draft.

[smokinandjokin]

Did I say that a DT was easy to replace? NO! Replacing a medicore RB? It wouldn't be the biggest challenge Marv has ever faced. It doesn't have to be Thomas either. There will be plenty of alternatives in FA or the draft.

 

You focus all your time thinking about what McGahee doesn't do that you pay no attention to what he does do. You are not going to just throw a dart at a cheap free agent or mid-to-low round draft pick who will gain 1200 yards. Can it be done? Of course, with a TON of luck. You're a fool if you think it's likely.

[Peter]

You're not budging in your defense of WM, so I will conclude this debate with...

Learn from your mistakes...Didn't you defend DB until the very end also???

 

I did. I also do not regret taking the position that the starting QB position should not be given away without competition.

 

I also do not regret taking the position (for years now) that the key to the Bills' fortunes lies with upgrading the lines.

 

I also do not regret defending WM against the haters on this board who seem to hate him for reasons that having nothing to do with his performance.

 

Haters: WM does not have any heart and will not play with an injury.

Fact: WM played with broken ribs and a bum anke for the second half of the season.

 

Haters: WM is not a Buffalo guy and will leave the first chance he gets.

Fact: WM buys a house in Buffalo and would like to extend his contract with the Bills. Just before the first game of the season, WM says that he would like to win the game for the City of Buffalo.

 

Haters: WM has no speed and cannot break the long run.

Fact: WM ran for a 57 yard TD.

 

Haters: WM dances (when they are not saying he is only a straight ahead runner).

Fact: How often does our line allow the defense to penetrate behind the line of scrimmage.

 

WM is the least of our worries. The sooner we upgrade the O-line the sooner we will go to the playoffs.