Wake up people... this offense is brutal all the

[CircleTheWagons]

JP may or may not be the answer, but I am having a rough time trying to answer this question.

835005[/snapback]

Exactly! Our problem was that we should have used JP's 3 draft picks on offensive lineman. JP may turn out to be a good QB but we have not been the team for the last 15 years to develop a QB.

This was supposed to be the year to find out what JP can do. All I've found out is that he's not as injury prone as I was worried about.

[Rico]

"The line continues to be its worst unit, for the last who knows how many years. That is a result of poor scouting, poor drafting and poor free agent acquisitions. "

 

Poor coaching must also play a role as it also must with the recurrent penalties you mentioned.

834756[/snapback]

When Marv took over as GM, he didn't have a lot of time to make many changes being so close to the draft and the turmoil with the Meathead. But come January 2007, I hope that John Guy, Tom Modrak, and all of the other assclowns left over from the TD regime are sent packing.

 

Except for Chuck Lester, of course.

[Bill from NYC]

This mythical offensive line you yearn for will never be seen here.  It doesn't exist.  I'm sitting here watching the injury riddled Giants blow up the Bears wondeful O-line.  I'm sure some people in Chicago as we speak are saying "if we had a better O-line, we'd win the Bowl for sure!".  http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/OBriKe00.htm

834685[/snapback]

 

I viewed the game in a different way. Whittfield was forced to come in at RT for the giants due to injury and was promptly beaten for a sack/Manning fumble. The game was all but over at that point.

 

Again, NFL coaches have their jobs because they are smart enough at what they do to exploit weaknesses. In college it is probably easier to do this, whereas a guy like Mike Williams is SO strong that he can just beat his opponent up.

 

Wrt the Bills, our weak spots are so obvious that even fans can pick them out, let alone people who do this stuff for a living. All we can do is hope that Marv will bring us a solid draft in 07, and make a play for Steinbach.

 

As for JP, I still really don't know what to think. He has more athletic ability than most qbs out there. I hope he is not ruined before we get a clear look at whether or not he will ever be any good.

[dave mcbride]

I viewed the game in a different way. Whittfield was forced to come in at RT for the giants due to injury and was promptly beaten for a sack/Manning fumble. The game was all but over at that point.

 

Again, NFL coaches have their jobs because they are smart enough at what they do to exploit weaknesses. In college it is probably easier to do this, whereas a guy like Mike Williams is SO strong that he can just beat his opponent up.

 

Wrt the Bills, our weak spots are so obvious that even fans can pick them out, let alone people who do this stuff for a living. All we can do is hope that Marv will bring us a solid draft in 07, and make a play for Steinbach.

 

As for JP, I still really don't know what to think. He has more athletic ability than most qbs out there. I hope he is not ruined before we get a clear look at whether or not he will ever be any good.

835089[/snapback]

i watched whitfield closely after he came in. he was unbelievably terrible - on the plaxico fumble on the five, he had a brutal hold that negated the whole thing. and then he was called for a blatant hold later -- and still didn't stop the sack/fumble!! absolutely horrible - slow, lethargic, you name it. he made terrence pennington look like erik williams in his prime.

[Fan in San Diego]

Good job. I agree.

[ganesh]

I'm completely convinced that free agency and the draft BETTER solve this GLARING problem or this squad will NEVER WIN! Plain and simple!

834689[/snapback]

 

One big reason why the Jets are winning...They fixed their OL via the draft and FA....and thank god for them their starting Center Trey Teague (formerly of the buffalo bills) was injured forcing them to start their rookie center Mangold....

[Bill from NYC]

i watched whitfield closely after he came in. he was unbelievably terrible - on the plaxico fumble on the five, he had a brutal hold that negated the whole thing. and then he was called for a blatant hold later -- and still didn't stop the sack/fumble!! absolutely horrible - slow, lethargic, you name it. he made terrence pennington look like erik williams in his prime.

835211[/snapback]

 

Agreed Dave. It is telling that Whitfield (once a superior OT) still has a job in this league. This serves as a clear indication of just how hard it is to get these guys.

[Dr. K]

This team has some major flaws, without a doubt. But what really kills me are the people on this board who consistently point to JP as the reason this team is horrible offensively. I am not an apologist for this guy. He makes mistakes, like the rest of the offense. But people here lack the ability to analyze the entire offense because they can only get their tiny minds around stats and somehow always use them to make a point about JP. I can make JP look good with numbers if I do what every one around here does… selectively picking the stats that help make my point. For instance…JP has a better QB rating (18th overall) coming into this game than Roethlisberger, Vick, and Leinart. He has a better completion percentage (14th in the league) than E. Manning (actually beats by thousandths of a percent), Carson Palmer, Jake Delhomme, Tom Brady, Brett Favre, Donovan McNabb…. So you look at that stat and you say “Wow, not bad.” And people use that garbage to try to prove a point. And then someone retorts and says “well, he’s 25th in touchdown percentage and tied for 22nd in TDs.” And then the next guy replies “Yeah but his INT percentage is still better than Brady, Hasselback and Grossman.”

 

Stats are what they are, a means for the people who have no other means to support their opinions because they lack a functioning brain capable of understanding how successful organizations, in this case an offense, operate.

 

My point is, a QB can’t be deemed good or bad only on stats. If you want to use stats to make a point, get the stats for all the offense and try to draw a more complete and comprehensive picture of the offense as a whole that allows people to make a judgment based on a wide group of variables. An offense is supposed to be a cohesive unit, a machine. And like any machine, it can’t be deemed efficient and operational based on the analysis and operation of one part.

 

The offenses problems are many.

 

The line continues to be its worst unit, for the last who knows how many years. That is a result of poor scouting, poor drafting and poor free agent acquisitions.

 

The dumb penalties that people in football like to call “discipline” in my opinion are intelligence issues. Being the husband of a special ed teacher, trust me, some people will never learn. They’re called learning disabled (see University of Miami throughout the league as a good example). Penalties that drive me nuts such as off sides, illegal blocks in the back and encroachment are the result of lack of intelligence.

 

Willis McGahee is average, will always be average and his overinflated ego gets in the way of his ability to get better because he thinks he is the best already (He’s a U prodict that I seem to recall had about a 12 on his Wonderlic). The line is partly to blame, but he doesn’t run hard like we saw Thomas do today. He lacks the ability to get outside (lateral quickness). You want stats, we’re 22nd in rushing yards per game. Is that JPs fault too? It’s a combination of poor blocking and average running. If we’re running JP out of town, then take WM with you. Afterall, conventional wisdom says you have to have a good running game to be successful in this league so it’s all WM’s fault right just like it’s JPs fault alone for the passing game troubles. And that’s where the hypocrisy come out on this board, the same people who says it’s all JP’s fault carry the flag for Willis and blame the line for his woes. How can that be?

 

Play calling from GW to MM to DJ has been a joke. Today they’re running on every 3rd and long and they throw on a 3rd and 1? What are you? Conservative? A running first team? What? The lack of wanting to throw on third and long is an indictment of the line, not a lack of confidence in JP or a belief in the running game. It says “Hey, we can’t get the guy enough time to throw, so let’s just run it and hope for the best.” The conservatives lost Tuesday, time to move on and get some balls. And by the way… we do have TEs right? They are on our roster, right? I think the play calling is really killing this team. No creativity, no quick slants for the WR, no use of the TE to open things up. Horrible. They’re handcuffing Losman by forcing him to stand in there. Let him scramble a little, have more roll outs and bootlegs. Keep the LBs honest.

 

I’m not sure on the WRs. I think Evans can be a #1 but we don’t really have a #2 to take the heat off. And the TE position continues to be an afterthought because they’re mainly used to help a porous OL.

 

And as for JP, he has some flaws but flaws aren’t easy corrected when you can’t get comfortable. You can’t sit back in a non-existent pocket, make your reads and find your WR. You can’t complete plays when you get into your 5th or 7th step and can’t plant because you’re OL is being blown up. Sit back and thing about what you’d do if you were the QB on a pass play and had the TEs are blocking for extra protection; Evans is your most reliable and your time is limited. You probably think that your best chance for success given you time is to lock on Evans and force a pass. I’m not making an excuse, I’m saying that I don’t think he locks in because he doesn’t know how to run progressions, I think he locks out of fear of not having time and the need to make a play. When the guy has time and makes his reads, he’s been decent. But this isn’t a great position to learn in with this OL.

 

The best comparison I can think of is Roethlisberger. Guy comes in with a great OL and is asked to manage a team. He gets time, has a good running game and gets confidence and becomes successful. And Denver, a team with a great OL for the last decade or more that cranks out 1000-yard rushers out of guys like Olandis Gary and Mike Anderson.

 

Until the OL is addressed, I don’t care who the QB is, this team will suck. Sure, a veteran QB might make some more plays because they have more experience, but is this s Super Bowl OL or even playoff OL? No way in hell.

 

I could careless if JP stays or goes. This isn’t an OL they’re gonna win with, ever. Bring in Peyton Manning and you still won’t win. But people on this board would blame him anyway because they’re clueless.

 

It ALL starts with an OL. I have always felt that way and always will. Super Bowl teams all have them!

834646[/snapback]

 

 

Great post! Says it all.

[smokinandjokin]

The line is horrible. Nobody would argue that point. Like you said, the entire offense is pathetic, and that starts with the limitations on the OLine. That said, the line is not going to all of the sudden get better this year. There comes a time when you have to go with the guys you've got. My issues:

 

-Why no designed rollouts which create misdirection and move the pocket?

-Why do they rarely seem to put JP in shotgun?

-Why not a designed QB draw or bootleg for Losman? Nothing crazy, maybe one per game. Perhaps he picks up 14 yards on a scamper and it fires him up.

-Why stick with the 15-yard routes when you can't protect? Call some quick slants and allow the passing game to find some rhythm. Does Roscoe play on offense anymore?

-Did they call one screen against the Colts? If the line can't block they might as well let them come through and dump it off.

 

Obviously I'm sure I'm oversymplifying things with those suggestions. But what's the point of taking a defeated attitude by just throwing up our hands and saying "Well, too bad the line sucks." Screw that. Find a way to make it work. Or at least lose trying.

 

The pass protection has been awful, and on the four sacks yesterday, JP never had a prayer. However, it's obvious there are some serious trust issues with the offense, whether they don't trust JP to make the right decision, or they don't trust the line to protect. Whatever it is, it's pathetic to watch.

[apuszczalowski]

The pass protection has been awful, and on the four sacks yesterday, JP never had a prayer.  However, it's obvious there are some serious trust issues with the offense, whether they don't trust JP to make the right decision, or they don't trust the line to protect.  Whatever it is, it's pathetic to watch.

835242[/snapback]

Well if the coaches are saying they stuck with the run because of the lack of pass protection, thats what I am going with because a) they call the plays, and b) because they are the ones in charge. If they thought QB was the problem they would have made the change.

[Realist]

Great post, zonabb!!

 

It makes me sick after nine games, we still don't know anything about Losman. Is he the answer or not? Who knows, because its obvious that he can't be truly evaluated until he has something in front of him. With horrible OL and playcalling so conservative, we are going to go through this entire season knowing nothing new about JP.

 

I was getting so tired of hearing yesterday, "3rd and long draw play to Thomas". You just knew what was going to happen the entire game. Not once did I think Buffalo had a chance in that game.

 

This offseason, the scouting department must be overhauled and McNally needs to be sent packing. For an OLine genius, he has done nothing in his time here.