SACTOBILLSFAN Posted November 5, 2006 Author Share Posted November 5, 2006 Its also unfortunate that JP doesn't have a big physical WR like Plaxico Burress or Chad Johnson where he could just throw the ball up when he's pressured. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Posted November 5, 2006 Share Posted November 5, 2006 Who really cares that we won. We stunk up the place. You are probably one of those that was all excited last year when we won at the end of that pathetic season and blew our chances for picking near the very top of the board. We lost at the end of last year......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Posted November 5, 2006 Share Posted November 5, 2006 I have been the biggest JP apologist before today. I am just sick and tired of watching this offense sputter. No it is not at all completely JPs fault that this offense sucks, but as the QB he has to take some of the blame. As a fan and someone who knows a little bit about football, I see other QBs that have the exact same amount of time in the league doing much more impressive things at this point. Yes coaching is a problem, but we've already been through one coaching staff with JP and we have to stick with this one for a little while just to see how it works out. I was really happy at how JP started the season, but the turnovers (bravo on none today) have become a real issue, and its not just INTs its his inability to protect the football while being hit and when he scrambles. Again, completely his fault? No. But at some point he has to be held accountable for the problems, I hope he proves me wrong by making big strides by the end of the season and he's a stud for a long time, but i really think this is his last season in Buffalo unless he shows some real progress over the next few games. I hope i get to eat some serious crow but I just don't see him as being successful in the NFL. Nice job on that one pass though, and i'll keep rocking my JP jersey until he's off this team. 825851[/snapback] I do agree with so much of your post. I just think it's funny how some people give JP zero credit for anything. He's definitely experiencing growing pains and we can argue for ever about whether his growing pains are better, worse, the same as other QBs. However, I think any reasonable person can say a few things: JP is young and inexperienced; he doesn't see the field like a 5 year vet; he's going to struggle learning a new offense with young players and a questionable line. So, when he struggles we should accept it rather than continually look for another rookie with no experience that might do better on 1 or 2 plays. Most people want to see JP progress. I would argue that his play today showed some flashes of progression. He didn't turn the ball over. He did make a play when he absolutely had to. He moved in the pocket to avoid a hit on more than one play. He hit a few guys on nice plays (but they dropped them). He hit Shelton(?) on the pass out of the backfield in stride. So, he did di some good things, that he's struggled with in the past. He did have troubles. I agree. But, given the offensive line shake up and his inexperience, I'd say that was to be expected. He does need to progress. But, let's give him credit where credit is due. He's done some things that look like a real NFL QB, a fact that some here refuse to acknowledge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SACTOBILLSFAN Posted November 5, 2006 Author Share Posted November 5, 2006 I do agree with so much of your post. I just think it's funny how some people give JP zero credit for anything. He's definitely experiencing growing pains and we can argue for ever about whether his growing pains are better, worse, the same as other QBs. However, I think any reasonable person can say a few things: JP is young and inexperienced; he doesn't see the field like a 5 year vet; he's going to struggle learning a new offense with young players and a questionable line. So, when he struggles we should accept it rather than continually look for another rookie with no experience that might do better on 1 or 2 plays. Most people want to see JP progress. I would argue that his play today showed some flashes of progression. He didn't turn the ball over. He did make a play when he absolutely had to. He moved in the pocket to avoid a hit on more than one play. He hit a few guys on nice plays (but they dropped them). He hit Shelton(?) on the pass out of the backfield in stride. So, he did di some good things, that he's struggled with in the past. He did have troubles. I agree. But, given the offensive line shake up and his inexperience, I'd say that was to be expected. He does need to progress. But, let's give him credit where credit is due. He's done some things that look like a real NFL QB, a fact that some here refuse to acknowledge. 825882[/snapback] The Bills won today so JP should not lose any time in practice or in the game this week. I'm glad he didn't turn the ball over, but he only passed the ball 15 times, and it just seems like this staff doesn't trust him at all. This team is going nowhere this year, so, as someone who doubts JP now, but badly wants to see him succeed, the staff needs to take the training wheels off and let it fly, and leave everything on the field, because until that happens we will never see what JP can do, and whether or not he really is a QB we can build around. I also think its a shame that he was drafted by our Bills, as they neglected to upgrade the line for years, and have 0 playmakers on offense (no Evans is not a playmaker). And if this offense remains as stagnant as they have been then yes chalk me up to the !@#$s that wouldn't mind seeing nall in there for the last few weeks of the season, because screw it, in terms of points and yards it can't get much worse than it has been. Every week i see teams that supposedly have less talent than the Bills put up 30 points on at least one occasion, and today was our highest point total of the season and 7 of those came courtesy of the defense. Its just frustrating as hell to see the writing on the wall that we are becoming the Arizona Cardinals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Posted November 5, 2006 Share Posted November 5, 2006 Again, I agree with much of what you say. It seems JP has alot going against him and not the least of which is the coaching. They're telling him not to run and stay in the pocket. Then the pocket collapses and he gets sacked. They call plays that are questionable, at best. Add that to the piss poor line and receivers not doing their part and you've got a recipe for sucky play. Where we differ is I say leave JP in, period. The only way I say pull him for Nall is if we have a game where everything is clicking and JP is clearly not doing anything. I haven't seen that yet. Every game there's plenty of bad, but there's also a little good - by the entire offense. I'm not sure of the fix, but it would be nice to see an offense show some sort of consistency. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajzepp Posted November 5, 2006 Share Posted November 5, 2006 The Bills won today so JP should not lose any time in practice or in the game this week. I'm glad he didn't turn the ball over, but he only passed the ball 15 times, and it just seems like this staff doesn't trust him at all. This team is going nowhere this year, so, as someone who doubts JP now, but badly wants to see him succeed, the staff needs to take the training wheels off and let it fly, and leave everything on the field, because until that happens we will never see what JP can do, and whether or not he really is a QB we can build around. I also think its a shame that he was drafted by our Bills, as they neglected to upgrade the line for years, and have 0 playmakers on offense (no Evans is not a playmaker). And if this offense remains as stagnant as they have been then yes chalk me up to the !@#$s that wouldn't mind seeing nall in there for the last few weeks of the season, because screw it, in terms of points and yards it can't get much worse than it has been. Every week i see teams that supposedly have less talent than the Bills put up 30 points on at least one occasion, and today was our highest point total of the season and 7 of those came courtesy of the defense. Its just frustrating as hell to see the writing on the wall that we are becoming the Arizona Cardinals. 825898[/snapback] exactly....it's a shame that Mularkey and Co. screwed the pooch last year and basically wasted the season. But this year we've got to be willing to try anyone and everyone who may be able to help this team. Nobody is saying bench JP for the rest of the season. Let him continue to be the starter all the way thru game 16....but when he struggles as much as he apparently did today, give him a break and let someone else take a shot at giving us a spark. JP may not be the sharpest knife in the drawer, but he's not stupid. Sometimes if you just take him aside, let him get his perspective back when thngis are not going well, he'll respond to that and come out blazing when he goes back in. I don't see any reason why we can't give Nall an opportunity when it presents itself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zow2 Posted November 6, 2006 Share Posted November 6, 2006 Yep that sums it up. The only thing JP can do that will make many of these idiots happy is sell his house and leave town. Then they'll get another QB to rag on and call out for not catching his own passes after he blocks the blitzing db. 825844[/snapback] Nobody is trying to run JP out of town. We all want him to succeed. I'm happy he made no turnovers today and hit the big TD pass in the 4th. In between though he was pretty bad. Even you have to admit that. He had that one big one dropped by Royal. Other than that he misread the D a few times...threw a few poor passes and held on to the ball too long again on several plays. Yes the O-line is weak but i watch all the games i can and many QB's have the same amount of time as JP and do more with it. JP cannot read a defense. If you can't see that then you haven't watched much football. This leads to indecision and sacks that might appear to be the O-line's fault but the QB has to take 80% of the blame for not being able to get the ball off. I hope for the sake of all of us he gets better soon because that was a pretty weak game today for him. It's pretty sad when we are happy because he doesn't do anything to lose it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajzepp Posted November 6, 2006 Share Posted November 6, 2006 It's pretty sad when we are happy because he doesn't do anything to lose it. 825994[/snapback] Bingo.....cause while it's all fine and dandy when the D and ST step up and basically make it okay for the QB to "not lose it", it won't hold true week in and week out. Part of what comes along with putting up with the mistakes of a young QB is having games where he's throwing for lots of yards and scorign TDs. We won't win many games passing for 60 or 70 yards, even if Willis all of a sudden goes apeshit and our running game gets going. Sooner or later we need more production out of this offense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted November 6, 2006 Share Posted November 6, 2006 You retards...In the end, there's only ONE stat that matters: a W. we won. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EC-Bills Posted November 6, 2006 Share Posted November 6, 2006 You retards...In the end, there's only ONE stat that matters: a W. we won. 826015[/snapback] Good luck in getting through to these folks. Too many sandy v*gina's around here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted November 6, 2006 Share Posted November 6, 2006 Good luck in getting through to these folks. Too many sandy v*gina's around here. 826020[/snapback] Yeah. I would argue JP outplayed favre. One niggling point: WTF won't the coaches call more three-step slant plays? Every drop was like 5 or 7 stops. Not a good idea with this OL. Oh, and WILLIS WHO? Time to get splinters in the ass to go with your other injury, Willis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pirate Angel Posted November 6, 2006 Share Posted November 6, 2006 The trend over the past four or five seasons has been this: When people who have supported this guy or that guy all along begin to lose faith and withdraw their support, a change at OBD usually takes place. I wanted JP to succeed as much as anyone....but even though it's not all his fault, we need to see what other folks on the team can do. Nall was brought in here for a reason....I think it's time to see if that decision will bear fruit. 825402[/snapback] Why focus the changes just on JP, A train runs alot harder than Willis TKO doesnt seem to be doing jack since his return, why jnot reyes or anybody for villarial or Pennington or fowler, Or TEs dont exist Evans gets doubled and no one else can get open so why just focus on a change a QB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkady Renko Posted November 6, 2006 Share Posted November 6, 2006 The same logic used here would have kept Todd Collins and Rob Johnson as starting QBs for the Bills. The problem to me is that the guy is getting worse. He shows flashes that makes you hope, but he just can't get over the hump. The reason the guy is still starting is because of his draft position and his supposed potential. Take both of those away and he would have been benched awhile ago. I don't think the guy should be benched just yet, but it's not laughable as much as the Kool-Aid drinkers here think it is. Yeah the line sucks, but sometimes the QBs make the line seem worse. Get sacked from a long-developing, rush up the middle is not the line's fault. Locking in on a WR is not the WR's fault. How bad does the line look in Dallas without Bledsoe there? How much better did the Bills offense and line look when Rob Johnson was benched? Here's the thing. It's not the time for the Bills to bench Losman and the reason is all Mularkey's fault. You can bench a young starting QB once and he can still rebound. Do it twice and then you are through with the guy--bringing him back gives you no credibility. I will trust the coaches to be patient on this and do what is right. But Losman's training period is beginning to end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeSpeed Posted November 6, 2006 Share Posted November 6, 2006 Yeah. I would argue JP outplayed favre. One niggling point: WTF won't the coaches call more three-step slant plays? Every drop was like 5 or 7 stops. Not a good idea with this OL. Oh, and WILLIS WHO? Time to get splinters in the ass to go with your other injury, Willis. 826021[/snapback] I just read this whole thread, and finally someone got to the point I was going to make. We may as well have Bledsoe back because the defensive ends know exactly where JP is going to be when he takes the snap. Also what ever happened to screens and draws? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1billsfan Posted November 6, 2006 Share Posted November 6, 2006 I don't see any reason why we can't give Nall an opportunity when it presents itself. 825914[/snapback] TO GIVE THE STARTING QB THE CHANCE TO WIN THE GAME IN THE FOURTH QUARTER!! That would be the reason. Sorry for the caps but I feared you'd miss something that's not pretty clear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJ1 Posted November 6, 2006 Share Posted November 6, 2006 I have also been a supporter for a long time but I have had enough. I think we have seen this kid best and it just is not good enough. We know what Holcolm can do, maybe it is time to see if Nall has any game. By the end of the season I expect Nall will get some game action because we have to find an answer to the QB question. 825770[/snapback] Pretty hard for Nall to get into a game because he is 3rd efing string. If Losman comes out Kelly goes in you, I won't call you a retard but you most likely are. If Nall plays, the other 2 qbs would have to be injured. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wraith Posted November 6, 2006 Share Posted November 6, 2006 Did any of you actually watch the game? I was at the game and had a great view of the field. The Bills were INCREDIBLY conservative on offense, going max protect about 2/3rds of the time. There were only two receivers going out for passes during that time. The Packers had no trouble defending those two wide receivers because they were generating plenty of pass rush with their front four. Most of the time there wasn't even a RB as a safety valve because they were pass blocking. I saw three times where they triple teamed Kampan (LT, TE, RB). Losman only threw 15 passes, and only twice were the receivers actually open (Evans both time, one was underthrown, one was the TD). He had no turnovers and hit the game winning TD from 43 yards out while getting CRUSHED by a defender. In addition, twice he put the offense in a 3rd and <1 position and the running game failed. Be reasonable. The Bills gameplan on both sides of the ball was incredibly conservative, not making any mistakes, not giving the Packers good field position, making them go the length of the field and waiting for Favre to make a mistake. It seemed to work pretty well.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SACTOBILLSFAN Posted November 6, 2006 Author Share Posted November 6, 2006 You retards...In the end, there's only ONE stat that matters: a W. we won. 826015[/snapback] Yes we won. And we've won 3........and lost 5. THAT is the bottom line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JStranger76 Posted November 6, 2006 Share Posted November 6, 2006 It won't work very often though. For having so much max protction you figure he would throw it away more knowing only 2 guys are running a pattern as well. All I know is JP is all we got and I hope he eventually gets it cause I sure as hell don't want Holbum in there. As for Nall, nobody has a clue whatsoever what he can do but I doubt it would get me hard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wraith Posted November 6, 2006 Share Posted November 6, 2006 It won't work very often though. For having so much max protction you figure he would throw it away more knowing only 2 guys are running a pattern as well. All I know is JP is all we got and I hope he eventually gets it cause I sure as hell don't want Holbum in there. As for Nall, nobody has a clue whatsoever what he can do but I doubt it would get me hard. 826165[/snapback] I don't understand your logic. If you have max protection and two receivers, by default you have to wait longer for them to get open and should feel more comfortable doing so, seeing as how you have max protection. In addition, two of the sacks on Losman occurred after his own man was thrown into his legs. My only complaint with Losman today was what seemed to be a large amount of tipped passes in the second half. Not sure what the deal there was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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