Finally got my question to Mort!

[Buftex]

I agree with what Mort says, but at the same time, I know for a fact, TD played a large role in creating the dysfunctional atmosphere that enveloped the franchise the past two years...I am pretty sure Mort knows that too....

 

I fully expect TD to be a GM in the NFL next year, and I believe he will succeed...I think he is likely intelligent enough to learn from the myraid of personal miscalculations he made in Buffalo.

[2003Contenders]

Mort is surely not fair, and is surely one-sided. He's sticking up for his friend because he sees his friend getting an inordinate amount of heat. Granted, a journalist in theory shouldn't have friends like that but this is the real world and their job depends on it. So when he sees what he considers to be a gross injustice, he goes out of his way to defend the guy.  In this commentary we're referencing though, he is very fair. It isn't totally bashing Marv or ball-washing TD. It's pointing out some observations, most of which I agree with, too.

 

So his commentary yes, should be taken in context. He's right in his general thesis though, IMO. People do not give enough credit to Donohoe for this Bills team. That statement IN NO WAY says TD is great, or that TD's tenure didn't grossly fail, or that he shouldn't be gone. It only shows that things are not black and white. TD did some good and very good things, he did some bad and very bad things. We're much better off now that he is gone, but he deserves some of the credit for what is going on now, too. Two things can happen simulataneously in this world, you know.

795303[/snapback]

 

You hit the nail right on the head!

 

The funny thing is that after the 2002 season, most Bills fans were ready to cannonize TD. I firmly believe that the real turning point in terms of fan and media support came on that day, when he announced that GW was not coming back for 2004. He more or less called out the fans for being overly critical. At that point he pretty much lost the PR battle in Buffalo forever more.

 

I think if you were to do a pros and cons analysis, you would probably discover that all in all TD probably did more good things than bad things during his tenure as GM of the Bills. However, the fact that the team made ZERO trips to the playoffs during his 5 years as GM justifies why he is no longer here.

 

One other thing that we'll never know is: How much control did TD really have? Did he really have the final say on all draft picks? Did he encourage the coaches to determine who played and who didn't? Did he influence assistant hirings? How much did Ralph tie his hands (in terms of compensation for coaches, for example)?

 

It remains to be seen what kind of GM ol' Marv will be in the long run, but I really like the "we are family" attitude that the entire organization seems to have right now.

[dave mcbride]

Mort is surely not fair, and is surely one-sided. He's sticking up for his friend because he sees his friend getting an inordinate amount of heat. Granted, a journalist in theory shouldn't have friends like that but this is the real world and their job depends on it. So when he sees what he considers to be a gross injustice, he goes out of his way to defend the guy.  In this commentary we're referencing though, he is very fair. It isn't totally bashing Marv or ball-washing TD. It's pointing out some observations, most of which I agree with, too.

 

So his commentary yes, should be taken in context. He's right in his general thesis though, IMO. People do not give enough credit to Donohoe for this Bills team. That statement IN NO WAY says TD is great, or that TD's tenure didn't grossly fail, or that he shouldn't be gone. It only shows that things are not black and white. TD did some good and very good things, he did some bad and very bad things. We're much better off now that he is gone, but he deserves some of the credit for what is going on now, too. Two things can happen simulataneously in this world, you know.

795303[/snapback]

 

i agree with you.

[ganesh]

Actually what he said was that Modrak was responsible for drafting them, which was a TD guy, and very highly likely true. And John Guy who went after the free agents was a TD guy, too. And he commended Marv for signing Jauron, who in turn got the two new coordinators who have done very well so far, which is very true, also. In fact, objectively, that was a very fair and right on response.

795138[/snapback]

 

Except that TD was given 5 years to right the ship and he FAILED. I don't understand why these media guys don't think that is FAIR and not ONE-SIDED.

 

Also, it is not enough to draft the players alone...you need to put them in position to make plays....The fact that these guys are playign at high level this year indicates to me the ability of Marv/Jauron to get the good out of these players.

 

Every outgoing GM/Personnel is going to leave a core bunch of players. A NFL team cannot just get rid of all the 53 players and get new ones. Even when Donahoe came in, we still had Moulds, Reuben Brown, Reimersma, Peerless Price on offense and Wiley, Winfield, Holocek, Sam Cowart, Pat Williams on defense.

[ganesh]

Mort is surely not fair, and is surely one-sided. He's sticking up for his friend because he sees his friend getting an inordinate amount of heat. Granted, a journalist in theory shouldn't have friends like that but this is the real world and their job depends on it. So when he sees what he considers to be a gross injustice, he goes out of his way to defend the guy.  In this commentary we're referencing though, he is very fair. It isn't totally bashing Marv or ball-washing TD. It's pointing out some observations, most of which I agree with, too.

 

So his commentary yes, should be taken in context. He's right in his general thesis though, IMO. People do not give enough credit to Donohoe for this Bills team. That statement IN NO WAY says TD is great, or that TD's tenure didn't grossly fail, or that he shouldn't be gone. It only shows that things are not black and white. TD did some good and very good things, he did some bad and very bad things. We're much better off now that he is gone, but he deserves some of the credit for what is going on now, too. Two things can happen simulataneously in this world, you know.

795303[/snapback]

 

If people continue to criticize Losman, McGahee, Clements, Schoebel, etc...performance then it is fair to say that TD is not getting his due. However, the last time I checked the people of Buffalo are right behind all these players....So in what ways is not crediting TD.

[ganesh]

I agree with what Mort says, but at the same time, I know for a fact, TD played a large role in creating the dysfunctional atmosphere that enveloped the franchise the past two years...I am pretty sure Mort knows that too....

 

I fully expect TD to be a GM in the NFL next year, and I believe he will succeed...I think he is likely intelligent enough to learn from the myraid of personal miscalculations he made in Buffalo.

795316[/snapback]

 

Until he can fix the coaching staf in a honest way, he will not be able to succeed.

[NavyBillsFan]

Did you honestly start your question with the words "how come"?

 

Way to contribute to the stereotype that WNYers are hillbillys with nothing to do but drink and watch football. Well, that stereotype is true, but we didn't need your help adding to it.

 

I mean, I know many of my posts have typos, but you had to have proofread that before sending it to Mort, no?

795314[/snapback]

 

 

Yeah, because Mort is going to decide on heaven or hell for you...

[Pyrite Gal]

I think the problem is here that folks seem to take a Fox News view of the world that things are all one way or they are all the other way.

 

Reality is not like that and is really far more accurately described by a nuanced view.

 

Some Bills fans come off as crazed because they do refuse to admit that TD did a number of things right in his 5 years here and actually did a number of things very well and far better than other GMs (he really pulled off some great trades like tagging PP and getting s 1st for him, showing steeely eye nerve in waiting to get a 1st day draft pick for Henry, negotiating some great deals gettoing players for less than they were offered elsewhere apparently or might get on the free market and a set of business deals for the Bills that moved us into the 21st century.

 

HOWEVER, despite this episodic good and even great work, he erred badly in hiring GW and the buck stops with him over the dysfunctional unit which was rarely a team (much less a TEAM) during his tenure here. Overall, his recprd os simply one of failure becaise team failed to make the playoffs in any of his 5 years. End of story.

 

However, some chose to diverge from reality by falsely claiming that everything he did here was bad when it was not. Claims like he was a bad drafter (MW was a bust but his other work was pretty good generally) or that anyone can cut people so his getting us out of cap hell at least a year earlier than most expected simply are unproven by an analysis of the facts.

 

Lest Mort thinks tht this indictment exonerates him, on the contrary. He seems to be guilty of trying to choose facts to fit his pre-ordained notions. He seemed more than willing to throw Lwvy under the bus just after draft day and now that this draft has yielded a bunch of players who are able to start immediately for a .500 team he nows seems to want to give Modrak the credit rather than TDs successor. Fine if he likes TD and actually wants to give him credit for the good things he did do here.

 

However, if Mort expects to be believable in doing this, he also should acknowldged TDs errors which play a central role in this team failing to make the playoffs during his reign. One cannot both correctly recognize that he deserves credit for getting us out of cap hell and finishing .500 in his second season, but then somehow want to emphasize the salary cap issues for our horrid performance in his 3rd and 5th years. This makes no sense.

 

Further, his failure to give Marv any credit for this draft simply comes off as sour grapes.

 

Us fans can be as stupid as we want to be and should be forgiven actually. However, as a journalist, I know he wants to maintain a good relationship with a good source but his bending of reality makes him come off like a fan than a good reporter.

[Kelly the Dog]

Until he can fix the coaching staf in a honest way, he will not be able to succeed.

795562[/snapback]

He made mistakes in coaching. I think most everyone agrees with that (with the possible exception of Mort). It's not an exact science, and outside of the Steelers, there isn't one team let alone GM in the entire league that has made two straight good head coaching hires.

 

TD did, however, hire Cowher so he isn't totally stupid. John Fox himself said he didn't do well in his interview and wasn't ready to take the Bills job. I think most people close to this situation feel we had no chance to get Marvin Lewis. Gregg Williams is indeed a hot commodity, and even I think will be a damn good head coach sometime. He wasn't ready when he was the Bills coach. TD did have some say, I would imagine, in hiring Bobby April, whom virtually everyone on this board thinks is the very best in the league at his job.

[I 90]

Chris Mortensen: (11:58 AM ET ). Don't believe that Levy was involved that much in this draft because he wans't up to snuff .

795106[/snapback]

 

Uh, O.K. Mort.

 

So drafting five defensive players in a row wasn't outside the box thinking ? Just so happened that they were the " best player available" on Modrak's list ? Marv is clearly a man with a definite plan, you pantload.

 

.

[2003Contenders]

Uh, O.K. Mort.

 

So drafting five defensive players in a row wasn't outside the box thinking ? Just so happened that they were the " best player available" on Modrak's list ? Marv is clearly a man with a definite plan, you pantload.

 

.

795583[/snapback]

 

 

I could be wrong, but I took Mort's coment about "up to snuff" to mean that, since Marv had been on the job for such a short time, he had to defer much of what went into making up the ultimate draft board to the guys (like Modrak) who were hold-overs from the previous regime.

[BuffaloBilliever]

Who's Denny?

 

Yeah Mort, way to be up to date with names, dumb f*#$@r

[Brandon]

Speaking of one-sided, someone should ask Mort why Levy's Bills are playing respectably, when Donahoe's teams couldn't, despite having a similar roster.

[/dev/null]

Next week you should ask him between belichek and donahoe, which one has a tastier knob

[RJsackedagain]

It seems strange that he calls out Buffalo fans for not giving Donahoe and credit, even after you gave him some credit in your question.  For the most part, it seems like the fans have moved on from this whole deal.  I wish Mort would do the same.

795179[/snapback]

How can he move on?? TD cuts his grass once a week and then they head out for ring dings and pepsi down in a park in Georgia.

[I 90]

I could be wrong, but I took Mort's coment about "up to snuff" to mean that, since Marv had been on the job for such a short time, he had to defer...

795603[/snapback]

 

Mort made a lazy, lazy comment. It is one thing to question Marv for not trading down, another to question him for trading up... but to characterize our GM as not "up to snuff" ? Marv was active and picked the players that fit his vision. No other team picked five consecutive defensive players at the top of their draft.

 

.

[N.Y. Orangeman]

I don't know what is more disturbing:

 

A. The rage that TD inspires;

B. The verbal jihad against ESPN that the mention of Mort brings to the board; or

C. The blind faith in an ex-coach turned GM espoused by fellow posters based upon (gasp) a .500 start.

 

[Dibs]

The part that is not right on is the part where he says "lets be fair and not so one sided" b/c that is exactly what he is.  Supporting TD and mostly bashing Levy during the Draft.  Hmmm.  If Levy was not up to snuff and he does not deserve the majority of the credit for this seemily very good draft then why did mort and company (Clayton) criticize him back in April for a "very suspect" draft.  ....

795168[/snapback]

Excellent point!

This shows obvious agenda to Morts comments.

[Beerball]

Dan (New York, NY): Chris, howcome you can't talk about the Bills without mentioning Tom Donahoe? He had 5 years to get things working in buffalo, and failed year after year. He drafted some of the right guys, but the coaches he hired were failures and the schemes they used didn't utilize their players' talents. How about commenting on Levy, Modrak, and Juaron a little bit?

 

Chris Mortensen: (11:58 AM ET ) I am going to do something on the Bills in my blog this week. I can't believe that Buffalo folks aren't willing to give credit to Donohoe for at least inheriting a team with a salary cap mess, a quarterback mess and then putting together some pretty good talent. Don't believe that Levy was involved that much in this draft because he wans't up to snuff but I give Marv a lot of credir for hiring Jauron, who hired his own good staff. Mularkey did win his first year, by the way, and Levy wanted him back. Greg Williams was everybody's hot coach last winter. I'm not saying Donohoe was perfect but nobody is and it's ridiculous that people won't acknowledge that he does deserve credit the Bills' promise right now - Losman, McGahee, Evans, Reed, Parrish, Fletcher, Kelsay, Denny, Clements, McGee, etc. He also hired Modrak, by the way. I hope it all works out for the Bills but let's be fair and not one-sided.

795106[/snapback]

Jesus, that's really bad.

[Dibs]

Mort is surely not fair, and is surely one-sided. He's sticking up for his friend because he sees his friend getting an inordinate amount of heat. Granted, a journalist in theory shouldn't have friends like that but this is the real world and their job depends on it. So when he sees what he considers to be a gross injustice, he goes out of his way to defend the guy.  In this commentary we're referencing though, he is very fair. It isn't totally bashing Marv or ball-washing TD. It's pointing out some observations, most of which I agree with, too.

 

So his commentary yes, should be taken in context. He's right in his general thesis though, IMO. People do not give enough credit to Donohoe for this Bills team. That statement IN NO WAY says TD is great, or that TD's tenure didn't grossly fail, or that he shouldn't be gone. It only shows that things are not black and white. TD did some good and very good things, he did some bad and very bad things. We're much better off now that he is gone, but he deserves some of the credit for what is going on now, too. Two things can happen simulataneously in this world, you know.

795303[/snapback]

Inordinate amount of heat?

Really?

Where from?

I might be right off base hear since I don't get the level of media coverage that you guys do but......who talks about TD now apart from Mort? Most GMs are not mentioned when they have GM jobs, how does TD remain in any way relevant to the national media? If we get to the playoffs it might be relevant to mention him....might....but without agenda, TD simply should be sooooo far down the list of things to talk about on the national media that he would never be raised.

Hell, we can't even get the media to talk about JP or WM for more than 10 seconds.

 

Mort has successfully changed the ground-rules to enable TDs name back into the lime-light. It does not matter what his arguments end up being, the discussion should not really be taking place. If he wants to defend his 'friend' from Bills fans, he should come onto the Bills media(or forums) to do it, not use his position at ESPN to do so when it is not warranted.

I see no 'media' guy sticking up for DJ in relation to the heat he takes from the Bears fans.

......& Kelly, Mort was not 'very fair'. He is biased in his assessments & his actions in recent past....re:Marv etc.(see TDRupps post #12). He made some very good points which were on the money(IMO) but he does not act in a fair manner in regards to TD.....sort of the opposite to a lot of posters here.