Re-Tooled or Re-Packaged?: Our new offensive line

[cmdevisser]

Much has been made of the reworked offensive line and the effect it has had on Losman and the offense, but I don't think people realize exactly how much of an effect the new line has really had.

 

In the 7 games before the bye week the Bills gave up 21 sacks.

Willis McGahee ran 150 times for 564 yards and 3.76 YPC.

 

In the 7 games since the bye week the Bills have given up 20 sacks.

Willis McGahee has run 76 times for 308 yards and 4.0 YPC.

 

I have to say...Im not impressed, and despite the general opinion that this line has been playing much better than any line the Bills have had in years (it doesnt take much does it?) Jason Peters will be the anchor of this line for many years to come, and by all accounts Pennington has looked very good at RT, but the offensive line must be a priority this offseason for Marv and co, and that means not waiting until the second day to select offensive linemen.

[bartshan-83]

Yes it is a priority to upgrade the line. A serious upgrade at RG is crucial. However, I think the line has done better than you give them credit for. The lineup change was made during the bye week. The first two games after that, the line was still adjusting and gelling together. Since that (and coincidentally since we have opened up the offense a little more), they have done a much better job. Not including yesterday's game (since I haven't looked at the stats yet), this is how they have fared:

 

- Since we "opened the offense up" 4 weeks ago, our pass blocking has improved tremendously. In the last 4 games we have averaged 31 passing plays per game and allowed only 7 sacks (sorry Hochuli, not counting that bullsht in the grasp ). This works out to 1 sack per 18 drop backs. In the prior 9 games, we had averaged 28 passing plays and allowed 30 sacks. That works out to 1 sack per 8.5 drop backs.

 

The run blocking has not improved as much as the pass blocking, IMO. But improvement is there and the line will only get better.

[Wraith]

Much has been made of the reworked offensive line and the effect it has had on Losman and the offense, but I don't think people realize exactly how much of an effect the new line has really had.

 

In the 7 games before the bye week the Bills gave up 21 sacks.

Willis McGahee ran 150 times for 564 yards and 3.76 YPC.

 

In the 7 games since the bye week the Bills have given up 20 sacks.

Willis McGahee has run 76 times for 308 yards and 4.0 YPC.

 

I have to say...Im not impressed

871074[/snapback]

 

An interesting topic, no doubt. The PERCEPTION amongst Bills fans is that the offensive line is playing better, at least with pass protection. Available stats say otherwise:

 

Games 1 - 7: 197 Attempts, 21 Sacks, 0.11 sacks/attempt

Games 8 - 14: 164 Attempts, 20 Sacks, 0.12 sacks/attempt

 

So at first blush it appears that Losman is getting sacked at a HIGHER rate since the OLine change than before the change. However:

 

Games 10 - 14: 137 Attempts, 11 Sacks, 0.08 sacks/attempt

 

That stat line is omitting the first two games following the OLine change, against Green Bay and Indianapolis. Remember, in those two games, Buffalo allowed NINE sacks on 27 passing attempts, which is just outrageous. So it's possible that the first two games were a "breaking-in period" for the new OLine set up, and that their play since then is what is affecting people's perception.

 

It's also possible that people's perception is being colored by watching the plays that do NOT result in a sack. There was definitely the perception, pre-bye week, that even on plays that Losman wasn't getting sacked, he was getting harassed and generally had no time to let a play set up. That is not the case in the last 5 games or so. Unfortunately, it's impossible to verify whether these perceptions are facts without going back and watching every game with a stop watch.

Edited December 18, 2006 by Wraith

[Dan]

It's also possible that people's perception is being colored by watching the plays that do NOT result in a sack. There was definitely the perception, pre-bye week, that even on plays that Losman wasn't getting sacked, he was getting harassed and generally had no time to let a play set up. That is not the case in the last 5 games or so. Unfortunately, it's impossible to verify whether these perceptions are facts without going back and watching every game with a stop watch.

871099[/snapback]

 

Definitely cannot be discounted.

[Bill from NYC]

Much has been made of the reworked offensive line and the effect it has had on Losman and the offense, but I don't think people realize exactly how much of an effect the new line has really had.

 

In the 7 games before the bye week the Bills gave up 21 sacks.

Willis McGahee ran 150 times for 564 yards and 3.76 YPC.

 

In the 7 games since the bye week the Bills have given up 20 sacks.

Willis McGahee has run 76 times for 308 yards and 4.0 YPC.

 

I have to say...Im not impressed, and despite the general opinion that this line has been playing much better than any line the Bills have had in years (it doesnt take much does it?) Jason Peters will be the anchor of this line for many years to come, and by all accounts Pennington has looked very good at RT, but the offensive line must be a priority this offseason for Marv and co, and that means not waiting until the second day to select offensive linemen.

871074[/snapback]

 

Are you saying that you don't want Marv to draft another 1st round defensive back?

[MRW]

It's also possible that people's perception is being colored by watching the plays that do NOT result in a sack. There was definitely the perception, pre-bye week, that even on plays that Losman wasn't getting sacked, he was getting harassed and generally had no time to let a play set up. That is not the case in the last 5 games or so. Unfortunately, it's impossible to verify whether these perceptions are facts without going back and watching every game with a stop watch.

871099[/snapback]

That is absolutely the reason I think they're playing better. As you say, it's very difficult to quantify, but my subjective impression is that while Losman may not have an extreme amount of time, he rarely has rushers in his face right after the snap, and he is not taking the devastating blindside hits he was before.

[agilen]

Also remember that after the Colts game, the coaching staff gave JP the green light to tuck it and run. He hasn't used that green light much, but he has used it effectively. I think that has altered defenses thinking, because they can get burned now if they bring too many people in a pass rush.

 

So, maybe its a combo of improved O-line play and "improved" mobility of Losman?

[Bill from NYC]

That is absolutely the reason I think they're playing better.  As you say, it's very difficult to quantify, but my subjective impression is that while Losman may not have an extreme amount of time, he rarely has rushers in his face right after the snap, and he is not taking the devastating blindside hits he was before.

871148[/snapback]

 

This is because Jason Peters is strong enough to push away rushers by getting his hands on them and extending his arms.

Gandy was getting crushed. He was not as strong, had worse footwork, and was less agile than Peters. He probably even weighs a lot less. In short, he was a disaster at LT.

Imo Jason Peters at LT is the most prominent reason for our sudden improvement. I don't even think there is a close second.

[Olaf Fub]

The stat that matters: 5 wins, 2 losses since the bye.

[cmdevisser]

That is absolutely the reason I think they're playing better.  As you say, it's very difficult to quantify, but my subjective impression is that while Losman may not have an extreme amount of time, he rarely has rushers in his face right after the snap, and he is not taking the devastating blindside hits he was before.

871148[/snapback]

 

 

I actually remember thinking the same thing after watching the Miami game, there was one big play Losman made in which he just had all kinds of time (I wish I remember which play it was, I think it was the Royal TD or the 37 yarder to Evans). After the game though, when I saw the stat sheet and realized Losman had been sacked 3 times (Funny because I really only remember the Jason Taylor one) I was really shocked and that's what caused me to look all this up. I think it would be fair to note that Losman is still rarely allowed to roll out of the pocket, and with as many young players on the line as the Bills have, improvement is always nebulous and often hard to measure, but it should be noted that the hype surrounding this o-line is not deserved in my opinion. Just reading the usual post game articles and message board talk one could easily get the impression that the new o-line has been just dominant, and not just at or slightly below average.

[Bill from NYC]

I actually remember thinking the same thing after watching the Miami game, there was one big play Losman made in which he just had all kinds of time (I wish I remember which play it was, I think it was the Royal TD or the 37 yarder to Evans). After the game though, when I saw the stat sheet and realized Losman had been sacked 3 times (Funny because I really only remember the Jason Taylor one) I was really shocked and that's what caused me to look all this up. I think it would be fair to note that Losman is still rarely allowed to roll out of the pocket, and with as many young players on the line as the Bills have, improvement is always nebulous and often hard to measure, but it should be noted that the hype surrounding this o-line is not deserved in my opinion. Just reading the usual post game articles and message board talk one could easily get the impression that the new o-line has been just dominant, and not just at or slightly below average.

871164[/snapback]

 

Everything you say is true, but I make the case that Jason Peters is rapidly approaching dominant.

[Kelly the Dog]

I actually remember thinking the same thing after watching the Miami game, there was one big play Losman made in which he just had all kinds of time (I wish I remember which play it was, I think it was the Royal TD or the 37 yarder to Evans). After the game though, when I saw the stat sheet and realized Losman had been sacked 3 times (Funny because I really only remember the Jason Taylor one) I was really shocked and that's what caused me to look all this up. I think it would be fair to note that Losman is still rarely allowed to roll out of the pocket, and with as many young players on the line as the Bills have, improvement is always nebulous and often hard to measure, but it should be noted that the hype surrounding this o-line is not deserved in my opinion. Just reading the usual post game articles and message board talk one could easily get the impression that the new o-line has been just dominant, and not just at or slightly below average.

871164[/snapback]

The second (total) sack, IIRC, was the play when JP ran up the middle when the pocket collapsed on the first series. I think he lost a yard or so on the play and Zach Thomas got the unnecessary roughness penalty. And then McGahee fumbled the next play. The third sack was the play early on when Crowder I think came in on a blitz completely untouched and totally engulfed Losman before he had any chance at all to even dump the ball off.

[cmdevisser]

The second (total) sack, IIRC, was the play when JP ran up the middle when the pocket collapsed on the first series. I think he lost a yard or so on the play and Zach Thomas got the unnecessary roughness penalty. And then McGahee fumbled the next play. The third sack was the play early on when Crowder I think came in on a blitz completely untouched and totally engulfed Losman before he had any chance at all to even dump the ball off.

871172[/snapback]

 

 

Right, I remember that one (Crowder's sack) that was Preston's blown assignment i believe, as Pennington had cleared out the DE but Preston moved over to help with a DT and just let Crowder slide by.

 

Maybe we just need some new guards? I think that the tackles have been playing very well of late (especially Pennington, who has surprised me)

 

And yes NYC, I agree Peters will be the dominant play maker on the line, the problem is he cant play all 5 positions

[MDH]

Are you saying that you don't want Marv to draft another 1st round defensive back?

871146[/snapback]

 

You know, if Clements leaves that might actually be he best choice based on how things have shaped up the past 6 or so weeks. With no Nate I see CB being a bigger hole than OL at this point and if there are no stud DTs on the board CB wouldn't be a bad choice (obviously depending on who is available).

 

So as much as you've harped on this it might not be an unwise selection.

[Bill from NYC]

And yes NYC, I agree Peters will be the dominant play maker on the line, the problem is he cant play all 5 positions

871174[/snapback]

 

LOL!!!

 

I have been here for close to 9 years or so calling out for more blocking. I would like nothing more than for the Bills to sign Steinbach, plug him in on the left side, and THEN grab an early round RG.

As much as I want Nate to remain on this football team, if given a choice between the 2, I would opt for Steinbach in a heartbeat.

 

Btw, welcome to TSW. You will find this site to be the very best on the internet if your goal is to converse with some diehard fans, many of which (not me mind you) possess a ton of knowledge about football and the Buffalo Bills.

[Ramius]

You know, if Clements leaves that might actually be he best choice based on how things have shaped up the past 6 or so weeks.  With no Nate I see CB being a bigger hole than OL at this point and if there are no stud DTs on the board CB wouldn't be a bad choice (obviously depending on who is available).

 

So as much as you've harped on this it might not be an unwise selection.

871182[/snapback]

 

SHHHHHHHHH!!! pointing out the fact that early round corners often produce good results for a fraction of the salary that FA corners do is not logic that is freely accepted around these parts. Those pointing out this logic are often persecuted and hung. Keep an eye on your mailbox. The underground CB group will contact you with our meeting times.

[34-78-83]

before the bye = no pocket (use your eyes, not stats)

after the bye = a real legitimate NFL pocket (use your eyes, not stats)

run blocking = about the same but they have been more able to convert third, 4th and shorts since the bye.

 

[Bill from NYC]

SHHHHHHHHH!!! pointing out the fact that early round corners often produce good results for a fraction of the salary that FA corners do is not logic that is freely accepted around these parts. Those pointing out this logic are often persecuted and hung.  Keep an eye on your mailbox. The underground CB group will contact you with our meeting times.

871190[/snapback]

 

You ARE funny.

 

Bro, we have been doing this. It hasn't worked. I am not even going to bother linking to drafthistory.com again, because you KNOW it hasn't worked.

 

I WILL say this.....the 06 draft is turning out better than I thought, but it was out and out strange. This draft was actually marked by successful 2nd day picks, which almost never happens.

When I get the energy, I will start a thread about it.

[Ramius]

You ARE funny. 

 

Bro, we have been doing this. It hasn't worked. I am not even going to bother linking to drafthistory.com again, because you KNOW it hasn't worked.

 

I WILL say this.....the 06 draft is turning out better than I thought, but it was out and out strange. This draft was actually marked by successful 2nd day picks, which almost never happens.

When I get the energy, I will start a thread about it.

871204[/snapback]

 

 

Let me add a disclaimer: *I'm not saying that the Bills should spend a R1 pick on a corner. Not at all. I'd rather re-sign nate and be done with it.

 

But, for ANY team with a hole at CB (regardless of holes at other positions), they are better off using a 1st rounder on a corner than spending giant bucks on a FA corner. More bang for the buck. My point is simply about the CB position in general, not about the Bills.

 

Specualting that the bills will be drafting in the 16-20 range, that puts in position to grab an OG in round 1 (the first ones are usually taken 20 or so picks into the draft), or a LB.

[MDH]

You ARE funny. 

 

Bro, we have been doing this. It hasn't worked. I am not even going to bother linking to drafthistory.com again, because you KNOW it hasn't worked.

 

I WILL say this.....the 06 draft is turning out better than I thought, but it was out and out strange. This draft was actually marked by successful 2nd day picks, which almost never happens.

When I get the energy, I will start a thread about it.

871204[/snapback]

 

 

Look at the Bills roster, minus Nate, and tell me that RG or LG is a bigger need than CB right now. I'll agree DT is, but the G spots on O (while still a need) aren't a bigger hole than CB without Nate. The Bills have no one on the roster who can step into a starting CB role right now. Of course, that could change after FA begins, but as of right now CB would be a major need.

 

Without Nate I'd say the Bills biggest needs, in order are:

 

DT

CB

G

WR

LB

TE (though I'm starting to like Royal more and more)

 

With the improved play of the OL one could actually argue that WR is more of a need than G.